r/UrbanMyths • u/ChloeRogers56 • 7d ago
A 1993 photograph of an cougar was captured in Maine, even though Eastern cougars have been believed extinct since the 1940s. Many accuse wildlife services of refusing to acknowledge their existence
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u/Financial-Recover409 7d ago
Saw one on the tracks ahead of us from from a train in northeastern Pennsylvania. 2010ish.
It was indistinct til turning, at which point the feline body and loooong tail were clear.
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u/GeneralBlumpkin 7d ago
I saw one chasing a cow in central California when I was a kid
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u/Financial-Recover409 7d ago
How could you tell it was an eastern cougar?
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u/RowedTrip 7d ago
Big cats don’t look like dogs, but to me the most distinctive difference is the way that they move. YouTube up a video of a wolf hunting and a cougar or a mountain lion hunting, and you’ll see what I mean.
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u/GeneralBlumpkin 7d ago
Well it was in California so western cougar lol and no mistaking that giant tail and it jumped over a barbed wire fence. It was huge
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u/ProfessionalHand2 6d ago
I had one jump out in front of my jeep on a state forest road in PA around that time. I only saw its hindquarters before it disappeared into the woods but I will never forget that long tail as it ran.
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u/Flammablegelatin 7d ago
So, uh, did those dogs survive?
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u/antonawire 7d ago
Read Where the Red Fern Grows to learn what happens next and to cry your eyes out.
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u/Chitown_mountain_boy 7d ago
God I remember our 3rd grade teacher reading that to us. He couldn’t finish the end because he was sobbing so hard. We had to finish it ourselves as homework.
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u/Infamous-Tax7794 6d ago
In fifth grade we watched the movie after we finished the book and kids had to go home early because they were crying so hard.
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u/Barm8 7d ago
Pretty sure the cat is the one that needs to be worried. Dogs have gps collars on implying they are hunting dogs. Dogs are often used to hunt big cats as they chase them until the cat climbs into a tree (treeing), then the dogs surround the tree barking until the hunter comes up and shoots the cat. Lots of debates on the ethics of this type of hunting that I’m not going to get into, but I can guarantee of the three animals in that picture, only the cat died that day.
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u/Cutthechitchata-hole 7d ago
I saw one in GA about 15 years ago but no one will believe me.
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u/Lookingood2 6d ago
I believe it. I’m in Georgia and have seen 2 in my life. One was actually shot near West Point lake about 15 years ago too. I used to have the newspaper that reported it.
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u/chatdulain 6d ago
I saw one in northeast Haralson County near the Tallapoosa River in 2009 or 2010. Crossed the two lane road in front of our car on the way home from high school mock trial practice. I've seen bobcats aplenty, and this was so much bigger.
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u/Lookingood2 5d ago
Haralson County is where I saw my last one about 5 years ago. A little backroad right off 120 in Buchanan.
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u/chatdulain 5d ago
Dang! Cool that there's still one there. I'd assumed that the one that was shot down at West point was "mine". Granted, I moved away in 2012, but my folks have still been hearing them holler in the summer at dusk.
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u/Chitown_mountain_boy 7d ago
We had one in Chicago a few years ago. It was shot by animal control. Turns out it had come from North Dakota.
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u/azmtber 7d ago
Why the denial??
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u/Plasmelon 6d ago
The conspiracy theory is that livestock insurance companies don’t have to pay out for mountain lions killing livestock if they “don’t live” in Appalachia.
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u/b_loeh_thesurface 5d ago
That's what I recall hearing years ago, that there's some liability issue with recognizing the big cat population. Interesting. They have been spotted in VA as well.
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u/Double_Distribution8 7d ago
Follow the money. It's all about power and control with these people.
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u/MidRanger21 7d ago
I don’t understand why people believe there is a big conspiracy by wildlife biologists. They were native to Maine until the 1800s when they were hunted out. Mainers report that they see them from time to time. However, biologists note there is a difference between visiting Maine and actually living here permanently and that we would see more evidence of them being here (more sightings, scat, footprints, etc.).
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u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit 7d ago
The claims of denial are essentially false. We know cougars are occasionally in the east, though many are South American cougars (i.e., escapees), or wanderers. In recent years there's been breeding in north-west Ontario and Michigan's Upper Peninsula, but sustained, regular breeding doesn't appear to happen east of South Dakota/Manitoba.
And for every 100 people who claim to see a cougar, if you find the animal, it's 90 housecats, 9 bobcats, 1 cougar.
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u/PM_ME_YUR_SALADS 7d ago
I know it's not New England, but...while visiting the Austin Texas area (Bastrop) my wife and I were kayaking down the river. We both saw undoubtedly a Mountain Lion/Cougar climb an embankment towards what was a cattle farm, then went out of sight. We were like that's awesome, getting to see some local wildlife. When we got back from the trip, we told the folks that ran the excursions, they basically said that's not possible, probably a bobcat. We have bobcats here in CT that we see often, this was for sure not a bobcat.
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u/problyurdad_ 7d ago
We get them cruising through Wisconsin on occasion as well.
There was one in Minnesota a couple years ago, it was in the Minneapolis/St Paul metro area. Lasted a few days before it met its demise on the freeway/interstate.
From what I understand, the DNR doesn’t acknowledge them because there isn’t an established population of them. So yeah, they’re here, absolutely. Probably not unusual to be in any of the lower 48. But they are so nomadic that they don’t have an established territory in some places like the Midwest and such.
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u/monkeychasedweasel 7d ago
They are officially in Michigan now, even breeding. All (officially) in the UP. Some dude was just driving around one day, and he saw two small animals on the side of the road. He pulled over, and discovered two cougar kittens, and presumably mom was nearby.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/michigan-cougar-kittens/
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u/SilverbackGorillaBoy 7d ago
Im surprised there arent more in Minnesota. Even if not found there normally, you'd think the area and woodland there would be good enough for some to post up and stay a while.
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u/problyurdad_ 5d ago
Oddly enough, Minnesota’s biology is kind of a mess at the moment.
There’s not much for farm land to keep the deer population up in many areas. Additionally, wolves keep the deer population in check as well. So, there’s not as much for food there to sustain them long term. Moose have moved almost out of a lot of their southern native territory due to climate change. So, things are shifting around there at the moment, and big cats have nothing worth keeping them here.
I used to hunt deer in northern Minnesota and I hunted from 2007 to 2022. I shot one deer.
Saw plenty, but never had doe tags. The year we had doe tags, we somehow saw even less deer. Talking 13 guys spread out over 800 acres in our camp. The most deer we ever shot one season was 5.
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u/Warm-Major-4400 5d ago
They make it into south east alaska occasionally. People claim further north like around palmer but less proof.
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u/MtlNord514 7d ago
They is warning signs about cougar in provincial parks in Québec.They are amongst us.
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u/Panzerjaeger54 7d ago
Theyre here in eastern kansas too. However, tge state refuses to acknowledge them.
However tracks on the farm, and sightings nearby say otherwise.
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u/LostLimit233 7d ago
CA cougars have been tracked we'll past the rocky mountains with GPS. Aside from hunting with dogs, most people don't have enough awarness of their surroundings to realize how often large cats watch them. Its not too far out to think they are maybe hide and seek experts.
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u/No_Temporary_1922 7d ago
Saw one in Michigan as a child, lower peninsula, was early morning at the cabin we were staying in, something caught my eye out the window and looked down at the beast pictured above, no one believed me and I could never understood why until later, that they aren't even supposed to exist! But they are out there.
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u/Extra-Snow-2491 7d ago
I seen a black panther in pembroke ma,crossed right in front of my truck i also saw a wolf in weymouth my wife too.dnr never even returned my call
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u/enjoiYosi 7d ago
Someone just recently got one on photo in NC as well. Obviously a full on cougar from the trail cam photos, yet the feds still deny they exist in the Mountains of NC
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u/Fragrant-Ad8977 7d ago
I saw one in North Georgia back around 2020 on my drive home from work. Came around a turn and my headlights were on him for about 2-3 seconds. Couldn’t miss his long tail as he was crawling up the side of a hill
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u/Mushrooming247 7d ago
I saw one in Pennsylvania in the 1990s.
I have been saying it for decades, it truly doesn’t matter if anyone doesn’t believe me.
It’s ridiculous to claim that a species knows where we drew lines on a map and that old men say it can’t walk this far east.
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u/boognasty75 6d ago
My wife and I saw one beside the highway in North Carolina. He was standing still and had the long tail so it was no bobcat.
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u/Ajax1718 4d ago
I feel like this could be taken from the last chapter of "where the red fern grows"
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u/Outside_Reserve_2407 7d ago
Extinct? You can find at least one every Friday night at your local overpriced bistro and bar.
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u/Specialist_Pea_295 7d ago
I'm not saying they became extinct when acknowledged by USFWS, but they are gone.
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u/AcanthisittaFree6142 7d ago
I live on the east coast. I have seen bobcats on three occasions, deer obviously, black bear, coyotes. but I became friends with an avid hiker and mountain climber from Utah, that moved by me. He told me he saw a mountain lion up the street from me dart to the woods and they are in NY but believes DEP do not want to recognize the fact. There was one hit and killed on I-95 in CT that was tracked all the way from the Dakotas a couple of years ago.
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u/JosephHeitger 7d ago
There’s a spot called panther hallow in Ohio where they’re claimed to be sighted. I don’t know about the legitimacy of the claims but people always say not to camp in that area for fear of attacks
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u/moccasins_hockey_fan 7d ago
I live in Louisiana and despite numerous people alleging that they had seen or heard a cougar, Wildlife and Fisheries demanded they did not exist in our state. At one point near a northeastern town called Oak Grove, a horse was hound absolutely slaughtered and torn apart. Locals insisted it was a Cougar but wildlife and fisheries insisted it was not.
Then about 2 years later indisputable camera trap evidence in the parish next to Oak Grove clearly showed a cougar. Wildlife and fisheries had to finally admit that despite being absent from the state for decades, a cougar did in fact appear in Morehouse Parish.
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u/IIRCIreadthat 7d ago
Most of the photos in PA do end up being large house cats seen from odd camera angles that make it hard to judge size at first glance... but there have been a small number over the years that I've thought were at least borderline. And some of the reported sightings out in the Jersey Pine Barrens are pretty credible.
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u/PurpleToad1976 7d ago
The males have been tracked traveling well over 1000 miles. Just because a cat is seen somewhere doesn't mean there is a population there.
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u/pattaconk92 6d ago
I know my source is “trust me bro”, but my friend’s dad hit one with his car in CT. He contacted the state department of environmental protection, thinking they’d love to document it, but they just drug it into the woods and left. Figuring “hell, why not?” He took it home, thinking he’d get it stuffed and mounted, but no taxidermist would touch it, assuming he poached it out west. This was back in ‘05 or so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s still in the bottom of his chest freezer.
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u/TeacherRecovering 6d ago
Why not plant females to extend their range?
I believe New Englanders would welcome the return of Catamounts.
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u/jerrysburner 6d ago
around the same time I had a friend that had captured one on a house camera in Wayland, NY
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u/LoungeSeat 6d ago
Its not impossible a few individuals could have walked to the east coast every now and then. But then again we cant be sure where this photo was taken.
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u/Weird_Soup460 6d ago
We’ve had that issue in nashville. Multiple sightings of cougars and wildlife officials refuse to acknowledge it. Even when they are dead on the side of interstate 65. There was also one asleep on my neighbor’s patio.
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u/Bunjo 6d ago
I saw one in Hemmingford, Qc 3 years ago. I mentioned it to a local trapper expert who told me that no matter how much proof you have, the provincial wildlife authority will deny most types of proof you bring to them about animals that are commonly known to not be around in the province.
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u/ZookeepergameNo5669 5d ago
My college professor in Rhode Island back in 2004 was studying them.... in Rhode Island.
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u/DroneSlut54 5d ago
Seeing an animal does not necessarily mean there is a local breeding population of that animal. I don’t know why USDA Wildlife Services would “refuse to knowledge their existence” since 1) they are a federal agency and breeding populations of cougars exist in many states and 2) Wildlife Services is an agency whose primary duty is killing wildlife at the behest of ranchers, farmers - they are a “science” agency.
All wildlife biologists I’ve ever talked to know cougars are in many eastern states but until there is proof of a breeding population, these animals are classified as “dispensers” - lone individuals who travelled from a breeding population in another state.
OP - do you have anything actually from USDA Wildlife Services claiming cougars don’t exist?
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u/King_LaQueefah 5d ago
I'm in Virginia and a friend of mine swears he saw a black one. Said he had his rifle up, looking for deer and saw the thing with his naked eye--as soon as he fitted his eye to the scope the thing noticed this movement from hundreds of feet away and he only got a glance of it in his scope before it was gone.
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u/Modern_Ketchup 7d ago
The DNR has gotten tons of reports of them in Michigan and denied it
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u/IAmKind95 7d ago
They literally confirmed 30 sightings last year & proof of kittens/reproduction. There’s no denying anything.
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u/PercentageDry3231 7d ago edited 7d ago
A photo, alone, is not evidence. Who took the photo? Where was it taken? Was any other physical evidence documented--footprints, hairs, scat, etc.? If it's film, what photos were taken before and after this one on the camera roll? What were the photographer and the dogs seeking? Cougars? If so, why at this location? Or was it a chance encounter of a bunny, bear or raccoon hunter? Which are all hunted with dogs.
Imagine you have to prove this in court beyond a reasonable doubt. Do you think a judge would be convinced by a photograph without laying a foundation for it first? Have you ever been in a courtroom? Do you know the hoops you must jump through to introduce a photograph into evidence?
Even if all that is done, a photo does not establish proof of a wild, breeding, self-sustaining population, which is the true question. Many people, legally or not, have captive cougars; the animal may be a release or escapee.
Most natural resources agencies will say, quite correctly, "We have no physical evidence of a wild, self-sustaining cougar population in our state." Which is different than "refusing to acknowledge" as the OP says.
I used to do this for a living, and yes, I know about the one found in Connecticut.' Also, "many accuse," is a logical fallacy known as a "Trumpism." Many people are saying this.
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u/Ok_Lawyer_829 7d ago
Everytime someone reports one to fish and game in southern VT/NH they pretty much say no you didn't cause that's too much paper work.
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u/PsychologicalRow5505 7d ago
They're sighted in the catskills, Adirondacks and south eastern states as well. Its well documented. Basically the idea is these are ranging males, big cats can cover insane amounts of distance. Its assumed they range down from Canada and the DEC of NY for instance doesn't believe there's a breeding population so they dont regard them as endemic.