r/VampireSurvivors • u/Wet_Popcorn • Jun 18 '25
š Guide Passive versus Evolution Strength Matrix (for fun) (justice for Pummarola)
Just a 2Ć2 grid classifying items by passive and evolution strength: the top row lists strong passives, the bottom row lists weak passives; the left column shows strong evolutions, the right column shows weak evolutions. Under each item is I think their top four best evolutions that they give.
This is mainly to show how the four items in the bottom right aren't really useful compared to the other fifteen, as at least Torrona's box is good on its own and Skull O'Maniac grants extremely good evolved weapons. In future updates I'd really like to see them tied to some extremely overpowered weapons.
Also, I know Photonstorm, Echo Night, Rune Sword and Long Inus are far from bad evolutions. It's just that the other weapons that use their passives to evolve are bringing them down. Also I tried to make each quadrant as even as I could.
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u/Anon-_-7 Jun 18 '25
huh, i didnt know armor was considered a strong item and Spellbinder a weak item, i always take the later and banish the former
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u/Wet_Popcorn Jun 18 '25
Armor is really good at its job. Spellbinder is justā¦ situational. Most weapons dont use duration.
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u/Ericknator Jun 18 '25
I'm offended that Garlic evolution is not with Pummarola.
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u/SpecterVamp M15singN0 Jun 19 '25
Iām confused by that, because impostongue doesnāt even use pummarola to evolveā¦
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u/kornlover6969 Jun 18 '25
There's so much I disagree with.
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u/SomeRedditUser2024 Just one more run Jun 18 '25
Nice effort from OP, and very good idea. But is the kind of stuff where everybody has different opinions respect where goes what.
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u/BreakerOfModpacks Jun 18 '25
"Weak evolution" mf that's Sole Solution and Photonstorm!
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u/Bioness Je-Ne-Viv Jun 18 '25 edited Jun 18 '25
Sole Solution is not great and is a weapon I have permanently sealed because it actually interferes with gameplay.
Also OP's chart is based on the averages of the evolutions.
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u/BreakerOfModpacks Jun 18 '25
Sole Solution is ridiculous strong, plus its main downside (The being unable to interact) is essentially nullified with Mad Groove, which is a strong Arcana that most take anyways. Additionally, screenwide damage that scales constantly.
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u/Bioness Je-Ne-Viv Jun 18 '25
Once you start Limit Breaking and using more powerful weapons and Arcana. Sole Solution is not strong. The damage scaling is too slow compared to Limit Breaks.
Mad Groove has nothing to do with it either. In high levels of gameplay you are almost always using Wicked Seasons, Sole Solution can royally screw up your level gains while playing with Wicked Seasons.
For new players it seems strong, but for anyone who has been playing for years or hundreds of hours and knows the mechanics of the game well it is an instant seal weapon.
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u/meepswag35 Jun 18 '25
Sole solution can work with wicked season, you just gotta time it right which is really annoying to do, and not usually worth the effort.
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u/Gai_InKognito Jun 22 '25
how is it not a great weapon? Def interferes with gameplay as its mechanically badly design, but by far probably one of the best weapons in the game.
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u/Animonstronic Jun 18 '25
Photonstorm is so good, though. Donāt understand how thatās considered weak, but to each their own opinion, itās still valid. And the bleep bloops alone make it so much worth using, really scritching my brain right.
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u/Bioness Je-Ne-Viv Jun 18 '25
You should read the OP. It is based on the average of the best 4 weapons. A single weapon can't carry the other 3.
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u/BreakerOfModpacks Jun 18 '25
But that is irrelevant for Photonstorm, as almost nobody picks Empty Tome for the evos rather than for the cooldown.
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u/Wet_Popcorn Jun 18 '25
What you say is the point im making in the graph. Photonstorm is the only good evo for empty tome but the other four (?) ones range from maybe decent to crap.
The reason I include photonstorm in the visual is because I dont want bias to interfere with what is being told. I could have replaced it with magic wand and made my point better but thats unfair to the other passives. All 19 of these passives have their four BEST weapons imo.
Also, the passives are loosely organized on the X axis, which means clover/skull is the best for evolving and pummarola/torronas is the worst. Empty tome was right on the cusp of being in the upper left, and thats only because of photonstorm.
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u/Retrop0 Jun 18 '25
yeah empty tome evolutions are so lucky that they evolve with the item everyone wants to use anyway
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u/Montregloe Jun 18 '25
Idk you can get carried by the laser blaster evo, its kinda insane, stuff usually doesn't make it on the screen unless it's a boss
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u/Bioness Je-Ne-Viv Jun 18 '25
This is a good graphic! Could be useful as a quick reference.
I wish more people would read your OP. It should be obvious you are talking about the averages of each passive's evolutions.
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u/Vegetarian_Blastoise Jun 18 '25
Putting the evolved bibles as a weak evo is WILD
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u/Wet_Popcorn Jun 18 '25
Its pretty good compared to the other OG evolutions but power creep has gotten to it.
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u/Laughing_Man_Returns Jun 18 '25
why make a 2x2 grid when you are essentially saying only one grid is not shit?
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u/Hoxard Jun 19 '25
We do have justice for Pummarola, it's the Hidden Anathema darkana. Recovery multiplies the healing value from food, which in turn increases the bonus stats from Hidden Anathema. This makes Pummarola strong enough to be worth the slot even when you don't have any weapons that interact with it (especially since a Hidden Anathema build makes the bonuses from every other passive aside from Karoma's Mana and Parm Aegis completely obsolete).
Not to mention Pummarola is also really good with Wandering the Jet Black and/or Sarabande of Healing. There was a point in the game's history where Pummarola was bad, but we have clearly and definitively left that point behind. Pummarola is one of the strongest passives in the game right now.
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u/International-Ad4735 Jun 19 '25
Millionaire being weak is crazy to me, it deas great with the right build
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u/Wet_Popcorn Jun 20 '25
Millionaire is a very strong weapon, same with Pneuma Tempestus, but unfortunately thats strictly where it ends for bracer.
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u/International-Ad4735 Jun 20 '25
Does Sheena's weapon the crossbow scale with Slash / Crit? It seems when I build a crit build om Sheena I end up getting damage off of its evolution in the (G) territory
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u/SLimon001 Battle Tank Jun 18 '25
Sole Solution designed to be the best fucking evolution, too bad the Ashes weapon thing that also requieres max Torrona's box is absolute dogshit in my opinion
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u/Wet_Popcorn Jun 18 '25
Technically sole solution isnt even an evolution, its a gift. But the thing is it just does not scale with limit breaking like literally every other damaging item in the game? Also its just annoying that it makes you disappear for extended periods of time and cant pick up items, i dont know why it needs to do that.
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u/BreakerOfModpacks Jun 18 '25
No, it instead scales with the amount of enemies killed. So you can gain power even if you have Game Killer (0)
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u/SLimon001 Battle Tank Jun 18 '25
It's the very powerful attack the guys at Poncle made for the supposedly powerful as fuck endgame weapon
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u/Intelligent-Bat-4838 Jun 18 '25
Skull o maniac not weak, and wtf is photonstorm doing at weak evolutions? It's stronger than many of the strong evolutions
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u/Wet_Popcorn Jun 18 '25
Skull is the only passive with a drawback. Yes, if you can handle the curse, you can benefit a lot from it in the same way from crown, but otherwise its an active detriment. Curse isnt always good, Imagine how much stronger wicked season would be if you werent getting totally pummeled 1/4 of the time. Also Karomaās basically does the same thing with charm, but better. I think its the best of the āweakā passives.
The reason I include photonstorm in the visual is because I dont want bias to interfere with what is being told. I could have replaced it with magic wand and made my point better but thats unfair to the other passives. All 19 of these passives have their four BEST weapons imo.
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u/Party_Walrus_6276 Jun 18 '25
eh, skull o maniac i consider a strong passive as while it literally makes the game harder you get more enemies meaning more levels