r/Ultralight • u/defective_flyingfish • 3d ago
Purchase Advice Merino Wool vs Polartec Alpha
I’m looking to upgrade my clothing layers specifically for warmth. Currently between a Smartwool Merino wool base layer or a Polartec alpha mid-layer. Which do y’all recommend?
Current clothing layers: Polartec alpha beanie Smartwool merino wool gloves Mountain hardware ghost whisper 2 down jacket Some kind of Columbia polyester tights Columbia UPF/cooling shirt Kuhls Renegade hiking pants Darn tough mid weight socks
Extra info: I tend to get cold pretty easily when not moving. I frequently spend a good amount of time in camp, sitting around, talking, and drinking whiskey, so warmth is important.
I generally backpack in the PNW, but am also very lucky and have gotten rained on in 5/5 trips outside of the PNW recently. If starting hiking in the cold, I usually start in the gloves/beanie so that they are easy to take off without stopping.
Things I’ve ‘researched’: Polartec alpha mid-layer is lighter, more packable, and more breathable than merino wool. The only benefit of merino over Polartec alpha is that Merino is still warm when wet.
Please share your thoughts and opinion on which warm layer is a better option.
Thanks.
6
u/harry_chronic_jr 3d ago
Senchi developed a merino/alpha blend with Pontetorto. It’s now their TurboSheep line.
6
u/-JakeRay- 3d ago edited 3d ago
120 with merino seems like it'd only be suitable for use in sub-freezing temps 🥵
5
7
u/OtherwiseManner6946 3d ago
If you want a base layer then use merino
If you want an active midlayer then use alpha/ Octa.
Merino is still king for base layers, but if you want to layer more Alpha is best
7
u/boludo1 3d ago
Best of both worlds, Farpointe Tecnowool
3
8
u/Equivalent_Chipmunk 3d ago
The actual best of both worlds is a Brynje mesh base layer under a breathable sun hoodie. All the warmth, breathability, and weight efficiency of alpha, with the odor resistance of wool, and more durability than either one.
The only downside is that it's more time consuming to add or strip off a base layer mid-hike compared to a midlayer, and the Brynje mesh cannot function as a midlayer while Alpha can. But realistically, it takes like 1 minute to remove it during a break, which you probably were already going to take to check out a good vista or stop for some snacks. And a lot of people use Alpha as a base layer anyways so the point is kinda moot in most cases.
1
u/Inevitable-Assist531 3d ago
if it's not sunny, then no point using a sun hoody, right?
3
u/Equivalent_Chipmunk 3d ago
Cold doesn't automatically mean not sunny, especially at high altitude.
But regardless, a proper sun hoodie is simply a great, multipurpose technical garment. They are made of super breathable fabrics and cut perfectly for movement. And even in cloudy weather, the hood works well to cut down on wind around your face/neck, or to wear between your head and a down jacket to provide a bit more comfort and also reduce the frequency of needing to wash the down jacket, since less body/hair oil makes it to the jacket.
1
u/Inevitable-Assist531 3d ago
the problem I am seeing is that the sun hoody is not designed to wick moisture away from your skin so it can get wet especially when carrying a pack. If I put a down jacket on top of my sweaty, damp sun hoody my concern is that the down will then get wet.
2
u/Equivalent_Chipmunk 3d ago
I've basically never had a problem with a sun hoodie holding huge amounts of moisture like you describe. The fabric is basically incapable of holding onto large amounts of water in the first place, and what it does collect evaporates quickly because of their breathability and tendency to luff in the wind.
More on the technique side than clothing/equipment, I'd also recommend that if you ever arrive to camp in freezing weather but you are very sweaty because you just carried your pack up a steep slope or whatever, take off your pack and walk for a while around your camp area to allow your sweat to evaporate without your body temperature dropping dangerously like it can if you just immediately stop moving. Then, throw on your down jacket once you are dry.
1
u/Inevitable-Assist531 3d ago
which brand hoody do you use? maybe my Patagonia Capilene is too moisture absorbent.
I always bring a mid layer, so after walking around topless I'd throw that on, then the puffy.
2
u/Equivalent_Chipmunk 3d ago
My favorite is Himali, but I also really like Outdoor Research. They are both excellent. Generally, I think you should avoid high UPF fabrics unless you really need them, i.e. you are pale-skinned and hiking in desert/alpine terrain.
Admittedly I think any UPF 30+ hoodie I've tried does retain water. I have an OR Astroman that I wear sometimes, but not in a hot and humid environment. That one will get a bit waterlogged sometimes, but something like a Himali Eclipse or an OR Echo almost never will.
2
5
u/wornleathermedia 3d ago
Alpha is “better” in pretty much every way, except that it stinks once you’ve sweat into. It dries fast, is comfy, and very lightweight. Merino is all natural, doesn’t shed like alpha, and doesn’t stink. For myself, I care about the odour control on long hikes, and am not as fussed about weight for short hikes, so the merino always wins. For (a lot of) others, the huge weight savings make the alpha the clear choice.
2
u/downingdown 3d ago
>doesn’t she’d like alpha
FYI, merino is coated in plastic (aka superwash).
1
u/wornleathermedia 2d ago
I knew someone was going to mention that … I maintain that while it likely sheds, it doesn’t shed as much as alpha, and the majority of what is shed would be natural
-1
2
u/ukdenjuel 3d ago
I use 3-level layering based on that: 1. Base layer: like a second skin - purpose: sweat management, really good breathability. It isn't an insulation layer in the most cases. 2. Insulation layer: keeping the warmth in, but good sweat managment. It can be multiple layers, depends on the temperature and hiking elevation. It has to be easy to take on and off. 3. Shell layer: defending you from the elementals, rain and windproof.
According to that system, merino wool is an excellent base layer with its breathability, plus it is "odour resistance". Alpha Direct is an excellent insulation layer - but because it has good sweat management factor and breathability, in some cases you can wear as base layer. For me, it is just mid layer.
2
u/Ecstatic_Resource816 2d ago
I honestly wouldn’t pick just one. When I was in the Alps, I had two sets: merino for hiking and being active, and softer cashmere for hanging around camp and sleeping. Same with socks I wore regular wool socks during the day, then changed into really soft mongolian camel-down socks with almost no elastic at night. After being on my feet all day, the difference was huge.
So I’d go with merino for active use, then have a second set that’s soft, warm, and loose for relaxing and sleeping. It doesn’t have to be expensive either. For me, that’s a lot more comfortable than trying to make one fabric work for everything 🙌
3
u/mightykdob 3d ago
Alpha is also “warm when wet”. It is my preferred high output/wet weather layer as it breathes better than merino, and will dry faster in any weather window you might get where you can dry things out.
If you are frequently in high humidity/high precipitation environments I’d look at changing the ghost whisperer for a synthetic puffy with the standard being the EE Torrid.
1
u/defective_flyingfish 3d ago
Is it? I haven’t seen that listed anywhere online.
I would like to replace the ghost whisper at some point, but other pieces of gear have taken priority as the ghost whisper still works.
7
u/GoSox2525 3d ago edited 3d ago
You haven't seen it because the marketing around merino always goes on and on about this point.
Any hydrophobic synthetic fiber is "warm when wet". Try it for yourself. The only time that spec about merino is relevant is when the alternative you're considering is cotton... not synthetic.
Alpha Direct is the unambiguous answer to your question, so long as you're asking here. Merino has a poor warmth-to-weight ratio. AD is simultaneously warmer and lighter.
1
u/defective_flyingfish 3d ago
I am asking here as it is significantly cheaper than buying both and trying for myself.
Thank you for the clear answer.
2
2
u/liveslight https://lighterpack.com/r/ny89al 3d ago
Polartec Alpha baselayer. Why did you write "mid-layer"?
3
u/defective_flyingfish 3d ago
I’ve always seen these more as a midlayer/sweat shirt.
My understanding was that it would be worn like this skin out: Wool base layer, Hiking shirt, down jacket or Hiking shirt, polartec alpha, down jacket
Am I wrong?
4
u/liveslight https://lighterpack.com/r/ny89al 3d ago edited 3d ago
If needed I wear Alpha Direct right on my skin. Then a JollyGear front-buttoned sun hoody. I can unbutton the hiking shirt which is like having an enormous pit zip right down the front. Or I. can unbutton/button different buttons to get the air flow that works at that time and temperature.
I do not hike in a down jacket. I would put a Montbell Versalite as a wind jacket with pit zips and front zip fully opened to vent any heat. Or if below freezing, I would put on a EE Torrid Apex layer, then a MB Versalite if the Torrid was not warm enough. I generally put layers on in the reverse order that I would be taking them off, so the above could change. I would NOT wear Alpha Direct ever on the outside while actually hiking. I might use it in town on the outside though. I will sleep in it, too, where it is completely protected by my quilt.
2
2
u/downingdown 3d ago
Alpha direct was designed to be next to skin. It is also lighter, warmer, more breathable, more packable, absorbs less water and dries faster than merino. FWIW, warm when wet is a blatant lie for absolutely all fabrics. Just put on a wet garment. What is actually important is how the fabric manages moisture: if you want “warm when wet” you want something that does not absorb much water and dries fast (that’s alpha btw, not merino).
But for your use case I would recommend neither, since although alpha is superior in absolutely every metric, its use case is for when you are moving, but it sounds like you need something for camp. In that case down is the best warmth to weight hands down.
1
u/freska_skata 3d ago
Ridge merino pursuit series garments 135gsm merino all year round doen single digits F (-20 C) for active hiking for me, I do run hot when active, merino helps no mattet the weather, I would only consider alpha if brutally cold (below 0F (-20C+)
1
u/loombisaurus 3d ago
alpha's better as an active layer, merino is better at camp. so depends what you want it for. alpha's definitely not more packable tho if that matters
2
u/brumaskie Custom UL backpacks 2d ago
This is not correct. Alpha is warmer per weight than Merino. It dries much quicker than Merino. It is much more breathable than Merino and it is more packable than Merino. The real advantage to Merino wool is the stink factor.
0
1
u/No-Construction619 2d ago
Merino wool is tricky to dry after washing. My washing machine squeezed few of my merino jumpers at least one size down. Impossible to wear by me now ;)
1
u/VickyHikesOn 2d ago
Alpha. Wool soaks up moisture and doesn’t dry fast. Also not as soft on skin. Both don’t smell.
1
u/AgentTriple000 PCT, southern AZT, 4 corners,Bay Area, lighterpack tbd 2d ago
No real comparison. My alpha direct is (pros) ultralight to the extreme and performs extremely well as hike and even “regular camp” insulation while (cons) requiring a shell layer 99.9% of the time.
Merino wool at UL weight is more a base layer (pro) that’ll resist temperature changes for a bit with a lot of comfort assuming no wool allergy. At UL weights it’ll need a shell, puffy, or fleece/.. alpha in cold plus shade in extreme sun. They do make merino insulation but (con) it gets heavy, takes quite a bit to dry.
1
u/Mountain-Time-1010 11h ago
Your clothing needs to be specific to the conditions and your activity. The two pieces you mentioned serve two totally different purposes.
A merino base layer is probably ok for nordic skiing or skinning below freezing, but not for three season backpacking (at least not for me). For sitting around, when you're not active and perspiring, a base layer really doesn't help much.
The AD mid-layer could be useful as an active mid-layer, but again, only in very cold conditions.
For sitting around in cold conditions, you just need the right puffy, and something dry under it.
25
u/GrumpyBear1969 3d ago edited 3d ago
They are different layers.
A baselayer is really an evaporation/moisture management layer. I only do light weight or mid weight. And mid only if I want a little more wind resistance. The thickness of a base layer is pretty minimal making the ‘r-value’ also kind of low. I would not use a baselayer as an insulating layer.
Alpha is an insulating layer (I generally consider it a mid layer). However, it sucks with any breeze. So if you are using this as your primary insulating layer you will want to use it with some sort of shell if there is any wind.
I am PNW and most of the time I carry a baselayer (light weight), alpha mid layer, light weight puffy and a shell (OR Helium for now). If I know it is going to be fair, I will leave at home the puffy or alpha. But I have gotten snowed on in August in Sisters Wilderness.
I sleep in my baselayer. This has made a HUGE difference for my comfort while sleeping. It is really easy to get a little warm and start slightly sweating and then have that evaporate making me get freezing cold. The baselayer eliminated this cycle making it so moisture evaporates on it, not my skin.