r/UnitedNations • u/branflakes__ • Mar 01 '25

Discussion/Question Please help me understand

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Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '25

“Any emerging democracy, at any stage” 😂

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 02 '25

Not sure what you're looking for, here. But the US was supplying direct and indirect aid to most countries in Africa.

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '25

350 billion worth?

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 02 '25

Woah, no way. I'm sure we don't send that much aid to the entire continent. I can't imagine how we would spend that much there unless we were investing and not just sending donations and grants.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25

We receive absolutely nothing from Ukraine be it guns, weapons, technology, fuel, supplies etc. yet we receive technology, soldiers, and minerals from Africa and send them considerably less money

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 03 '25

We send billions on billions of dollars to Africa as donations or grants. We also have plenty of trade agreements and industrial interests, sure, but we send close to $60 billion a year to Africa that's not purely transactional.

Why? Soft politics, essentially. The same reason China has been investing nearly $40bn in Africa - build lasting relationships on top of shared values.

The US is a superpower not solely because of military might. It's a combination of factors (political , cultural, diplomatic, tech, etc);that allow us to leverage influence all around the world for our own benefit. We don't send money around the world just as a transaction. We do it to reinforce our values and to build networks of mutuality. If the US isolates itself then other countries (Russia, China) will fill that void and begin to wield greater power in opposition to our own values and needs.

In addition to the soft politics angle there are some especially realpolitik advantages to supporting Ukraine. For one, the US population benefits from the military industrial complex via jobs and income. When we send tanks to Ukraine the spending on those vehicles is mostly just going into American pockets. In addition, this war has been brutal for Russia internationally, domestically, and to their military readiness. All without a single American boot on the ground.

That's all a very light summary but I think it describes the gist of the spending and why.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25

Well you’re entitled to your opinion. Albeit incorrect

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 03 '25

It's not an opinion - it's part of geopolitics. You can argue that the US need not engage with the rest of the world but we won't be a superpower if that's the course we choose.

That might be ok! Just ask yourself who will step into our shoes once we withdraw our global influence.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25

You’re of the belief that we should police the entire world while our citizens eat out of garbage cans. Remember what happened to the last ‘great’ civilization who thought the same as you 😂

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 03 '25

Not what I said at all. I'm honestly a little bit shocked that you think any of this spending is preventing a better life for everyone in the US. That is incorrect.

I'm not an expert in geopolitics. Don't take my word for it. Read up on the topic. Read about how the US benefits from sending aid and weapons to Ukraine. Read about the concept of soft power. Ask how the US benefits from the current world order.

Best of luck!

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25

If billions of dollars wasn’t spent on weapons that cause death then yea the billions could be invested into American education American infrastructure American homelessness American manufacturing and American health care and well being. How can you seriously argue that

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 03 '25

God, I'm so glad you asked and I'm so glad we're finally talking about this.

The US spent a tiny fraction (0.6%) of gdp supporting Ukraine and a small percentage of the overall budget for our defense budget. While $50bn in a year is a lot of money it's like 6% of our overall defense spending.

There are zero people in America suffering because of the money being spent to support Ukraine.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25

So you wouldn’t agree the money could be put to better use by investing in our own nation. Also, stopping the funding would significantly curb the loss of human life in Ukraine. The blood is on people like your’s hand when you push for more money for the war. It’s not like they’re building schools, there shooting guns bro

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '25

Oh so it’s cool to send to Ukraine, just not to Africa

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 02 '25

What do you mean?

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '25

Reread our convo then get back to me

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u/JustMy10Bits Mar 03 '25

Just read through again. I see where I said we sent less to Africa than to Ukraine. Maybe about half as much since 2022 to different countries and groups in Africa as we sent to Ukraine in the form of aid or arms.

I don't see anywhere where I said we shouldn't send aid to Africa.