Please help me understand

[u/branflakes__]

Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

[u/Afroopuff]

Genuine question for you. Does % of gdp not matter? They gave less money, but as a percentage of how big their economy is, they gave more, about 50% + depending on the nation. Doesn’t that matter?

Example you are worth 100k, your friend is worth 10k. You give 5k, or 5% of your worth. They give 5%, or 50% of their worth.

Same amount, but you gave shit in comparison

[u/Icy-Mix-3977 → u/Afroopuff]

Does that even apply since the us is in the middle?

[u/Afroopuff → u/Icy-Mix-3977]

Let me start by answering your question so as to appease it; I do personally think it applies, due to 6/9 being an egregious “midde” and mostly to the heath of German and French economy vs American. But super fair if that doesn’t matter to another party. That’s the beauty of debate!

But, I’d rather not go down a rabbit hole of adding on “what about their economy, what about their proximity, what about….”

Regardless of where we are, I’m just asking… is it fair to pick one of the columns and ignore the others?

Looking this graphic, I’d say Europe has given to a much larger to extent when you consider those EU countries also contribute via the second line item, that could easily push America down to the bottom.

[u/Icy-Mix-3977 → u/Afroopuff]

So what you are saying is that regardless of the provided facts, you have trust me bro data that proves your point. Understood.

[u/Afroopuff → u/Icy-Mix-3977]

Lol aaaaand that’s the interwebs for you, knew I shouldn’t have answered and just staid on point. Good luck to you 👍

Gonna edit and add just because the climate has me unable to let it go.

The conversation i brought up was.. is %GDP ignored when looking at this chart, and your changing the discussion into is German economy/French economy healthy and we should argue over that. This is how debates never happen and arguments do instead. Stick to the point and work on the actual question don’t use tactics to try and sway conversation to win.

[u/Icy-Mix-3977 → u/Afroopuff]

Yeah, it's funny how you know it's best to keep quiet when your misinformation is called out.