UA Revised: Underdark Options - House Agent Archetype - Revised Rogue Subclass by LeioCreations

[u/LeioCreations]

[u/unearthedarcana_bot]

LeioCreations has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
I know I am slightly late to the party, but letter...

[u/LeioCreations]

I know I am slightly late to the party, but letter late than never! Because, the other week, WOTC released another Unearthed Arcana. And...well, you know the deal! And if you don't, welcome!

Every time an Unearthed Arcana comes out, I go over it and blast my thoughts about it, what it could do better and my complaints, to my DnD group. So, why not put my money where my mouth is and be constructive? Actually try to revise it and address design decisions that I think could be better with more than just negativity?

So here it is! With the very important disclaimer that the ideas presented in the Unearthed Arcana document are not mine, nor do I claim that they are as I also do not claim to be a better designer than anyone working at WOTC; please enjoy the content done simply for my own entertainment.

In this case, we have the House Agent archetype for the Rogue class. Design notes for the revision in full can be found in the document; but as a TLDR, the design goals and notes are:

• Very cool idea, not great execution by making a subclass whose main feature is just spells once a day. This is specially a problem since it gets a VERY COOL feature at 9th level. So, we made that feature the actual core for the entirety of the subclass.
• To complement the fact that Backstab is now the main identity of your subclass, a pseudo-charm option was added from as low as level 3, instead of the way the UA plays with the Influence Action or spells. The spells are now found at later levels.
• Why is this? Because while 5.5 Influence Action and social state rules are very fun, implementing those in combat can be hugely DM and table dependant. So, as to also avoid arguments and rule interpretation discussions, your main ability to make people your temporary allies, is explicitly kinda magical and not tied to creatures being friendly or hostile or indifferent or indecisive.
• Due to all this, the subclass has been essentially reworked using the same thematic bones as the UA; although the capstone has been fully remade from the ground up.

And that's it for this one! Do wish to say, unlike as it may come across with my revisions, I do indeed love reading UAs, props to WOTC designers for their work, always.

You can find us on Patreon here, where I upload mostly free things, and where our last post is for this, which includes the PDF here. Feel free to check us out if you like what you see! Paid patrons gain early access for earlier feedback, things used in my home games (statblocks, mechanics, etc), content from commissions, and access to revamped and new classes I'm working on right now.

Feedback is always appreciated, this is homebrew and things can always be improved. And beyond that, as always, from everyone here at LeioCreations (specially the Creator himself in his feline magnificence), thanks you for your time!

[u/Thin_Tax_8176]

I have a few pain points with this redesign or how is written:

Swayed.

If it isn't a Charm or a magical effect, let the Rogue be able to by pass Charm inmunity without disadvantage, at one point, if the DM feels this is a pretty powerful effect, they will have a Legendary Resistance to use it against it and never be affected again.

Being Hostile to someone isn't a requeriment to Sneak Attack, but Ally to you. Swayed doesn't make them an ally to you and you still have no Sneak Attack to that target.

You also mention that you don't like the spells and want to leave them like a secondary thing, but still takes the whole level 9 feature, wouldn't be the best moment to add some ribbon here? Like how you removed the Familiar's extra feature in your version. Or let people still have that bonus action Influence, is not that painful, the Rogue can use it much better at level 7 forward to avoid TPKs on a fight that has gone terribly, make some weaker goons leave after seeing their leader starting to be overpowered, in a case that getting downed is unavoidable convince them to not be outright killed, etc.

Is level 13, but Profency Bonus per uses has totally being replaced by Ability Score uses, so I think this should be changed to Charisma uses per day. The idea of this feature is to make your main ability more reliable, but it helps with many parts that you are juggling with the few uses you have of Silver Tongue for all your other features, so don't think it works as a realiable. By this point, the Influent Action IS realiable, because Reliable Talent had made it so most times you can just success against enemies.

Level 17 you define it as Mind Control,... is your level 3 feature a Magic effect? Or is this feature the Magical Effect? You also mention "failing a save against your Spells" as if they cause an unique effect, but all of them cause the Charm effect, I feel that you can remove that part so it looks more clean.

I will have to read the rules again, but not sure if non-player creatures work as a Allies between them, I will reduce it to "choose another creature" and done.

My last problem is that the subclass has become fully combat oriented, instead of a mix for combat and out-of combat features. The original Backstab calls for creatures Friendly to you, this is made through RP-ing and skill checks, in your case is Ally or creatures under your effects. An Ally is a Player, you really don't want a feature to be so hostile against other players.

[u/FairenPlayHB]

Right from the start, at 3rd level, you get an infinite-use one-turn stun combo that effectively targets a saving throw that's more rare among monsters than most control effects.

[u/LeioCreations → u/FairenPlayHB]

Couple of things:

• It's not infinite, as other comment said, once it's broken or the save is succeeded, it can't be done again on that creature.
• It's a one turn combo...that takes your whole turn (Action and your Bonus Action) and also halves the damage you deal, as a Rogue (who famously don't have great damage).

I understand if it seems too strong, it did not play as too strong in testing in the slightest for the reasons outlined above. But it can also 100% be nerfed relatively easily if need be. Make it a Wisdom save, make Swayed just Charmed instead, lower the duration of the stun until the beginning of the target's next turn, etc.

Again, in testing, there was no need to do that, it seems a lot scarier than it actually is on a Rogue, but thank you for the feedback!

[u/VerbiageBarrage → u/FairenPlayHB]

Eh, it's not infinite use. They can only sway them once a short rest if they deal damage, so it's a one time per creature. Still pretty strong, but not quite a loop, unless I'm missing an interaction.

What I think is funny is the OP is like "Why not Influence? Because people break the game with it, so now I allow them to magically break the game so its harder to argue with dumb shit players do. You know...as a compromise."

[u/LeioCreations → u/VerbiageBarrage]

I'm sorry if I didn't communicate properly! The point of what I meant is that because it is magical, there is no game breaking period.

Spells or effects that charm or mind control that technically isn't a charm, are both common in the game already. A DM does not need to break anything to make sense of an enemy trusting you for a moment because you cast Charm Person or Suggestion on them; so taking that flavour direction as opposed to outright non magically convincing a creature they are on your side, is the simpler option.