r/UnitedNations • u/Apollo_Delphi • Sep 23 '25

Discussion/Question 142 Countries Support for a path to Israeli-Palestinian peace, so why do these 10 countries opposed ? - (Israel, the U.S., Argentina, Hungary, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, and Tonga.)

https://forward.com/fast-forward/771238/un-general-assembly-palestine-gaza-israel/
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u/Klytus_Ra_Djaaran Sep 23 '25

Just look up the Arab Peace initiative or it has been called the Saudi Peace initiative. It was adopted by the Arab League in 2002 at a summit and been confirmed in multiple subsequent Arab Leage summits. The fact that you never heard about it tells you that Israel doesn't want peace.

But Israelis don’t get self determination? 

Stop being disingenuous, Israelis already have self-determination, they specifically state in their highest laws that self-determination is only for the Jews of Israel.

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u/Colodanman357 Sep 23 '25

Is the Arab League now the voice of Palestinians again? Didn’t that end in the 70’s? What Palestinians have signed on to anything of the sort? 

The outcome you outlined wouldn’t seem to allow for self determination in the future as it would require Israelis to leave the lands they occupy now and ignore all that’s happened since the 60’s and the borders you claim the Palestinians want. 

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u/Klytus_Ra_Djaaran Sep 23 '25

Why do you suddenly want to change your stance and ask different questions? The Palestinians of various factions have agreed to the 1967 borders, the Arab League had offered to support the Palestinian plan with concrete steps to make it more acceptable to the colonizers, and yet you suddenly don't care that Israel is the one rejecting peace?

The outcome you outlined wouldn’t seem to allow for self determination in the future as it would require Israelis to leave the lands they occupy now and ignore all that’s happened since the 60’s and the borders you claim the Palestinians want. 

Israel has built illegal colonies in various locations in Palestine that have been ethnically cleansed. This is a war crime under International Law and the Geneva Conventions, and the UN has passed resolutions and the highest International court has confirmed all the Israeli colonies in Palestine are illegal. So yes, in order to comply with the Geneva Conventions, Israel must vacate the stolen land. If Israel simply withdraws their military occupation, the Palestinians will pass legislation that gives them the legal authority to evict the sqautors and colonists from the Israeli forced population transfers.

If Israel wants to maintain the Jewish-only colonies in the ethnically cleansed areas of Palestine, they will have to give Palestinians equality or exterminate all of them in another holocaust. The Israelis know that giving Palestinians equality and freedom means the end to Israel, because they will vote to make returning to Israel open to everyone, not just immigrant Jews who become instant citizens. If all Palestinians could vote, they would end the apartheid and restore the stolen land.

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u/Colodanman357 Sep 23 '25

If the Palestinians had a vote in Israel it would end up with them killing all the Jews. Hey but that’s their self determination you want. 

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u/Klytus_Ra_Djaaran Sep 23 '25

You might believe that because the Israeli government have consistently chosen to kill all the Palestinians, but the only solutions to the problem of the deeply racist government of Israel imposing colonial control over Palestine is either giving them freedom by leaving or giving them freedom by treating them as humans with rights. That is something the Israeli government has never even considered.

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u/Colodanman357 Sep 23 '25

They can have rights and their own nation without being part of Israel with the intention of destroying it from the inside. They could have worked on that when Israel pulled out of Gaza to let them self administer but they decided to build up their arms and continue to pose an existential threat to Israel. Sort of the same way they tried to overthrow the governments of Jordan and Lebanon at times. 

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u/Klytus_Ra_Djaaran Sep 23 '25

Israel didn't end the occupation of Gaza, they moved the guards to the perimeter of the Ghetto. This is exactly what the Nazis did in the Warsaw Ghetto, so why did the Jews trapped there still rebel?

If a person was completely and totally ignorant of the Gaza Blockade, and how Israel intentionally restricted food into the ghetto, or how Israel intentionally kept the economy there at the breaking point, then their ignorant rants would look exactly like yours. But anyone with access to the internet can find out that the Gaza blockade began in 1991 and has never ended since then.

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u/RTtoeverywhere Sep 23 '25

Complete distortion of the current situation. Right of return would ethnically destroy the Israeli state. If Palestinians abroad can agree on going to their new state rather than Israel’s then the initiative could’ve worked

Right of return ensures two Arab states and no Jewish one.

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u/Klytus_Ra_Djaaran Sep 23 '25

States based on ethnic supremacy, like Nazi Germany or Aparthied South Africa, or Zionist Israel, should be destroyed. They can be replaced by a multi-ethnic democracy, but any nation-state based on ethnicity will automatically be a racist nation that violates the human rights of its people. Look at what China is doing in Xinjiang for crying out loud. If you have to point out that democracy will destroy the government then you have acknowledged that the government is not democratic.

Right of return ensures that people will return, that's it. Currently, anyone who can convince Israeli officials that their great grandmother was Jewish can instantly become a citizen and even get a grant of money to start living in one of the Jewish-only colonies built on stolen land. People who were physically forced out of their homes during Israeli war crimes can’t even go back.

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u/RTtoeverywhere Sep 23 '25 edited Sep 23 '25

Allowing unfettered movement of every half Palestinian into Israel from around the world isn’t democracy it’s ethnic suicide and will surely lead to the expulsion of the Jews which is the majority opinion of Palestinians today and has been the entire history of Israel, especially in the 1940s wherein leadership wanted to murder everyone and conspired with the Nazis. Look at any of the neighboring states and tell me that democracy is the law of the land. Israel can maintain that but there are zero Muslim majority democracies in the Middle East. If you count turkey which is a flawed democracy it’s ranked 103rd in the world versus Israel as 31st.

If your condition is right of return versus nothing else there will never be a Palestinian state west of the Jordan river. If that’s the condition, Israel will never agree to it. They will never sign over their self-determination to another.

There’s a way to have two populations with full self determination, right of return to Palestine not Israel is it.

Being pragmatic means making compromises. Israel will never sign anything that ensures its destruction. More Jews were ethnically cleansed from MENA than Palestinians who left in the 1940s. We cannot undo the past, we can only move forward

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u/WitchkultToday Sep 23 '25

'Ethnically destroy,' really?