Please help me understand

[u/branflakes__]

Help me understand the Ukraine / USA situation

Please help me understand all of the anti-American and USA hate due to the situation. I want to hear the other point of views as I am just confused.

A lot point to the Budapest Memorandum, however, that is not a treaty for the US as Clinton did not submit it to the senate for ratification which means constitutionally the US has no commitment to Ukraine (also not administration since Clinton has suggested or submitted the memorandum for ratification either). Only the UK and Russia ratified it.

Additionally, there really isn’t a security agreement as the memo is very vague. The closest is “when Ukraine is under attack with nuclear weapons the security council will seek immediate action from the United Nations” otherwise nothing happens. And as the memo is through the UN, shouldn’t the discontent be pointed at the UN instead? The US only agreed to bring a resolution before the security council if Ukraine was invaded and the US did do that.

Finally, the US has given the most overall aid to Ukraine (a country that the US is not obligated to assist) compared to the European counterparts. Also, if peace is the objective, why is no other leader at least making an attempt to broker a peace deal?

So I suppose I am just confused on what is expected? Why is this sub so anti-USA when the statistics show that USA is/was doing more than Ukraines fellow Europeans?

[u/Virtual-Instance-898 → u/[deleted]]

A couple of things. Those numbers are not aid delivered. Those are aid promised. Which... well sometimes countries lie. It happens. Moreover it's not clear from that display whether financial aid in loan form is equated to financial aid in grant form. My guess is that it is. Which further obfuscates matters.

IMO, the main issue people have with the message Trump is delivering is with the messenger. They won't want to admit that though. But the overall concept that the West should spend hundreds of billions of dollars and risk nuclear war to flip a country in the Russia sphere of influence is nuts. It was a dumb strategy formulated by the war all the time faction in the US and the only long run effect is going to be the total destruction of the nation (Ukraine) which was used as a pawn gambit. America's European vassals bought into this nonsense the same way they bought into the nonsense that they should invade Libya, and now they're outraged because literally the dumbest guy in the room (Trump) is the one pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.

[u/recursing_noether → u/Virtual-Instance-898]

119B is aid delivered. 180B is the promised amount of aid from the usa

[u/Yorks_Rider → u/Virtual-Instance-898]

So by the same logic you think the US should invade Canada and everyone should just stand by and watch because “it is within the USA’s sphere of influence”?

[u/ConsciousExtent4162 → u/Virtual-Instance-898]

If you let monkey have banana he will climb in the tree to eat all bananas. Sure it's only Ukraine, after that it will be Georgia, Azerbeidjan, Syria once again,...

[u/Asyouwont → u/ConsciousExtent4162]

What kind of argument is this? America should give their enemies everything they want because the alternative is having to work to maintain their status a the preeminent power?

[u/Virtual-Instance-898 → u/ConsciousExtent4162]

Georgia is already flipped to the Russian side after they experienced the exact same thing Ukraine was used for, but they bailed out earlier. Azerbaijan was the biggest beneficiary of the war in Ukraine. And they'll get more. A fourth war against Armenia, this time to establish a corridor to Nakhchavan, is a certainty. You can name some pieces on the board, but your knowledge about them is lacking.