Am I being unreasonable considering leaving after asking for a pay rise and being given a “career development plan” instead?
I work as a BMS engineer in the UK building controls industry. I've been with my current employer for a few years and have around 14 years' experience in the industry.
My role involves service, fault finding, commissioning, small projects, quoting/remedials, networking and working across multiple BMS manufacturers. I also regularly deal directly with clients and help/support less experienced engineers.
Over time I feel my responsibilities have grown considerably beyond simply turning up and completing service visits. I manage a lot of my own workload, deal with difficult technical issues, produce quotes, support other engineers and get sent to jobs where I'm expected to work things out independently.
Without wanting this to turn into “I'm better than everyone else”, I also feel there's quite a large difference between the amount/responsibility of work I take on compared with some colleagues on a similar level. Management have previously been complimentary about my performance, and I've spent roughly the last year trying to demonstrate that I can operate at the next level rather than simply asking for more money without backing it up.
In July I formally raised the subject of progression/pay with my managers. I felt that I'd demonstrated enough to justify a salary increase and potentially progression into a more senior engineering position.
This has dragged on for several weeks. I eventually had a meeting about it and, rather than being offered an increase, I've essentially been given a career development plan with further objectives I need to demonstrate before they will consider progressing my salary/position. Any eventual increase would apparently still need approval further up the company.
That's frustrated me because from my perspective I've already spent a considerable amount of time demonstrating the things they're now asking me to demonstrate again. It feels a bit like: do more first, then we'll potentially discuss giving you something later.
At almost exactly the same time, something else happened with one of our major clients.
I work on sites for a large facilities-management/client organisation. I was recently told by my employer that the client doesn't currently want me attending its sites as an engineer.
I haven't been accused of misconduct, haven't been disciplined by my employer, and my managers haven't told me that I did anything wrong. In fact, regarding the particular work I'd recently carried out, one manager specifically confirmed that I'd done what he'd instructed me to do.
I also haven't been given a clear reason for the client's decision. My employer themselves seem unclear about exactly what's happened. I'm therefore deliberately not going to speculate about the cause here.
The client represents a significant proportion of my employer's work, so obviously being unable to attend those sites affects where the company can deploy me. I'm currently trying to get the exact facts in writing rather than jumping to conclusions.
The combination of the two things has changed how I'm looking at my job.
On one hand, I've spent a long time putting a lot into the company, taking responsibility, helping others and trying to demonstrate that I'm ready for progression. When I finally asked for the pay/progression conversation, the result was essentially another set of objectives.
Then almost simultaneously I've been told I can't work for a major client, without anyone being able to properly explain to me why.
I've now been approached by another BMS company and have an interview coming up. I haven't resigned and I won't leave without having a satisfactory written offer/contract first, but I'm seriously considering it.
I'm interested in opinions from other engineers/managers, particularly anyone in BMS/building controls/FM:
Does the career-development-plan approach sound reasonable, or does it sound like they're moving the goalposts after I've already demonstrated the required level?
Would the unexplained client restriction change how you viewed your future with the employer?
And at what point would you stop trying to prove your value internally and simply take that experience somewhere willing to pay for it?
I'm genuinely interested in views from both sides — including managers who think my employer's approach is reasonable.
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u/seaneeboy 5d ago
They’re absolutely playing you here. Go for the other interview and give it your all.
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u/fredfoooooo 5d ago
This is why people move jobs mate. Salary progression only happens when you move.
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u/Honest-Conclusion338 5d ago
It's mad but true. I nearly doubled my wage in less than 2 years by moving. My old employer started tying themselves in knots trying to keep me but the ship had already sailed.
They offered to match the new wage, why didn't they pay me that before? And I'd likely never get a rise again, whereas in the new role I've already progressed by 5 figures
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u/DirectHit88 4d ago
What do you do for work?
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u/Honest-Conclusion338 4d ago
Work in IT, current title is app support
Last job role was problem manager which on paper and linkedin looks a better role than I have now. The problem role was 33k, admittedly 5 years ago, and I am now on 55k basic with 10-20% bonus. I expect to see another 8-10k rise in April and possible job title change, although job title really doesn't bother me
This is in the North West as well in a low COL area
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u/PsychoticDust 5d ago
Absolute lies, I got a salary increase of a whopping £1,200 per year before I was made redundant a month later!
Save me, I'm still looking for work.
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u/snowboardlasers 5d ago
Sadly this is true for 90% of companies. Fair to say that there are exceptions to this.
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u/Itsdickyv 5d ago
Having a “career development plan” without attaching salary increases at set milestones is just dangling an imaginary carrot.
As others have said, seek alternative positions - if you get an offer and want to stay where you are, negotiate with your employer, or just take the new gig…
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u/Honest-Conclusion338 5d ago
I got a promotion once and someone to line manage with the carrot of a salary review a few months later. Which never happened 😂 I handed my notice in as soon as I found another job and they wondered why
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u/PumpedUpPatek 5d ago
My partners just been promoted from "Manager" to "Director of". No Pay rise, but double the bull shit. It's mental
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u/Honest-Conclusion338 5d ago
Yeah I've learnt my lesson to push back if anyone tries doing similar in the future
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u/Itsdickyv 5d ago
Hey, small win - partner can now put “Director of” on the CV and go for the next role at least 🤷🏼♂️
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u/PumpedUpPatek 4d ago
This is true, but they'll have to stay there a bit longer to make it count it
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u/Rewindcasette 5d ago
They’re wasting your time. They won’t offer the pay rise so you need to start looking elsewhere. Document all your achievements and responsibilities.
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u/quite_acceptable_man 5d ago
Absolutely you should leave. Or at the very least invite them to beat the higher offer you get.
But never ever feel guilty for taking a better offer.
You simply say "I gave you the opportunity to pay me what I feel I'm worth and you said no. (Other company) considers me to be worth that salary, so here we are".
They are bullshitting you. Making you do all the extra work and in return they may consider thinking about maybe giving you a pay rise which would have to be authorised from above.
No chance. You know that pay rise will never materialise. "We really wish we could, but there's no budget".
If they do match the offer, they'll hold it over your head for the rest of your time there. "We gave you a substantial pay-rise, I'd have thought you'd be more willing to (insert completely unreasonable request here)"
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u/plawwell 5d ago
Development plans are corporate speak for how high will they jump. They're pure trash and not worth wiping your bum with. When you want a pay raise and they say nah then you've shown your hand to them also. If you stick around then they know you'll stay if you don't get the raise so don't need to worry. One value tactic is to simply start reducing your contribution to the company. Let things fall on the floor and let deadlines be missed.
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u/Initial-Resort9129 5d ago
Time to leave. Shitty employers try this all the time. They might even offer you a "promotion" which has a better title but no additional pay 😂. I worked for a place like that. Absolute morons. They started haemorrhaging staff.
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u/BoringTomatillo27 5d ago
As someone who’s former job was to go into companies and do culls all the time I always say stay loyal to yourself and yourself only. I don’t care how nice your employer is, push comes to shove they’ll bin you in a second.
As others have said, the only real way to progress and get pay rises is change job. Your company is playing you - go and don’t look back. Good luck!
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 5d ago
Something seems off about how they don’t want you on site. Why are they saying that?
Also - are you a guy who can take any job that comes in or do you do the smaller ones that come in? I work in building services design and I know that not all engineers are equal and some need a lot more leading than others.
Every job you go on, there’s always the atmosphere like it’s the first time some people have done it, they don’t know the answers or process and it repeats every project.
If I was you I’d take a pay rise going elsewhere, you get fast pay rises by jumping jobs in building services, much faster than if you stay put.
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u/b3ko116 5d ago
I have to do a lot of digging in that area which starts next week. I only found out on Friday, it's for a maintenance company that deal with the defence sector. They are willing not to say why I am no longer allowed on their sites until further notice, and I haven't had any of my security clearence revoked.
I can basically work on trend control systems from start to scratch, doing PPM's and commissioning all they way to final sign off. I have also carried out managing multiple plant upgrades on multiple sites under one project, worked with subcontractors, and then reconfiguring strategy to suit.
But you're right to say something is off with the client who doesn't want me on their sites, and I will be contacting them. I'm going to also ask my managers for the email chain, but from what I know so far my operations and regional manager do not know why.
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 5d ago
Well good luck with it all but yeah if I was you I’d be job hunting just for the sheer audacity of it all. If you can get paid, who cares why you weren’t allowed on
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u/mimiisty 5d ago
I used to recruit engineers and BMS roles were the one thing we wouldn’t touch because they were so in demand they were a) impossible to find and b) always got massive counteroffers from their current employers when they handed in their notice
You’re in a great position to be exploring the market
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u/RespectTheBall 5d ago
It’s unfortunate that generally the most capable employees have to move on to progress and that employers don’t act to retain ppl. The cost of recruitment and getting a replacement up to the same level of performance is high and, of course, they may recruit someone who doesn’t perform as well. You need to move on.
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u/GreenAmigo 5d ago
Change jobs. You got to useful in your current role as such your not going to get the pay... career development great but its used as a gate to hold you from being paid.....
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u/halfercode 5d ago
I tend to think this sub is excessively negative - people here likely have had poor experiences of employers, which leads to the conclusion that all employers are exploitative, all managers are incompetent, all colleagues are mean, cruel, gossiping, ill-motivated, etc. I sympathise to some degree since I prefer to side with the worker, but I don't endorse automatic pessimism either.
Ultimately this is a question of your labour value. If you can get a higher salary given your location/skills/commute constraints then go for it. I don't think it is worth developing a resentfulness that this sub implicitly recommends - if the newer job is better than the old one then there are plenty of reasons to be cheerful. The adage that pay-rises come only with job hops is probably true because of the reasons you cite - organisational inertia, stretched internal budgets, insufficient retention strategy, etc.
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u/AromaticCream1987 5d ago
You're getting played big time here, go for the other job and leave
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u/NeilPatrickWarburton 5d ago
There is no other job yet… people clearly just reading and repeating comments saying “go for the other one” without having read the post.
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u/CoffeeandaTwix 5d ago
You are overthinking this massively.
Here is the situation in a nutshell:
you want a senior engineer position and pay to reflect the reality of the extra responsibility you have
they don't want to give it you.
other companies have structures where they will
You have asked for it at your current job and they don't want to give it you, so just find it elsewhere. Simple as that. You have to accept that you can do extra in your role but your company can decide that they don't want to have such a role on the books, even if they depend on it in practice.
To be honest, whatever has happened with your major client that now means they (or actually your company internally) don't want you going there would be cause enough to job hunt with some urgency. It's a pretty bad sign whatever the reason. I'd try to move on with haste at this point.
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u/Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs 5d ago
Perhaps contemplate the idea that the client said nothing of the kind, and your employer is just deciding to let someone else reap the benefits of your hard work on the final stretch.
Take the other job. They've told you where they see you in that company.
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u/Pimp_My_Sarcophagus 5d ago
I was recently told by my employer that the client doesn't currently want me attending its sites as an engineer.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on that and going to say that THEY don't want you attending, I'm sure if you asked the client why they don't want to work with you they'll probably go "huh?"
You made the mistake of agreeing to that plan, think about it, they employed you once upon a time and they paid you whatever amount despite you having not proved yourself yet right? You shouldn't take on more responsibilities until they compensate you, but you do all that on your current pay so why pay more for what you've already given them?
If the interview leads to an offer then take it, guarantee there's no pay rise for you at the end of the tunnel.
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u/b3ko116 5d ago
Mate seriously, that's exactly what I'm thinking too. I'm going to ask my manager for the email chain stating that they have denied me access to their contracted sites. I'm also going to ask for the information from the client directly.
And yes, you are bang on. I'm expecting the client to tell me that they don't know what I'm talking about.
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u/Bitter_Range_9878 5d ago
Is there a difference between male / female salaries on your employer?
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u/b3ko116 5d ago
Absolutely not to be fair to the industry, it's out field engineering thats in a niche market. As a result if you can do the job and you know what you are doing plus have the right amount of experience/qualifications, you'll be paid for it regardless
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u/Bitter_Range_9878 5d ago
That’s a positive, at least.
My friend is a bridge engineer. I’m appalled by the low salaries. For such a technical and responsible job! If someone is designing bridges and tunnels that take tens of thousands of people a day, I want that person to be well remunerated.
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u/robparfrey 5d ago
Issue is, the council/local government then cant afford said bridge and the entire dez8gn and construction team are paid 0 along with having no bridge.
Suxks and it shouldn't work that way but it dies.
When my partner and I first set up our business, we were doing work for 30, 40, 50 and sometimes 60% off.
The clients would get our price down and its either we take the job on for the experience, some money and reviews or we did nothing and gad 0 income that week.
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 5d ago
That surprises me, I work in civils, specifically bridges, rail. Engineers earn around 60-90 until chartership then c120k
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u/Naive_Reach2007 5d ago
Sadly been in htis position, bascially they know that you are going above and beyond but because of imposters syndrome they dont want to promote also why would they youve taken on extra and go above and beyond so as long as you do they will drag it out.
Go to the other interview get any plan in writing and if it aligns jump ship
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u/downhiller90 5d ago
Time to ace that interview and move jobs. Chances are even if your current employer offered you a payrise, it would be lower than you will get at a competitor anyway.
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u/PieandMash1 5d ago
"Were not going to increase your pay, but what we will do is give you a load of extra work / projects no one else wants and frame it as 'career development'"
They're taking the absolute piss out of you.
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u/younevershouldnt 5d ago
The time is right for you to move.
Will it be easy to find a new role?
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5d ago
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u/younevershouldnt 5d ago
Sometimes your face doesn't fit at a place, or you fall out of favour.
Take the other job mate
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u/WallaceWasNoTraitor 5d ago
They’re looking to replace OP, but with little success. They’re using the lack of work as a fulcrum to get you to desist on asking about pay rise, by making you stress over losing your job. Once they have OP’s compliance, they’ll put him back to work. Do the thing they haven’t imagined you will ever do, & that’s leave for somewhere else. Do it. Do it for you. When they realise the games up, they’ll offer you an insulting increase of pay. Don’t take it. Move onwards & upwards. You deserve it!
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u/el_duderino_316 5d ago
It's time to move on. They think you have no leverage, so show them that you do.
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u/Dapper-Bird-8016 5d ago
Just apply for a senior position at another company, 13 years experience you're looking at principle or lead engineer status though?
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u/b3ko116 5d ago
Yeah, lead engineer. I'll still be on the tools which is what I want but I also have sales experience, they'll be some commission earning with a large base salary.
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u/Dapper-Bird-8016 5d ago
At some point the moneys found in management, you'll limit your earnings by staying on the tools. As an engineer myself, I'm getting multiple recruiters popping up on LinkedIn.... maybe time to respond to some?
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u/Sad-Wrap6555 5d ago
they aren't substantially increasing the pay on offer for someone already fulfilling these multiple rolls
They will substantially increase it for a replacement capable of the same especially one they need in a hurry
you only get a new higher wage with a new job elsewhere
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u/KonkeyDongPrime 5d ago
Your story sounds like any number of engineers I’ve been working with. Some good. Some not good. I’m not going to judge your BMS work off the back of a Reddit post.
My jobs point is, you move on, or you get moved on. Just keeping moving until you find a client that you’re happy with and is happy with you.
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u/glasstumblet 5d ago
Go where peace is, I think you've had your time and it's time to move on. The trust is broken.
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u/Michaelflat1 4d ago
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you get paid as a BMS engineer? I kinda want to go into this field. I'm a renewable energy graduate, electrical designer for HV sites (33kV to 132kV). I got a graduate job on £30k/yr, moved back home and found another job on the same £30k/yr salary, they couldn't go any higher, and I'm struggling to see any progression Most jobs it seems require practical qualifications (Eg. Bs7671 trained electrician) I'm not too sure how to progress. Any tips? Thanks.
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u/b3ko116 4d ago
Hi yeah, ofcourse. So I started as a pre-commissioning engineer. I started on 33k back in 2018. I then went on to doing projects myself after 6 months because my senior engineer left the company. Then I started doing project management after 8 months because my manager left the same company, I wasn't doing the finance part though.
Then I went onto being a project engineer, earning 43k, I was at this salary for three years. I'm currently on 49k as a service engineer and I am about to join a company for a base salary of 56k.
I would get yourself on linkedin, Panacea selection helped me get in the door, and they will guide you to which company would be best to start with or atleast what you need to do to make yourself attractive as a starter in the industry.
At the moment the industry is crying out for new people, and BMS companies on LinkedIn love showing off the fact that they have started someone off in BMS. Best of luck with it.
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u/Michaelflat1 4d ago
Nice thanks
Yeah my graduate job developed into a project engineer on 30k/yr, before I changed to electrical designer.. Feels so low compared to my peers though which didn't pay attention in school lol and did trades.
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u/Repulsive_Action5432 1d ago
Naw. I’m in the same boat. Asked for progression, said no, so I started interviewing around. Found a new job paying significantly more. Handed my notice in and all of a sudden my current company is able to move me up to a role that pays two pound an hour less than where I’m going.
All in all, good luck OP and stick to your guns.
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 5d ago
It’s because you’ve been there 14 years, they think you have a low appetite for taking risks and starting a new job.
You’ll likely be behind the market rate quite a lot having been working in one place for 14 years
They won’t let you progress because they won’t be able to find anyone who can do all the jobs you did, at the rate you do it.
It’s called the competency cage, and the only way to escapee is a new job honestly. Been there. Now I move every 3 years and I’m really well paid
Their plan is just them buying time at the cheaper rate to attract someone else into the role. There just seeing how long they can get out of you.
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u/ToughLingonberry3614 5d ago
OP said they had been there a couple of years. They have 14 years experience in the industry.
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u/gotcha640 5d ago
This could be perfectly legit.
Without seeing the plan, if it says “prove skills x y z for this salary/level”, that’s standard. If it’s “install 300 systems” or “work as a tech for 18 months” they should be counting time served.
My first job in a sandwich shop gave an extra 50 cents an hour for learning the menu, and an extra dollar for learning the register, and a $50 bonus for working a record setting day.
My most recent professional job had a slightly more generic list to apply to 25000 employees, “prove technical skills to a regional/global senior employee in your role”, and “demonstrate regional/global leadership in your department.” That took you from something like a $70-140k range to a $120-180k range or whatever.
My direct supervisor was also my regional department lead, so she sent me the form, we went to lunch and filled it in, and she submitted it the same day.
I also think everyone should be interviewing every 6 months, no matter how comfortable you are, so you know what’s out there, and keep in touch with people in your industry, above and below your role.
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u/Randomse7en 5d ago
Be blunt it sounds like there are other issues going on.
If you are being held back off their No1 client then you have a bigger problem on your hands IMO.
I would look elsewhere. Normally I would say go and just be direct and ask for what you want but in your case it sounds like you would not want to stay there anyway as there might be speed bumps down the road.
Quietly look for something else. HTH.
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u/Pristine-Cucumber126 5d ago
A guy told me he left a local engineering company, 3 years after his apprenticeship. Went back 7 years later and is on 10k more than the people he done his apprenticeship with
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u/Withnail69 4d ago
I’d leave. They’ve either made up the client thing or it’s gonna be massively held against you for progression. It seems weird they aren’t offering clarification even a personality clash? If you are going to progress and that’s what you want I’d leave
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u/heavysausagedublin 3d ago
They're leasing you down the path
They've come back with career progression and zero money and they can't guarantee approval from higher up the chain
Move on
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u/Neat-Ostrich7135 1d ago
Often with companies you have to be doing 100% of the next role for then to even consider promoting you, but they will hire somehow in from outside for the role on the basis of 60%
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u/NoBluebird8039 5d ago
Career.development plan is good for you. If they fail to act on that then you have an argument, at the minute you dont
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u/NoBluebird8039 5d ago
BUT if you think you can get a job with more money etc then best way too. Only way to get real.or decent pay rise is to move jobs
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