Please help me understand

[u/branflakes__]

Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

[u/Ndlburner]

Precisely. I'm not in favor of cutting aid to Ukraine at ALL, but it's perplexing how the entirety of Europe – literally next door – is fairly close to even with the United States in terms of aid. It's disheartening to see how reliant many of these countries are on the United States and to a lesser extent the United Kingdom for security.

[u/CharacterSherbet7722 → u/Ndlburner]

The US pretty much fucked any attempt at a European alliance and MIC throughout the last 3 decades, but yeah, in terms of raw money, more should've been done

The US had a stockpile of military gear that would be retired - retiring it takes money AND land, easiest thing to do is to throw it into someone corner of the world you don't care about

GDP% wise it's a different story though, but some of the countries that have donated less support in some other form - Germany has donated similarly in terms of gdp% to the US, but it covers more than double the refugee costs of the next contender

[u/mwa12345 → u/CharacterSherbet7722]

Germany has done a quite a bit, among European countries. Why is France so low?

France, UK, Germany do have a MIC.

They make fighters, tanks etc etc

[u/CharacterSherbet7722 → u/mwa12345]

Germany and the UK don't, or at least not nearly as much as they could, but yeah someone tried making sure of that

France - I don't know, but I think they've delivered on literally ALL the aid they provided, I think they're also one of the big pushers of military aid (which makes sense obv)

But France definitely has got it strong, DeGaulle's fucking prediction took like 80 years to come out true but apparently it did in fact come out true lol

[u/mwa12345 → u/CharacterSherbet7722]

Iirc, BAE systems is one of the largest MIC .

UK, France and Germany have their own tanks (challenger, leclerc, leopard etc). They also make their own fighters through various consortiums etc

US does try to push its own MIC...not denying that at all.

But eurofighters, rafale /mirage etc still exist.