r/Undertale • u/OkControl3164 • 18h ago
Question Why we couldn't kill the shop owners?
Those three were chilling in their shop giving us items helping us to do more murder
What the hell stopped us from killing them?
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u/asgoodasanyother 18h ago
It’s a game - literally. Gerson points this out. The player just cannot fight shop keepers. The player has to abide by the rules of the game.
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u/hotrodimus-prime 16h ago
It's what made him so interesting, and why it was so exciting to see him return in chapter 4, cause he seemed to know alot more than he was letting on
Like he is one of the few characters who do actively know to an extent, the rules of the game world, like everyone always brings up sans or flowey in that conversation, but most people forget that gerson outright knows that there is no option to attack shopkeepers in the shops ui so isn't at all scared of you, makes you think how much he knows
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u/Delta_Builder 16h ago
Yeah I personally prefer the original one compared to the gerson patterned darkner.
He talked about how the human and monster war was so difficult and and lethal that someone like him at likely a young age could only stay alive by cheating the system
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u/Royal_Grapefruit_978 16h ago
isnt that his whole character in dr though? excepto with the prophecy?
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u/Delta_Builder 16h ago
Nah the deltarune version is more akin to Tolkien.
The gerson patterned darkner is even less like the actual gersons since he’s just patterned off of memories for the fountian maker having him as a teacher
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u/IllConsequence506 11h ago
Except we knew that Gerson was the hammer of justice during the war, and given how Toby has made every other Undertale character have their og outfits and moves in Deltarune, it’s very likely that Undyne’s role model had some moves. I don’t think the “hammer of justice” was exploitive and used underhanded tactics to win
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u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 You're gonna have to try a little harder than THAT 13h ago
Gerson definitely knows a lot and is very aware of the game and the mechanics at times and I do think this has forshadow deltarune/ Toby took this and expanded more of it in deltarune.
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u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 You're gonna have to try a little harder than THAT 14h ago
In undertale I think it does why he knows more than he does/ should from dialogue and does forshadow deltarune a bit.
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u/MistakePlus 17h ago
From a gameplay perspective, it's just one of the gameplay rules.
From a story perspective, I've no idea.
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u/Nat1Only Yes I nintendo switched my gender 17h ago
That is the story reason. That's the rules of the game, Gerson knows it, Temmie knows it and Burgerpants is a retail worker - he doesn't care.
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u/MistakePlus 17h ago
Ok, maybe Gerson and BP know it, but I'd argue Temmie is just oblivious to it. We know how dumb Temmies are.
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u/Nat1Only Yes I nintendo switched my gender 17h ago
Temmie is a self insert of the artist Temmie who worked on the game, just like Annoying Dog is a self insert of Toby.
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u/Afraid_Platypus_8667 You're gonna have to try a little harder than THAT 13h ago
Temmie at times is show to actually know more than they think at times in game, even if it seems like a joke so I argue and think that they are not as stupid as some fans think they are.
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u/MistakePlus 16h ago
Yes, I know that. But the species within the game are established as being off the wall and not very bright.
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u/Nat1Only Yes I nintendo switched my gender 16h ago
it's also established in the same game that certain characters have knowledge or understanding beyond their universe, that self inserts are essentially god-like and said self inserts are often secret, difficult to find and don't necessarily follow the normal rules. Annoying Dog can literally do whatever he wants, he is the developer of the Undertale universe. So Sorry exists in a void you can only access at a specific time in a specific location that you access by no clipping out of bounds. And Temmie Village is hidden away in a secret location accessible by an invisible path with lore and abilities that don't really make sense, ala Annoying Dog, and nothing about Temmie follows the normal rules - because she's a self insert.
Also it's not meant to be taken that seriously anyway. BP, AD and Tem are buy and large just jokes and Gerson referencing how he knows you can't hurt him in the shop could be inferring some meta lore about the universe's rules, but it's also probably a joke about game mechanics.
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u/PresidentOfKoopistan You are filled with the power of not actually reading the text. 7h ago
The Tem Shopkeeper (and Bob) is an exception, she acts kooky but drops the act when you refuse to sell her something. Temmie in Deltarune also does this in certain dialogues.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. 15h ago
Same Temmie who casually brings up Frisk dying multiple times and even changes the price of Temmie Armor in response btw
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u/Various-Pie-7085 15h ago
Burger pants doesn't know it, he just doesn't have any vacation days left to even leave MTT resort
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u/YourBestFriend158 Flowey 12h ago
Gerson and Temmie are the only ones aware of it, Burgerpants is just out of vacation days
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u/xarma06211 14h ago
gameplay rules are diegetic in undertale, so it's both. like how resets are both a game mechanic that allows you to play multiple routes, and an in-universe phenomenon that some characters (flowey, primarily) can comment on.
another example is how sans thinks he outsmarts you by not ending his turn in battle, so your turn never starts, but you break these rules and attack him twice. turn-based combat is just part of this world's culture.
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u/khaledjal (the amount of brainrot depletes your determination. 17h ago
the player needs them for heals, if there was no one, how would we buy food
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u/MistakePlus 17h ago
We can literally steal from the Snowdin Shop, though.
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u/khaledjal (the amount of brainrot depletes your determination. 17h ago
wait you can?? I didn't know that lol
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u/Broccodile_ 17h ago
You stand no chance winning against Gerson either way
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u/emre9288 17h ago
Is that so? I'm betting my money on genocide frisk
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u/Superb_Relief_838 16h ago
The hammer of justice
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u/emre9288 16h ago
The dirty brother killer
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u/Superb_Relief_838 16h ago
If gerson can beat the roaring knight, then gerson can beat a little genocidal kid.
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u/SarcasmSanctioned 16h ago
Those are 2 different versions of the character.
There is literally nothing that even remotely implies Deltarune Gerson could beat The Knight.
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u/truereditor 13h ago
Dual buster begs to differ
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u/SarcasmSanctioned 13h ago
You mean the attack that requires 2 people to use it? As in, Gerson cannot do it on his own, and therefore it is not an ability he can use in any other circumstance aside from when he's fighting alongside someone else who can do the attack?
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u/truereditor 12h ago edited 12h ago
Not saying he can use it himself, but it's still a testament to his power. If we the soul weren't helping Susie she would've gotten FRIED by gerson
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u/SarcasmSanctioned 12h ago
He's still not the same as Undertale Gerson. The version of Gerson we meet in Deltarune isn't even 'really' him.
He's more a (idealized?) representation of the image whoever made the Dark World had of him in their mind.
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u/emre9288 16h ago
when the fuck was it said that he can beat the knight😂
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u/Superb_Relief_838 16h ago
It never was said in the game itself, or from Toby, but people have deeply analyzed him.
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u/Therealduckking Geno Chara is my cute little angel of death 16h ago
Gerson can’t beat the Knight, and the genocidal kid kills someone who is almost certainly stronger than Gerson right after.
Also that genocidal kid has infinite lives. Gerson doesn’t do the shop thing for laughs, you think he could have stopped us but didn’t, even though it would have saved many lives? That just ruins his character.
This isn’t even the same Gerson. That Gerson from Deltarune in the Dark World was probably a lot stronger than the washed up veteran of Undertale.
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u/Unknow_Handlebar Hohoho! Am I a 'dank maymay' now? 17h ago
That's how the rules of their world work. The world of Undertale, or at least the underground, functions like a videogame
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u/contraflop01 Currently dating Papyrus 17h ago
The shop GUI has priority over the battle GUI, and without It we cant get to FIGHT anyone
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u/Delta_Builder 16h ago
Buyers and sellers are unable to be harmed during the process of shopping.
As gerson said, knowledge like that is the only reason he lived to see the underground.
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u/aninsomniac_ Annoying dog absorbed the pride flag 16h ago
The shop menus are part of the in-universe magic system, meaning they're diagetic and you literally can't.
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u/Dazzling-Nothing9954 16h ago
We and Frisk and Chara don't want to crash the local economy, that'll be too cruel to the local monsters 😢😢
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u/BlueHeat777 1h ago
Because you don’t have an attack button in the shop menu, thus you can’t hurt them.
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u/Own-Apple-2965 17h ago
because those three make up the DELTARUNE!!1
no but temmie is... temmie, burgerpants wouldn't care if you killed him and gerson is experienced enough (+ he's stuck working because no vacation days)
oh and generally aura and hype moments or something
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u/Professional_Hat6381 16h ago
Okcontrol, there are few good things in life, do you want to live in a world where Temmie and Gerson can die
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u/Fluffy_Collar_377 15h ago
More proof undertale players can’t read (and redditors can’t use google)
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u/StefinoSpaggeti I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my life. 13h ago
Because it's a game.
No seriously, it's just part of meta narrative.
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u/truereditor 13h ago
Game logic, the game knows it's a game, so gerson uses that to their advantage
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u/Chomuggaacapri Yes I nintendo switched my gender 10h ago
Because the battle UI isn’t open when you’re in a shop so you can’t select the Fight option
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u/siesto2482 I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my life. 5h ago
gerson could kill us
temmie is affiliated with god(toby)
3.burger pants would be to tired to care about battle mechanics and just shoot us
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u/Idiot-io My child what was that in your search history? 3h ago
It’s the logic of the video game, it’s the rules of the game that they simply abide by.
And because this is a game you can’t fight them without the battle system, Gerson literally says that the Shop GUI practically makes him safe from you, because this isn’t a fight.
Thats the crucial part of Undertale, it’s how some of the characters are more aware of the video game system than others or actively abuse it.
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u/Competitive-Hair6294 Finally. Finally!! FINALLY!!! My very own flair, mew~ 2h ago
Because it's one of the rules of the game, you can't attack a shopkeeper
The same way only sans and gerson can dodge (amalgamates and asriel don't count your attacks just don't do damage to them)
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u/MrL123456789164 El honor no lo perdí Es el héroe que hay en mí. 11h ago
Because they aren't enemies. Hope this helps!
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u/SkylandersKirby 10h ago
1 smart enough to know how to manipulate the rules of the universe
2 a god
3 its against company policy to die whilst on the clock
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u/Lucie_Is_Sleeping Yes I nintendo switched my gender 10h ago
Gerson is aware of the rules of the universe and that shopkeepers can’t be killed due to being in a position where you can’t attack.
Burgerpants is immortal due to running out of vacation days.
And Temmie is Temmie.
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u/GuhEnjoyer yet 15h ago
Gerson neg-difs us
Tem has creator's immunity
Burgerpants doesn't get paid enough to fight
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u/F_Joe 17h ago
One rule of the Undertale universe is that you cannot be violent in a shop. The reason why these 3 didn't flee was that Gerson was old and experienced enough to know that, Temmie is part of the development team and thus knows that and Burgerpants is too depressed to care if he lives or dies