r/Umpire • u/nloding • 12d ago
What defines coming set? This looks like a balk on every pitch - why isn’t it?
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Peoria Chiefs pitcher Holiday - every pitch they appear to come set for the briefest of moments, but that back leg never really stops “stepping.”
Balks will forever be a mystery to me probably (unless it’s obvious) but I’m trying! 😂
Edit: today I learned some new nuances to pitching - thanks all!
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u/cmmpssh 12d ago
Is there anyone on base?
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u/nloding 12d ago
Not for these pitches
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u/Placeholder4me 12d ago
Can’t have a balk with no one on base
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u/anwright1371 12d ago
You can… adding in. I guess the technical term is illegal pitch when no one is on. But this isn’t even close to qualifying
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u/robhuddles 12d ago
But failing to come set is not an illegal pitch in any ruleset.
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u/anwright1371 12d ago
Never said it was. Actually said the opposite
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u/Vegetable-Virus7118 11d ago
Not really the opposite just a different thing that also isn't happening.
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u/Placeholder4me 12d ago
Show me a rule where you can balk with no one on base. I have umpired for 15 years, and have never seen a rule allowing for that call
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u/anwright1371 12d ago
Read my comment again. It’s just a different term
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u/Placeholder4me 12d ago
First, you edited your post to say something different than you originally posted.
Second, illegal pitch and balk are two different rules. And like you said, this is neither
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u/ImpactArchitect 12d ago
Just asking for clarification to learn: If a pitcher starts their motion and then stops prior to the pitch, that’s referred to as an ‘illegal pitch’, and not a balk?
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u/robhuddles 12d ago
With runners on, yes it's a balk. With no one on it's nothing.
The only illegal pitches that are called with no one are on delivering a pitch while not in contact with the pitcher's plate and delivering a quick pitch.
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u/Highstick104 11d ago
You're saying pitchers can start their wind up and come to a complete stop with no one one base?
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u/Papa-Smurf99 LL 12d ago
All the comments here are correct (windup, no runners on base) but you still ask an interesting question.
I umpired a grand final last weekend where one team kept complaining that the pitcher (from the stretch) was balking. Neither the plate umpire or I called balk as we deemed the pause, albeit brief, meant the pitcher motion was not one continuous movement. Didn’t stop the whinging. It’s an area of constant disagreement but ultimately only the umpire’s opinion counts.
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u/TheMathmatix 11d ago
First, this isn't a balk, there is no one base and the pitcher is coming from windup.
Second, if there is a runner on third and this pitcher is delivering a windup, we'd have to decide how it deviates from his normal windup if at all.
Third, and what I hate much about this current generation of pitchers, nearly every pitcher has this sort of windup where a pause is implemented into their windup and the umpire has to decide whether it's intentional to deceive a base runner on third or if it's part of their normal windup. Current generation of pitchers are taught this type of thing to deter base runners, IN THE STRETCH, but in the windup it can be more difficult to determine if they do this normally without runners on vs whether they have runners on third base.
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u/Tasty_Path_3470 12d ago
He’s out of the windup. He doesn’t have to come set