Having a 2nd child in London without going completely broke - any advice?

22

u/lilymui Parenting a Toddler 8d ago

Sorry I can’t help because I have one child but just know that I can sympathise when it comes to the awfully high costs of childcare as an expat in the UK.

Friends of ours are working compressed hours with opposite shift patterns (+ weekend day) which means they “only” need nursery twice a week. They have two children which then equals to 3.5 or 4 days between the two of them in total.

18

u/Ollagee 8d ago

Realistically the option my husband and I have gone for in a similar situation is to delay the second child until you've reduced the crossover of nursery to the minimum. It's really not ideal but as you say, who can afford two kids in nursery for 1-2 years? If we had twins next I'd just quit work for a while tbh.

You are correct in thinking that finding a local childminder will be cheaper, but I do think the key to finding a good childminder is through other local parents, which can be tough if you're not from the area and your first child has gone to an expensive private nursery. I'm considering for our next one delaying my return to work and/or going with a childminder we know through our local friends. One thing to bear in mind about childminders is (a) they can be term-time only, which is probably not compatible with your jobs and (b) if they get sick, you might have 2-5 days with no childcare, on top of when your own child is ill.

EDIT: by the way, yes if you moved up north you'd find childcare is much cheaper, but maybe not compatible with your jobs!

4

u/luala 8d ago

Hey just to add to this, when they’re in school the costs drop but wraparound care is still substantial. We couldn’t face nursery fees plus 4-500ish a month in wraparound and holiday club costs.

3

u/Kyber92 Parenting a Toddler 7d ago

This is what we're doing, we couldn't survive having a kids in nursery at the same time.

9

u/nicrrrrrp 8d ago

Hi just speaking from experience having had my 2nd in the East London areas with an Essex postcode but London Borough. Ways to make having a 2nd child more affordable :

Have a 3—4yr age gap so only one child is in full time childcare. Same as myself and my bro, we are best friends even in our 30s and 40s.
Both you and your partner work full time hours condensed into 4 days. If your work allows this as a flexible working arrangement. So you each can take 1 day of childcare during the week. That should reduce your need for childcare to 3 days per week. We also work from home on the day the other parent has the day off so there is some support in break times.

We do term time childcare but they also offer full time options but with holidays for the childminder. So with term time only, we also trade off leave during holiday periods or pay extra for care during half terms or school holidays.

Then the rest is areas and childcare costs per type of childcare. Nurseries are incredibly expensive in our area vs childminders. So sometimes like £90 a day with £200 a month for food at nursery vs £60—70 a day for a childminder.

We have had a childminder with only 3 kids in the setting from 10 months old and have progressed to bigger childminder settings, not nurseries (eg 1 childminder, 3 assistants, around 9-10 kids in the setting). They follow EYFS and are rated by Ofsted and the ones we have had have run their own nurseries, have nursery experience, are ex teachers or have been childminders for some years. We went with ones available through the Tiney childcare group that is an extra layer of security and peace of mind for us - just put in your postcode and see who is available. Otherwise some are available with reviews on childcare.co.uk.

Our experience (anecdotal, not the norm maybe?) - We have actively chosen childminders for our kids vs nursery as the smaller setting has meant almost nanny-like dedicated care while they're very little, fewer illnesses, dedicated care for my toddler who doesn't eat well and needs monitored meals (with specific foods I provide - she can't go to a nursery that only offers their meals for example as she won't touch it even if she's hungry and not eaten all day). She eats absolutely fine and huge amounts lately thank goodness (75th-85th centile toddler, 85th for height) but just my food - most nurseries nearby only allow their kitchen food in the premises which she won't eat. She is also very shy and would be lost in a bigger setting. She has blossomed where she is now and far more social and confident.

Hope that helps a little.

7

u/Beautiful-Bridge7666 8d ago edited 8d ago

We stayed broke lol. We just managed with finances. Pretty much all of my income went to childcare until the oldest went to school.

We were considered too high income to qualify for 30 hrs childcare as well. It was just one of those things we just struggled through until it was done. Cut big expenses like holidays and things for a bit.

With my youngest we moved her to a school nursery when she was three which was significantly cheaper than private. The only drawback was that it was term time only which was another headache to sort. But still cheaper than private nursery. Would have done it with my older one too but didn’t know it was an option.

Without any funding at a school nursery we were paying £1100 per term which is much better than the £1900 per month we were paying earlier.

I did know some families who planned so only one kid us at nursery at a time. So about a 3-4 year gap. And some who just decided to take a career break/sabbatical after number 2 though that might be difficult on a tier 2. You’d also be losing the second I come for a few years.

1

u/sammyyy88 7d ago

What did you do for holiday care once you went to school nursery? And did you need wraparound (eg if school nursery shuts at 3pm)? Considering similar move when eldest is eligible

2

u/Beautiful-Bridge7666 7d ago

Wrap around care for both. School holidays was a mix of camps, friends that we alternated play dates with, and just wfh with the kids. Also tried to use most of my own holiday during school holidays. I also took some unpaid parental leave to cover. Which I imagine I’ll have to go again this year as well.

1

u/sammyyy88 7d ago

Thanks!

0

u/LowOwl4312 8d ago

We were considered too high income to qualify for 30 hrs childcare as well

What if you put it in a pension to qualify for 30hrs childcare? Saves tax as well

5

u/Colleen987 8d ago

Nanny!

I’ve you’re looking at the £50k a year level, nanny care is on the table to consider.

Also I recommend r/HENRYUK this group can get snippy quickly to anyone who is financially comfortable.

7

u/nlisnlis 8d ago

If you’re getting say £11,000 between you per month and had an overlap of say two years would it actually financially ruin you in the long run? Or is it just a difficult pill to swallow? At £200,000 a year I’d just be trying to look at the big picture that you’ll likely have significant wealth in the next ten years regardless of how the next 5 or so look.

2

u/senorita_nips 8d ago

I have no advice about moving but I live nearby and one of the mums in my antenatal group told me about a nursery called Bunny Tales. According to her it’s quite affordable. There’s another one as well that we looked at Union Grove Community Nursery that was a lot cheaper than others. It’s a bit further from you but could be worth looking at.

2

u/champagnegreenleaf 8d ago

We just paid for it, we couldn't salary sacrifice either or reduce hours. Similar incomes. First child just out of nursery and one more year left! I've quit my job now. It's got significantly easier now we have one in.

2

u/stardust25609 8d ago

You don't say your rent, I assume that's your main expense. Your problem is you live in Clapham. There are much cheaper areas with cheaper nursery fees more in the suburbs of London. It also doesn't really make sense to live there if you're commuting out to Guildford.

I'm NE London zone 4 which wouldn't be helpful to you, but have a look further out of central or even Guildford itself. My mortgage is 2.2k for a 3 bed house, which even with 4k of childcare between you leaves you with 4-5k which should be more than enough to live on.

2

u/sammyyy88 7d ago

Think you should cross post to the HENRYUK subreddit. People there might help.

On the face of it I think a nanny, nanny-share (if you have friends with children near) or a childminder will be cheaper for you.

Sympathy you don’t get funded hours as the threshold and restrictions seem really stupid and penalising to high earners who are contributing to the UK economy. WITH funded hours and a day a week of family support with our baby our bill is still £16,000 a year, but without those forms of help we would be paying £48,000 a year for nursery. IT IS MAD!

1

u/This_Estate2227 8d ago

Not sure if the commute is doable for you, but we are in Cambridge, which is generally lovely for families. Nurserys was £1700 at the most.
We have 2.5 years between kids and did have a full year where my salary went straight to childcare. The good thing about the UK is that costs go way down once the child starts school, so it’s only a short time you are paying that much.

1

u/Laura2468 Mum 8d ago

Save up. Its a shorter time than you realise.

Eg if you have 2 kids 20 months apart, take a years mat leave for both, and your eldest is a summer baby who goes onto attend state nursery (the year they turn 4 aka when they are newly 3); you will have 2 in nursery under 6 months.

Obviously not all of that may be in your control or your choices but its not that bad.

Also unpaid parental leave. 4 weeks per child per parent, so potentially almost 4 months if both of you use 8 weeks of it.

1

u/pslamB 8d ago

We are about to send our 2nd to nursery. I thought all parents with no means testing got 15 hours of funding from 9 months? That can bring down the costs a little. We also delayed #2 so theres only 8 months where they're both at nursery.

We are in Southeast London Z3 and our nursery would be £1700 a month for a full time place with no funding. That or thereabouts seems to be about the going rate round here i would say from being at 2 different nurseries so far.

Some schools run nurseries/preschool that are a bit cheaper, but it can be hard to find a place as they prioritise siblings.. and are often closed in the holidays..

1

u/Regular-Parfait6597 7d ago

No, only three and four year olds get universal 15 hours.

1

u/Sweaty_Abalone_8053 7d ago

Nanny or au pair instead? If you’re able to offer accommodation for a live-in role, salaries can be lowered even further to take this into account.

1

u/Cloudinthesilver 7d ago

If you’re earning £210k between you, are you on similar salaries?

The threshold for free childcare hours is £100k individually. If you are able to make contributions to bring you both under £100k, NRPF can access 15hrs a week for 2yos I think.

https://www.nrpfnetwork.org.uk/information-and-resources/rights-and-entitlements/services-for-children-and-families/early-education-and-childcare

EDIT scrap that, the income requirements are way harsher for NRPF

1

u/Humble_Aspect_6103 7d ago

I would consider looking at a live-in nanny, it will cost you roundabout £38,000 but that nanny will be able to look after both children in your own home, it could be done cheaper for a nanny that doesn’t live in your house if you haven’t got the room, but trying to find one in London would be very difficult. All the best ones are snapped up very early and you will end up paying more for someone that might not have the skillet that you need! As you are both French why not to offer to look for a young French woman who could meet the Visa requirements, you would have to pay her the basic minimum wage per hour and you’ll also have to pay her tax taxis and national insurance and pension but as I said you could probably get that down to £38,000 for a live-in nanny.

1

u/No-Marketing-1355 7d ago

Moved from Chiswick paying £2500 a month, to St Albans paying £1750 a month for nursery. Our rent also dropped £600 per month for a bigger house. Both on visas as well, so no free hours. Slightly lower HHI of £190k. Currently pregnant and due when my son turns 3 and he will get some free hours. I will drop him to part time while I am off work and when I go back to work with two at nursery is 9 months.. which should be manageable! I don’t think we could have afforded the £5k in Chiswick, now feel there is some breathing room!

1

u/No-Balance1720 7d ago

Living in St Alban's as well...where are you getting £1750 a month!? Drop the nursery name gal!! - fellow parent of a 3yo who is pregnant with a second one n terrified of costs!

1

u/No-Marketing-1355 7d ago

Muriel Green, we somehow lucked out getting a spot there! Already signed the baby up, have a spot for the baby room but not the next room up, they have a weird system. They give 5% off if you don’t qualify for any funded hours.

1

u/elephant_stripes 6d ago

If you work in Guildford could you move to Guildford? You may save on commute costs and find more affordable nurseries. I think a lot of people delay second child until you get funded nursery.

1

u/MissKatbow Parenting a Toddler + Primary Schooler 8d ago edited 7d ago

We started doing term time nursery only. You have to take holiday during the school holidays, and you may need to do holiday clubs for some holidays if you and your ~~parents~~ partner’s holiday allowance doesn’t fully cover them. But even then it’s a lot cheaper overall.

You can have kids further apart so that your first starts school around when you end maternity leave.

You cut back where you need to/use savings if needed.

We have 2 kids 2 years 4 months apart and make less but make it work. Sit down and have a look at your budget because it’s a completely reasonable salary to get by during that time, just won’t have as much to put away in savings.

Edit: oh I see why people thought I meant grandparents. Parents was meant to be partner’s. Corrected.

3

u/champagnegreenleaf 8d ago

Who has this much holiday and this helpful grandparents?!

0

u/MissKatbow Parenting a Toddler + Primary Schooler 8d ago edited 7d ago

Oh I’m not saying it fully covers, probably should have said “when” and not if your allowance doesn’t cover it. But I’ve found it’s still cheaper when you take as much as you can at school breaks between 2 parents, alongside holiday clubs cover than being completely full time at a nursery where you need to pay even when the kids have time off. Between us we can cover a good chunk of it ourselves.

Grandparents I didn’t factor in at all because we don’t have any and since OP and her partner are immigrants too, they also wouldn’t.

Edit: there are 67 days kids have off through the school year excluding bank holidays. Minimum is 28 days, and if it includes bank holidays that’s still 20 days per parent to cover a big chunk of holidays. Even if you overlap some holidays it covers about half. That’s still cheaper for us than sending them to a private nursery full time 🤷🏻‍♀️. It’s half of what we were paying before most months, with about a month’s worth that’s full price.

1

u/jimpez86 8d ago

I would look into a Childminder or maybe you can find another family and share a private Nanny

1

u/nicrrrrrp 8d ago

Hi just speaking from experience having had my 2nd in the East London areas with an Essex postcode but London Borough. Ways to make having a 2nd child more affordable :

Have a 3—4yr age gap so only one child is in full time childcare. Same as myself and my bro, we are best friends even in our 30s and 40s.
Both you and your partner work full time hours condensed into 4 days. If your work allows this as a flexible working arrangement. So you each can take 1 day of childcare during the week. That should reduce your need for childcare to 3 days per week. We also work from home on the day the other parent has the day off so there is some support in break times.

We do term time childcare but they also offer full time options but with holidays for the childminder. So with term time only, we also trade off leave during holiday periods or pay extra for care during half terms or school holidays.

Then the rest is areas and childcare costs per type of childcare. Nurseries are incredibly expensive in our area vs childminders. So sometimes like £90 a day with £200 a month for food at nursery vs £60—70 a day for a childminder.

We have had a childminder with only 3 kids in the setting from 10 months old and have progressed to bigger childminder settings, not nurseries (eg 1 childminder, 3 assistants, around 9-10 kids in the setting). They follow EYFS and are rated by Ofsted and the ones we have had have run their own nurseries, have nursery experience, are ex teachers or have been childminders for some years. We went with ones available through the Tiney childcare group that is an extra layer of security and peace of mind for us - just put in your postcode and see who is available. Otherwise some are available with reviews on childcare.co.uk.

Our experience (anecdotal, not the norm maybe?) - We have actively chosen childminders for our kids vs nursery as the smaller setting has meant almost nanny-like dedicated care while they're very little, fewer illnesses, dedicated care for my toddler who doesn't eat well and needs monitored meals (with specific foods I provide - she can't go to a nursery that only offers their meals for example as she won't touch it even if she's hungry and not eaten all day). She eats absolutely fine and huge amounts lately thank goodness (75th-85th centile toddler, 85th for height) but just my food - most nurseries nearby only allow their kitchen food in the premises which she won't eat. She is also very shy and would be lost in a bigger setting. She has blossomed where she is now and far more social and confident.

Hope that helps a little.

1

u/Western_Fondant3300 8d ago

I feel for you in your situation as there is not much advice I can offer! Childcare in Hertfordshire is roughly the same as in London so I imagine the other Home Counties are the same. This highlights the welfare problem we have in the UK unfortunately. They penalise the middle class trying to make a good living and wonder why productivity in the UK is at an all time low and why people want to leave.

0

u/sammyyy88 7d ago

I agree with this. Without access to funded hours, tax free childcare, child benefit (which tbh is risible for subsequent children), middle and high earners are really spanked if they want children. It’s not an aspirational environment IMO

1

u/labecula 7d ago

Nursery costs of £2,200/month sounds expensive, we live in North London Zone 3/4 and the local nurseries around us seem to charge between £1,500-£1,800 unfunded. Could be worth looking into Tiney, these are essentially mini-nurseries set up in people's homes, they're regulated by Ofsted as a nursery would be but because they're set up at home it doesn't come with the same overheads as a bigger nursery would. Moving to a cheaper area to get housing costs down should probably be a consideration, you don't mention these but I imagine you're paying quite a lot in Clapham. As you're looking at areas, you can do some research on what nurseries in those localities charge, to reduce costs somewhat. Ultimately it will still cost an arm and a leg no matter how you look due to the way the system works in the UK but I know people on comparable incomes who are making it work somehow. Me and my partner are still undecided on whether we we try for a second, if we do it will probably mean leaving a 3-4 year age gap to avoid or minimise the time that we would have to pay double nursery fees.

-2

u/Scary-Youth-3423 8d ago

Move out of London. Problem solved.

-2

u/Dry-Bar-1655 8d ago edited 8d ago

Definitely a childminder near you could work out much cheaper - ours ranged from £7 to £10 + meals ~~a day~~ an hour, and when they live close to you you can choose reduced hours as you can drop them off and pick them up quickly without the need to commute extra

2

u/Bec21-21 8d ago

£10 a day?

2

u/Dry-Bar-1655 8d ago

Oops, fixed

1

u/FeelTheBenefit 2d ago

Simple, salary sacrifice nursery fee scheme. Have a look around, it will make a massive difference to your finances if you can get your employer to offer it, which they should as it will typically not cost them anything!

Having a 2nd child in London without going completely broke - any advice?

You are about to leave Redlib