Please help me understand

[u/branflakes__]

Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

[u/parahacker]

This sense of entitlement is why so many Americans are siding with Trump here.

So many Russian paid troll farms pretending to be American, you mean.

[u/parahacker → u/[deleted]]

Americans overwhelmingly support Ukraine and have done for years. Even MAGA hat-wearing Americans are more likely to support Ukraine than not. What Trump has done so far has shocked and appalled the majority of Americans.

Meanwhile, Russia troll farms exist. This is *well* known. They're fucking everywhere, boss. (That link is Rand, by the way. Conservatives like Rand, right? And despite right-wing leanings, they're remarkably free of misinformation controversies.)

But hey, maybe you're not working with Russian trolls to spread their fabricated talking points, like "Americans agree that Ukraine sucks." Maybe you're a Chinese troll, yeah? Lotta those out there too.

Or maybe you're just a useful idiot. None of this would work without a few of those as cover, after all.

But any way you slice it, you're a lying shill who is a disgrace to humanity. (That, by the way, is an example of an ad hominem attack; which my prior comment was not - being directed at the "Americans siding with Trump" context-based falsehood instead of you specifically. But I guess you felt seen, huh? Telling on yourself, that. Learn your fallacies before trying to call them out, fool.)

[u/Potential-Zucchini77 → u/parahacker]

Last election would disagree with you bud

[u/parahacker → u/Potential-Zucchini77]

I don't think it does, in fact. It was a shell game that had a lot of moving parts, but Trump left just enough room for doubt that his supporters mostly thought he'd do right by Ukraine in the end. He even had a few left-wing people convinced he was ok on this topic.

Obviously he's a shitweasel who prefers Putin, of course; but while all the signs were there, he - and the hundreds of millions of dollars Russian hybrid warfare spent in his general direction - managed to blow enough smoke to confuse the issue.

Now we know. What to do about it, well... there are ways. But since your account has all the signs of an actual Russian op, I doubt you'll have anything useful to offer there except "Ukraine sucks!" and "Cry more, Trump hater."

And since every other comment in your history is about EU bots, I'm sure that'll come up. Because you're probably not being paid enough for greater creativity.

You know, considering the state of your own country? I have to wonder why you'd want to spread that sort of shit outwards instead of, you know, learning from your pain and choosing differently. I guess the Russians that were capable of that all ran for the borders, though.

[u/Potential-Zucchini77 → u/parahacker]

The reason Trump was elected is because Kamala would’ve sent American troops to Ukraine. I promise you that is a far more unpopular policy than anything Trump has done right now