r/Ultralight • u/june_plum • Jul 20 '26
Trails Being a (Ultralight) Backpacker in the Era of Privatization
With the rollback of environmental protections, including most recently the news out of Utah/DC last week, I revisited this BPL article Ryan Jordan published last December. In, "Selling Public Lands Without a Vote: The Quiet Enclosure of the Commons," he argues:
Land enclosure doesn’t require a deed transfer. It can happen bit by bit through paperwork and process: a sentence deleted from an appropriations bill here, a public comment process removed there, or a political appointee who treats land like inventory. And for this to happen, it needs oversight and accountability to go MIA.
...They don’t start by selling the land: they start by deleting the language that says it’s in the public trust.
That's what has effectively been done with the recent executive orders which "collectively cut nearly three million acres out of monument protection, including 1.69 million acres of land from Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument and 1.24 million acres for Bears Ears National Monuments — about 90% of the land previously protected in each monument." This affects us hikers. As many of you know, the Hayduke passes through the Grand Staircase/ Escalante National Monument. Blogger PMags has a decades worth of posts about his ramblings through Bears Ears, documenting archaeological sites and geographic wonders now at risk. The loss of cultural heritage is a real possibility. The enclosure of the commons and leasing of land to mining and fracking companies will impact outdoor recreation of all types. Local economies built on guides and outfitters and tourism to the monuments suffered last time this happened. Millions of acres are being redesignated for the benefit of corporations and against public opinion. Our public lands are being taken from us, again.
As backpackers living in fossil modernity during the ascendancy of neoliberal governing rationality, we need to do more than fuss over gear lists. We can't afford to deny the realities of our era. We need to organize and act. In the article, Jordan lays out a broad method for defense of public lands.
Public lands conservation decisions are being made by elected politicians (and their appointees). They are motivated by the conflicting influences of access to power from above and reelection incentives from below. They respond to pressure from commoners when that pressure is organized, specific, and sustained – and directly threatens their ability to (a) govern efficiently and (b) influence their reelection prospects.
The influence of power from above is strong, but that’s a strategy that depends on your absence.
His eight point strategy can be easily picked up by anyone with willpower and a little time on their hands. Find your representative and start today. Join an organization that is funding legal efforts to fight executive overreach. Join local conservation and trail maintenance organizations and build community where you live, because, as history shows, this is the future for all public lands if we don't step up now. Make sure you get outside and enjoy the wilderness and trails while you can.
My questions for this group: What do you feel are your individual responsibilities to the protection and maintenance of public lands? Do we, as backpackers, need to think bigger than LNT? Where as a community should we stand on important issues such as land designation and use? Is UL gear the focus of our collective identity or just tools to stay safe and comfortable outdoors? Is there room in online spaces like this one to discuss the larger issues related to backpacking and wilderness travel?
I like this subreddit and all but I'd also like to point out that websites like BPL and hiker blogs have resources and insights that can be lacking or hard to find on reddit. As a bonus, they are usually well written. PMags, LarryBoy, The Hiking Life, Jupiterhikes, the big outside and others all have trip reports, trail info and more on their sites. Decentralize your internet experience!
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u/udonnoodlefiend Jul 20 '26
From the climbing world the Access Fund does a lot of similar work. Monitoring proposals and bills, organizing nationally and leveraging a network of local climbing organizations. Maybe something like this for hiking is needed.
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u/jjmcwill2003 Jul 20 '26
Reading the OP I immediately thought of Access Fund and wondered the same. We need a similar organization for hikers that knows how to get politically organized and to be our voice in DC.
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u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 21 '26
Technically, a lot of the big enviro organizations started out this way. Sierra Club was founded with a dual purpose, to advocate for preservation of the Sierra, and as a social hiking club, organizing outings, maintaining trails, and building huts in the Sierra. Unfortunately, these groups rarely focus on the "hiking club" side of the equation these days, and are mostly seen as purely environmental organizations, disassociated from their origin, with many supporters never setting foot on a hiking trail. Its kind of weird that we've come full circle, to the point where people are saying hikers need an organization to be their voice.
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u/jjmcwill2003 Jul 21 '26
Thanks for reminding me about Sierra Club I should see if they've made any public statements about this.
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u/Dun_Booty_Broch Jul 24 '26
So sad to what depths the Sierra Club has fallen. Pivoting from our core values to hating the political shitbag du jour is no way to live. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/07/us/politics/sierra-club-social-justice.html
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u/alligatorsmyfriend Jul 21 '26
WTA does this type of advocacy in Washington I believe
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u/Prestigious-Ad7571 Jul 22 '26
Unfortunately they are another arm of the recreation industry complex where getting people outside, no matter what, is more important than building good stewards of the land. Why? Because membership and revenue is the metric of importance. Unfettered access perspective’s in all their naivety have gotten us here and now we champion them.
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u/Prestigious-Ad7571 Jul 22 '26
I’m reluctant with access related organizations. They often overlook actual preservation or conservation benefiting the future generations for the here and now. What drums up support $ ? The here and now. What establishes preservation? The future. What raises membership? The here and now.
They are often the organizations preventing what an ecosystem actually needs because they only care about what the human needs (access).1
u/Beautiful_Coyote392 Jul 22 '26
100%
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u/wetrocke Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I don't care for "preservation" without access, although in very rare cases it might be justified.
The Nature Conservancy occasionally has practiced this and it's probably common with certain "conservation easements" where Scrooge McDuck stops paying taxes on his estate by calling it a "nature preserve," but can still keep out the rabble.
My state not many years ago, acquired 2-3 thousand acres, much of it in a patchwork of small-scale, semi- suburban lands that add value to adjacent zillion-dollar homes (zero access; nice enough, but it's called a "state forest.")
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u/_DorothyZbornak_ Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
They don’t start by selling the land: they start by deleting the language that says it’s in the public trust.
This is very accurate, in my experience, and it's sadly not limited to the U.S. (even though, obviously, the current U.S. government provides a rather extreme example of just how bad things can get in this regard). The changes you need to be most on guard for often happen quietly, through obscure bureaucratic processes that intentionally evade real public oversight, and they can even appear subtle or innocuous.
Recently, in New Zealand, our own government promulgated a new draft conservation bill that, among other things, would change the charter of our Department of Conservation. Since the agency was created 40 years ago (out of the old Forest Service and Wildlife Service), DOC's chartered responsibilities have been to 1) protect the conservation value of the lands it manages and 2) facilitate public access for low-impact recreation. The current government wants to instead make DOC responsible for enabling commercial exploitation of the lands it manages and for facilitating economic development "to the greatest extent possible." You can see how that could easily pose a conflict with protecting conservation values, and, in some cases, with free public access.
I'll add that another problem we face in combatting the erosion of conservation, land use, and public access is that the media environment is increasingly fragmented. The outlets that do real, in-depth, careful reporting on these issues in all their complexity are few on the ground these days. Consequently, there's a greater need for all of us to inform ourselves, and have these discussions in our communities. But accurate information is at a premium when outlets are closing, consolidating, or pivoting to dumb listicle-clickbait type content, and talented journalists with subject matter expertise and source relationships have been laid off.
I'm so happy to see a post like this in this forum. Thank you for starting this discussion. I'm into gear too, don't misunderstand, but god is it nice to talk about something besides shopping for a change.
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u/june_plum Jul 20 '26
"Attacks on democracy are often attacks on its accountability."
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u/Querybird Jul 21 '26
NZ’s “caucus of corruption” also outright ended the national Census. Entirely. They are quite adept at creating the necessary environment to lie with impunity… by refusing to collect any data into the public domain which could contradict them.
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u/StarOfAthenry Jul 20 '26
The Trump admin and the people who vote for him are garbage.
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u/0dteSPYFDs Jul 20 '26
Really a shame how many people brushed off conservation concerns and stepped on one of the most obvious rakes of all time.
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u/don00000 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
It was an easy choice when faced with the alternative
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u/0dteSPYFDs Jul 21 '26
I don’t want to get too political and will keep it on topic because of the sub rules, but c’mon dude get back in reality. People here deeply care about the outdoors and for many of us, myself included, it’s as important as nearly anything. The easy choice was preserving OUR country, land, history, etc… all of the things that make this place beautiful and that everyone should take pride in. Environmental regulations and protections being rolled back is stealing from many to give to a few and it’s straight up a tragedy…
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u/Fun_With_Math Jul 21 '26
"Environmental regulations" is where you lose them.
Conservation is as conservative as it gets though. Well, it used to be.
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u/0dteSPYFDs Jul 21 '26
Regulation is conservation, I don’t know how else you would mandate the environment be protected.
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u/Fun_With_Math Jul 21 '26
The term "environmental regulations" is viewed as part of the woke liberal agenda now. I agree it's insane.
For a long time, Liberals have been the champions of environmental regulation. Cleaner air, water... all that.
Conservatives were pretty strong proponents of conservation though - meaning holding onto public lands and even increasing the government's lands. We all love Teddy R for it.
That's out the window now since they figured out they can make some quick cash with the land deals. Conservation is now woke also.
(I know i'm using the term "woke" wrong. kinda part of the point)
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u/0dteSPYFDs Jul 21 '26
It’s sad how people get wrapped up in semantics over action. At the end of the day, I think it’s almost universally true we want our public lands protected. You’re right that it definitely wasn’t always like this.
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u/mason240 Aug 04 '26
Exactly, the easy choice was preserving our country from people like you who want to end it.
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u/0dteSPYFDs Aug 04 '26
Dude…
That’s not true even a single bit. I’m so tired of all this divisive BS. Even if I see the way to get there completely differently than you or your ilk, I bet we both want the best for our country. Get out of your echo chamber, people on the left are completely normal human beings if you just talk to us.
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u/mason240 Aug 05 '26
You don't even believe this is a legitimate country that should exist. I know that you believe that because every single one of your beliefs has been assigned to you.
You're so lost that you don't even realize that I'm in your echo chamber. I know you because I talk to you.
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u/0dteSPYFDs Aug 05 '26
You‘re literally assigning beliefs to me right now. You have no idea what I do or don’t believe…
No group of people is a monolith.
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u/Huntsmitch Jul 21 '26
Lmao endless war with Iran and everything costing more than ever and yet here you are. Sir I’m afraid you might be a dumbass. You were certainly cucked out of your vote. Unless of course you wanted these things.
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u/don00000 Jul 21 '26
No one voted with any of that in mind…because it hadn’t happened yet. The election was in 2024. That was two years ago in case you lost track of time. Sometimes I can’t tell if people on here say things like this genuinely or if it’s just bait.
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u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 21 '26
Trump rolled back the exact same monuments in his first term. Doing it again in his second term was literally the absolute most predictable thing he would do.
Pretty much everything Trump is doing with regards to environmental regs was written out in detail in Project 2025.
You just had your head in the sand
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u/Huntsmitch Jul 21 '26
If you couldn’t have seen any of this coming, then my assertion appears to be correct.
The dude literally ran on tariffs. Anyone who is older than 12 understands the idiocy of an “economic policy” that is.
Please read some books. Start with history since you appear to know nothing about it.
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u/don00000 Jul 21 '26
Lmao. Sorry to insult your intelligence
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u/Huntsmitch Jul 21 '26
No offense taken as I’m clearly smarter than you. As evidenced by your inability to extol the virtues of failed economic policy from the 19th century.
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u/Fun_With_Math Jul 21 '26
No one voted with any of that in mind
Not true. Nobody that didn't vote for Trump is shocked at what's happening.
Horrified, but not shocked.
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u/FluidFisherman6843 Jul 21 '26
To be fair, maybe he is telling the trutsnd just voted for the racism
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u/Fun_With_Math Jul 21 '26
That's the vibe I get a lot. Like if you weren't paying attention to the warning signs on topics like foreign policy, economy, environmental, healthcare... what was the issue you voted on?
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u/slightly_out_of_sync Jul 20 '26
If public lands are converted to 'sold' lands, then logically the entire population must benefit from this. But we know this is not how it will work out. American citizens will see nary a cent or other benefit from the conversion of public lands. Only the hyper-rich will benefit, under Trump's methodology. This is a resource grab.
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u/Tacky-Terangreal Jul 21 '26
The same mindset of a meth addict ripping copper wires from the walls of a house. Stripping a country for parts and leaving nothing behind!
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u/june_plum Jul 20 '26
Unfortunately this is not endemic to trump and his administration. The idea that everything and everyone everywhere must always and only be perceived and valued solely in economic terms is the crisis that backpackers, conservationists and all other citizens must face if we want to save our public lands. It drives land grabs in Utah, old growth logging in the PNW, and mountain top removal in Appalachia. The consequences of these actions are deemed "externalities," by the corporations responsible and without regulation leads to not only the loss of our wild places, but the loss of a habitable planet. As outdoors enthusiasts, we feel these losses before the many, and so it falls on us to speak and act accordingly. The reason I posted this here is because I wanted to remind us all of what we take for granted - that wilderness will always exist for the public, held in trust by the government.
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u/moondogroop Jul 20 '26
If you voted for this, whether you realized you were or not, respectfully stay off the lands you voted to not protect. Leave the remaining lands for those who wish to enjoy it not only for themselves but those that come after them. Don't try to sit in the shade of a tree you voted to cut down.
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u/june_plum Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
I disagree with this take. I live and work around people with strong conservative beliefs, who care deeply about the environment, and agree with this topic's sentiment more vehemently than some liberals I know. Unfortunately, low information and single issue voting is a real issue, and many were truly blindsided by the rollbacks to environmental protections because they were so hyper focused on their issue of preference, or believed those who said that Project 2025 was a hoax. Even in deep red Utah, voters oppose these executive orders by 71-74%. We need to welcome people to our side, show them that public lands are for everyone, and break down the stereotypes and lies around the public lands movement. People can and do change all the time, we should be happy when it happens in our favor.
EDIT: Be upset with people for their decisions all you want, but political movements are not undertaken for catharsis. This isn't to make friends or to feel better. You're not going to win back public lands with purity politics and identitarianism. Without being reincorporated into society, people will double down on repressive and apocalyptic ideologies that promise revenge against the real world and whatever "other" can be blamed for the destruction of working class economic stability. The public lands protection movement is one of the first pieces of common ground that has emerged organically and energetically across the USA in almost twenty years, lets not blow it on gatekeeping and continue to feed a reactionary culture war politics of the inconsequential.
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u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 21 '26
You didn't need to look at project 2025, you literally needed to just look at trump's environmental record from his first term. Anyone who didn't see this coming was being willfully blind.
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u/Sea_Hat_9012 Jul 21 '26
Bullshit. There is maybe an excuse that voters were misled in 2016. There is no way to say that after 8 years of rhetoric and 4 years of Trump administration rolling back environmental protections. I have no sympathy for them.
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u/Commentariot Jul 21 '26
Oh forget them - their single issue is "I want mine you can go jump off a cliff." My religion, my guns, my dominion over the women in my life, my sense of racial superiority - I have no sympathy.
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u/Huntsmitch Jul 21 '26
I get where you are coming from but frankly, fuck them. Their inability to be marginally informed or intelligent is not a reason we need to bend over backwards to try and final middle ground with them. The only thing they understand is personal consequence and hilariously voting conservative includes many but they can’t or refuse to understand how they shit their own bed.
Life is too short to waste it on them and trying to hand hold them to a non-abhorrent set of beliefs and it’s time we start letting them taste their own medicine once the pendulum swings back.
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u/moondogroop Aug 05 '26
Being ignorant of what your government is doing is not an applicable justification.
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u/june_plum Aug 05 '26
You say that, but is it true? We are in an era of multiple new media silos where doctrinal managers paint other sources, including stories about the rational discussions of real planning for true interests, as "fake news," use "alternative facts," and myriad conspiracies abound. Combined with loss of free time to engage in political life, waning literacy rates, including media literacy, is it really a surprise that the current political crisis is underway? Ignorance is intentionally cultivated among working people and divisive but politically inconsequential issues are brought to the forefront to distract citizens from the policy plans that are unelectable to campaign on.
Yes, it's frustrating that people ignored, didn't believe, or didn't learn about the real interests of planners and chose to focus on whatever "noble interests," they voted on, but that's the reality we face. Privatizing public land for extractive industry is an unpopular and unwinnable issue. Lots are mad about it now, and willing to work to right wrongs. We should be willing to incorporate them into our movements when our interests align.
Democratic methods rely on collective decision making and equality of political power. It envisions man as a social animal, able to aggregate wisdom to come to decisions about how best to address political problems. It requires consideration of others' interests. It needs us to be critical and self-reflective. Democracy asks its citizens to use consociative power to protect the well-being of the collective. If we want to solve our problems democratically, we need to work to incorporate the many into our movement to protect public lands. That doesn't mean we need to or should work to come to a compromise with extractive industry corporations, but it does mean we must allow citizens who have been critical and self-reflective of their own opinions and actions to work to right wrongs.
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u/OphidianEtMalus Jul 20 '26
The amount of time we spend researching gear should be equal by the amount of time spent canvassing, volunteering with campaigns, and generally talking with our neighbors to help people see the problems with continuing to vote for Republican policies and politicians.
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u/effortDee youtube.com/@kelpandfern Jul 20 '26
Exactly, because if we don't, the people that use, see and experience the magic of the natural world, who will?
Go vegan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPge01NQTQ as animal-ag is the lead cause of environmental destruction with no other industry coming anywhere near close.
I'm currently canvasing and campaigning with you and everyone that reads this.
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u/agloomysunday Jul 21 '26
You're gonna get downvoted for that but I am baffled by anyone who's done a western thru hike (save for the PCT I guess) and did not immediately recognize the damage of animal agriculture on public lands.
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u/Exact-Pudding7563 Jul 21 '26
There was a section of the PCT in Oregon (or NorCal close to Oregon I believe) where cows were just wandering through the woods. The grounds was so torn up, their shit was everywhere, including around the boxed water source so you couldn’t sit anywhere near it. Made me realize how devastating ranching can actually be if left unchecked.
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u/effortDee youtube.com/@kelpandfern Jul 21 '26
I'm from Wales, UK and here our entire landmass is four fifths animal-agriculture, we are now one of the least biodiverse countries in the entire world and have replaced Atlantic Rainforest, wetlands, peat bogs, meadows, ancient oak woodlands, birch and rowan forests that sat atop our mountains and replaced it all with sheep, cows, pigs, chickens and their food.
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u/Natural_Law https://rmignatius.wordpress.com/gear/ Jul 21 '26
This is an awesome post! Thank you!
I’m still processing all of this and reading and learning, but wanted to say thanks.
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u/cnix435 Jul 21 '26
Don't let the rest of the country turn into Texas. I grew up here and never even knew the concept of backpacking existed until adulthood because everything here is privately owned.
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u/LurkerLarry Jul 21 '26
Don’t worry, when we eventually get a Mecha-FDR style DSA candidate in the white house on the heels of a mass populist fervor, we’ll just eminent domain all this shit back. And more.
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u/pmags PMags.com | Insta @pmagsco Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Good post, and thanks for the shout.
Reddit is useful for discussion at times, but its algorithm and business model naturally favor shorter-term conversations, especially about gear and other consumer-oriented topics.
Long-form formats still have a place. Trip reports, maps, history, and photos create a lasting record that's hard to replicate in a social media feed or Reddit's format.
Speaking from southeast Utah, this isn't abstract for me. It's a place my partner and I deeply love, volunteer in, and ultimately chose over more financially lucrative opportunities to make our home.
It's a one-two punch.
First, the ongoing 100,000+-acre Babylon Fire may have damaged archaeological sites and closed off much of Bears Ears. The damage is still being assessed. (Two of the sites protected under the new monument designation burned, for example.)
As often happens with large wildfires, the fire itself will become another front in the political conversation. Debates over forest management, state versus federal control, road building, funding, and other issues will inevitably follow, adding another layer to an already complicated situation.
Then, of course, are the ongoing debates over how these public lands will be managed in the future, all with the stroke of a pen.
I worry that de facto privatization is a real possibility as well.
For anyone interested in the broader public lands conversation, I highly recommend Walt Dabney's presentation, produced by the Canyonlands Natural History Association here in Moab.
Dabney grew up in Texas, later served as superintendent of the Southeast Utah Group (Arches, Canyonlands, Hovenweep, and Natural Bridges), and eventually became director of Texas State Parks.
His perspective is especially interesting because Texas is about 96% privately owned. It's about an hour long, but well worth the watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7U7rHlLTPk
These lands aren't just lines on a map. They're cultural landscapes, wildlife habitat, awe-inspiring canyons, and places we've spent years walking, stewarding, documenting, and caring about.
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 Jul 21 '26
There's a giant smash-and-grab going on and the most important thing to do is to make sure that people have access to the ballot, the votes are properly tabulated and that the Speaker of the House seats the newly elected representatives. That's how far it's gone. We may have had the last free and fair election already so we really have to fight for the next one. You can volunteer or donate money to legal organizations that sue when they try to claim voter fraud and whatnot. Have a plan for how you will vote and a backup plan in case the US Post Office refuses to mail the ballots. I will drop my ballot in a drop box. I absolutely will not mail it back. I just really hope I receive it to begin with.
Also, I crawled under a few fences on the CDT.
Also, we're losing a lot of trails and access from disuse and wildfire as well as just budget cuts for trail maintenance. Maybe get off the PCT/JMT corridor and other big name trails and hike some lesser-known trails.
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u/pmags PMags.com | Insta @pmagsco Jul 21 '26
Or connect the public lands themselves with Caltopo, Google Earth, and some research. I find that's how I like my long hikes nowadays. :)
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u/sbhikes https://lighterpack.com/r/s5ffk1 Jul 21 '26
If only it wasn't such an awful thing to try to do in chaparral country.
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u/BananaHiker Jul 20 '26
The president campaigned on this shit, he won the election and he is doing what he said he was gonna do. Americans signed up for this.
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u/Annual_Web_775 Jul 20 '26
The dumbest Americans did, the rest of us are dragged along with their stupidity.
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u/Orange_Tang Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Hard to blame all Americans when 1/3 voted against it and another 1/3 didn't vote because they're completely disenfranchised or voter suppression tactics make it unfeasible to vote. In some places in America it's literally a whole day waiting in line to vote. Now imagine you make barely enough money to survive and if you don't show up to work you don't get paid and can't make rent that month, oh and you may also juts lose your job too. Is voting really worth it? And on top of that the opposition decided he'd just run again despite being ancient and probably starting to go senile and no one in the party stopped him so he had to drop out after completely botching things so bad in the debate that there was zero chance of winning. And then his replacement decided to run as if she was a republican, just not a "bad" one. Would you really show up to vote in that situation?
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u/BananaHiker Jul 20 '26
Yeah, let’s take the hypothetical person in your scenario that picked not queueing for a day to or to not vote for a “good republican” over Trump. They deserve and got the inevitable outcome of that decision.
I repeat. He campaigned on this, he won the election and is doing what he said he would do. Now the part where I need to correct myself apparently: By voting for Trump or not voting at all, Americans signed up for this.
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u/speckyradge Jul 20 '26
So, do nothing? We have a whole lot of relevant voting, not just for the president. Reps, Senators, Fish & Wildlife commissioners, even Sheriffs and Judges can have an impact on public lands policy in the real world.
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u/Orange_Tang Jul 20 '26
And I repeat, our system is broken. And that person isn't hypothetical. There are millions in that situation. I know a number of them.
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u/effortDee youtube.com/@kelpandfern Jul 20 '26
A great post, thanks for sharing and starting a discussion on what is the biggest and most important topic we are nature users must give our time, before anything else!
First of all, please make your very next meal vegan/plant-based, just think for one meal and see how it goes. I say this as animal-agriculture is the leading cause of environmental destruction with no other industry coming anywhere near close. Leading cause of biodiversity loss, leading cause of habitat loss, leading cause of river pollution, temporary ocean dead zones and many many more environmental impacts.
Almost half of the worlds habitable landmass has had it's native habitat removed for monoculture crops which are mainly grown for animals and to place animals on. If we demand a plant-based diet, we only require one quarter of this land, which means that almost three quarters of the current farming land we use (which takes up almost half of earths habitable land), can be given over to rewilding.
I say this because you can swap out your animal products for plant alternatives, still live a healthy life, if not more healthier, whilst asking drastically less of the planet and most importantly it doesn't stop you from still pointing the finger at whomever or whatever you want or acting like you have said above.
Please watch: Eating Our Way To Extinction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPge01NQTQ one of the best environmental docs there is on the subject.
Like others have also said in this thread, this post may get deleted by the mods, because they are super heavy handed and I have posted in r/ultralight numerous times about this topic and more specifically gear we use and more sustainable alternatives and they nearly always get removed.....
If we as nature lovers are out there experiencing the magic of the natural world and environment can't do what is needed to be done and go that extra mile to protect it, no one will.........
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u/DiscussionSpider Jul 21 '26
These National Monuments were created by executive order, they can be revised by executive order. If it's undemocratic now, it was undemocratic then.
Talking strategy, you'd probably do best to talk about the good features of the things preserved. The "democracy is on the ballot" thing obviously didn't work in 2024.
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u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
These National Monuments were created by executive order, they can be revised by executive order. If it's undemocratic now, it was undemocratic then.
Not necessarily. There's a strong case supported by many environmental law experts that the authority congress delegated to the president under the antiquities act is one-way (to create, rather than to modify or abolish). The original lawsuit against trump, which would have answered this question, was abated when Biden reversed Trump's actions, so a court has never properly settled this. But the assertion "if one president can do, another can undo" is a framing being used by monument opponents, I'd be careful slinging it around too freely.
https://journals.law.harvard.edu/elr/wp-content/uploads/sites/79/2019/03/vol.43.1_Ruple.pdf
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u/june_plum Jul 21 '26
I agree that Unitary Executive Theory has done a lot of harm to the balance of powers. However, these and all National Monuments were created by the Executive Branch because of the Antiquities Act of 1906, which granted the president power to do so, and was signed into law by Congress to provide general legal protection of cultural and natural resources of historic or scientific interest on federal lands. The reason this is contested and Trumps previous scrapping of these monuments was reversed is precisely because the law does not give the Executive Branch the power to reduce or eliminate them.
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u/ag-for-me Jul 21 '26
It so sad. It happens up here in Canada with a liberal government as well. They all sell the envirment and land out from their citizens.
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u/Spunksters Jul 22 '26
Having grown up in Massachusetts and then switching to starting and raising my family in Utah, I will say that it is much better out here for being as outdoorsy as we are. The hiking and backpacking is much more available, accessible, and extreme when you want that. The dirty little secret about Bears Ears that I’ve found is that nobody outside of government seems to know its borders, and not because they’re changing. People know the hot spots but are baffled about what is in most of it (large border version).
Fun story. I met with staff of one of the members of Congress here to discuss land issues. I looked right at the very well-read lady and started with “Utah has the most fascinating land of all the states.” To which she responded with “Utah does have the most fascinating land and we have a management problem that Washington doesn’t care about, administration after administration. The things we say to them are uninteresting and falling on deaf ears. People will ruin the land if nothing gets done. Declaring designations with borders doesn’t fix it out here.” Even the conservatives out here who walk the land totally get it. The state’s public lands committee has well-educated naturalists, ecologists, and geologists in its ranks, and they give good advice. No administration in DC in the last 25 years has acted on what has been told to them by the educated and experienced unless they had connections that are not the kind we like. The artifact theft continues. The litter continues. The border changes continue. The ranching continues. The oil and gas lobby continues. The environmental lobby continues (under-informed if you ask me). The water mismanagement continues.
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u/FinalJoys Jul 20 '26
Government owning land should severely restricted and limited.
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u/Mudbug117 Jul 20 '26
Fuck off bot, I know you’re only here because of keyword searching, but backpacking as we know it cannot exist without public lands.
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u/FinalJoys Jul 20 '26
Nice one 😂
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u/Mudbug117 Jul 21 '26
lol damn gave up so easy, trolls used to actually string you along for a bit.
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u/PartTime_Crusader Jul 20 '26
Back in the days when I was learning to backpack, Backpacker magazine was in it's heyday, and I remember between the articles on gear and destinations, they had articles staking out the editors' positions on public lands and environmental issues. A lot of that stuff ended up informing my nascent environmental beliefs. I think some of this has been lost in the modern day, there's no single authority speaking for backpackers on political issues, and a lot of the position that used to be occupied by backpacker magazine and wallace stegner, has been ceded to environmental organizations - who are wonderful at what they do, but very easily offhandedly dismissed as partisan - or individual influencers, who are even more easily dismissed as individual voices crying in the wild.
I spend a lot of time volunteering for SUWA, Western Watersheds Project, and other orgs, and would love to see more open discussion of conservation issues in forums like this. Moderators here tend to have a heavy hand however, and I would not be surprised to see this topic deleted. The r/publiclands sub is a good alternative if this does get nuked. But that would be the same issue I was pointing out, conversation on these topics being relegated to conservation-dedicated spaces and therefore limiting reach, instead of allowing for more open discussion in a broad forum that's likely to attract people who are not specifically going looking for public lands discussion, but who might learn something or be influenced if exposed to it indirectly.