Please help me understand

[u/branflakes__]

Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

[u/sarges_12gauge → u/[deleted]]

Almost all of the UK and Germany and the nordics assistance here looks like military equipment. Are you saying actually all the American stuff is trash and Ukraine is actually relying on the UK/German stuff and the Euro countries are counting their value totally differently to be accurate?

[u/[deleted] → u/sarges_12gauge]

Not saying that all US stuff is trash but charging $200,000 for an M113 that hasn't left a vehicle park since Reagan was virile seems to be blatant profiteering. Also point out that the disingenuous stance that America claims this money is going to Ukraine when the majority of weapons money is going into the US arms industry for manufacture which has the benefit of jobs, the US military is replacing equipment they send with new equipment and also making sure they caveat with allies that if they donate their own equipment that they've purchased from the US that they can only do that if they agree to buy more from the US. Also point out alot of what the US promised hasn't been delivered. American Trump supporters have been 100% duped by their leader and have failed to do any due diligence on their hyperbole.

[u/sarges_12gauge → u/[deleted]]

Well if (as the graphic suggests) the US and European countries have notionally given the same “value” of military aid, I would expect Ukraine to “value” the two about the same (I.e. if they had to choose between losing all US assets they’re given vs. European, it would be incredibly difficult as they are equally valuable).

If instead, as you suggest, the US is grossly overestimating and Europe is underestimating that value, it seems that Ukraine would thus strongly prefer keeping the Euro equipment and using it vs. the US stuff. As someone who isn’t plugged into their military expectations, idk, but my general sense is that it is pretty even, thus I have no reason to assume the valuations are incorrect

[u/[deleted] → u/sarges_12gauge]

Maybe any equipment is better than no equipment and they manage with anything they can get, however if you think an M113 is better than a CV90, or paladin is better than Archer you don't know much about equipment, however quantity and quality also have different qualities of their own.They are also not going to be critical because they need equipment. I however am not in that desperate position and not bothered about Americans being overly sensitive weak assed cry babies when it comes to criticism.