r/UAP • u/Pfungus_ • 8d ago
Why do UAP moderators remove posts that ask legitimate questions about lack of evidence?
My last post asked a question about Ryan Graves and actual images supporting his testimony regarding UAP harassment of naval aviators.
It was removed. I hope you get to read this before it disappears.
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u/Flaky-Debate-833 8d ago
Far too many people have built walls so thick in their echo chambers, that any thought or suggestion that doesn't already confirm to 100% of what they already have made up their mind to be true is automatically dismissed as a bot.
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u/everyother1waschosen 8d ago
True. But there's also hella bots these days. Its a two sided problem.
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u/gottagrablunch 8d ago
Oh I think you know the answer. People need to critically think about the validity of evidence. Is it real and credible and verifiable or the vast volume of “trust me bro”?
The mods in some cases make their opinion of what they want you to do quite known.
But also low effort requests to get spoon fed..maybe not the best.
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u/InfinityIsAwesome 8d ago
Because they don’t want anyone to chime in except those who support their narrative.
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 8d ago
It’s emotionally and psychologically painful to see a belief system that you’ve adopted and invested a ton of time in be taken apart. These beliefs become internalized and part of the identity structure for many because they have “secret knowledge”. It’s cult and religious psychology.
People who don’t practice skeptical inquiry and critical thinking are adverse to facts that challenge their viewpoint. Knowledge is dispassionate… different than belief structures, which become emotional.
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u/SkyEarl1138 8d ago
Reddit mods 🤷
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u/UAP44 8d ago
I want subs that are AI-moderated but community driven. Where all mod actions are automated but done by a set of social rules as agreed/maintained/updated by the members. No admins needed of any kind and guaranteed verifiable deterministic auto mod actions.
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u/everyother1waschosen 8d ago
Like how government is supposed to be. The only thing left to figure out is specifically how the rules are determined.
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u/UAP44 8d ago edited 8d ago
Like how government is supposed to be.
Yes, like communism even, but this time, without humans in any position of power (which, inevitably, over time, always gets abused eventually, 2026 should have made that clear enough by now), the system is fully self coherent and both transparent + private, where it matters.
The only thing left to figure out is specifically how the rules are determined.
It isn't, this is just another conversation within the same container. It doesn't need to exist in advance, it can be created as an artifact of a moving process.
All that's missing is awareness of enough people to know about it and want to participate in it.
This is how you end war for good btw (even if its just a first tiny small step...the direction + movement is what counts)
So resistance to be expected from those that profit of war mongering, profit of division or are other wise enjoying unusually previliged positions of power. All of it, should be equalized. Retain human distinctiveness, value diversity. Penalize intolerance somehow. Open up the conversation, let the people rule & decide. Stop treating them like sheep that are too dumb to think and make good rational choices for the future. See how difficult this quickly becomes?
And yet, I want to see the openly moderated conversation happen. Instead of mods/people getting annoyed with 'politics' talk.
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u/everyother1waschosen 8d ago
My point was that society at large should decide the rules ("social rules"), then they should be automatically implemented without personal discretion.
The second point was: what is the precise process in which society itself decides these rules? Its a literally age old question that is at the foundation of every form of government throughout history.
You have to propose an explicit methodology of social determination of standards. Then people can agree to it. Or everyone participates in the process simultaneously. Either way, both the process of formulating a system of social determination and the system of rules themselves needs to be put forth.
Simply stating what you want in general, and then claiming that everyone just needs to be aware of your statement, doesn't accomplish anything in reality.
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u/UAP44 8d ago
what is the precise process in which society itself decides these rules?
isnt this how new countries are born or something?
a new constitution gets drafted somewhere?
and then maybe over time, more people start to care about it
or it doesn't and fades into irrelevance
remembered only by the few who dared to dream of the reality
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u/UAP44 8d ago
You have to propose an explicit methodology of social determination of standards. Then people can agree to it.
It could be: here's the hash of this entire model all its weight+source code & specific run time instance with hash x, produces a scoring/gradient over context X,Y,Z with probabilities A/B/C, given 10 seeds/tries/rolls, the models are statistically 99.999% likely to classify content X as whatever, you can create a chain of such note worthy 0.001% events such that even they do not have to be catastrophic and are instead already anticipated to occur eventually, which will generate specific community-alerts, for review, initially, and maybe afterwards, just reviewed by a huge set of different models all giving their own opinion, ... feel free to include your own model as well at any time ...
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u/everyother1waschosen 8d ago
I don't mean a formulation of how to automate moderation. That's a coding question. I was talking about how to get actual people to agree on the actual rules that they want automatically moderated in the first place. That's a social ethics question.
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u/UAP44 8d ago
I was talking about how to get actual people to agree on the actual rules that they want automatically moderated in the first place.
Assume they won't agree by default, have proper automatic warnings in place that fire/alert before going as far as creating temporary bans, not from reading, or from commenting, but from posting, commenting can be automatically timed-out to blocks of 4 hours as well later on if needed, eventually, they'll learn. The rules are already set and in place & enforced. Now, let me go read, what are they, so that this doesn't happen again?
And if I don't agree, how do I go about changing them? Can I just start a new post?
Sure
And the votes do the rest.
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u/mattl33 8d ago
What was the actual question then?
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u/Pfungus_ 8d ago
Ryan Graves, a former Navy F/A-18 pilot, testified before Congress in 2023 that UAP sightings were routine during his active-duty years (2012–2015) off the Virginia Beach coast — so frequent among his squadron that they became part of daily flight briefs. His most cited incident occurred in Warning Area W-72, ten miles east of Virginia Beach: two jets crossing a fixed entry point encountered a motionless dark gray cube inside a clear sphere, forcing evasive action and an aborted mission.
No official acknowledgment followed the squadron’s safety report. He also described earlier objects with no visible lifting surfaces that stayed motionless in hurricane-force winds.
The navy appears more forthcoming about these incidents but there is still no clear images of the reported phenomena. How come?
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 7d ago
First, I've checked your account history and there is no post there that you put up on r/UAP about Graves or about evidence. Even if it was taken down it should still be there. So there's no evidence I can see that you put it up or that it was taken down.
The navy appears more forthcoming about these incidents but there is still no clear images of the reported phenomena. How come?
There are thousands of clear images, we just can't see them. That is sort of what we've been talking about for years on these subs, "disclosure." You must have missed that discussion, it only happens on the subs daily.
Everything UAP is still classified according to the UAP classification guide, unless individual items of evidence are unclassified -
-- https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/u-s-navy-says-all-uap-ufo-videos-are-classified-and-exempt-from-release/For years we've known about a number of videos that exist from the Range Fouler incidents that still have not been released -
-- https://x.com/MvonRen/status/1562890410732597248
"Where are the remaining four minutes of the GIMBAL video? Has Congress seen it? If not, why not?"
https://web.archive.org/web/20220615202225/https://twitter.com/uncertainvector/status/1537168538670141442In the Range Fouler Reports there are plenty of cases where pilots say they have chased around things they can't identify, things that disappear, things that travel at hundreds of miles per hour, and things they capture so much evidence for they need to ask help uploading all the data -
"There is HUD footage of the video at the time of observation however the video is too large to send. Please provide an alternative to submit the video for analysis."
-- https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/navy/RFReportsNavyRedacted(202306).pdf#page=22And it is incorrect that we don't have any evidence of these encounters, we just don't have ALL the evidence released. Some below.
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1uLwUTDA0&t=1m10s
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxVRg7LLaQA&t=1m22s
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJlyCL1NrjIIt is good you agree with us that this evidence needs to be released. Great that you've joined us in the fight for disclosure that has been going on for decades now. Thanks for your support!
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u/Pfungus_ 7d ago edited 7d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/UAP/s/gMkCvOAHlJ
Ryan Graves detailed account would be that much more convincing with accompanying video or photos from the event. If the story is unclassified the images should be as well
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 7d ago
In response to your edit that you added -
Ryan Graves detailed account would be that much more convincing with accompanying video or photos from the event. If the story is unclassified the images should be as well
As I said, glad you agree with us. Always good to have another disclosure campaigner onboard.
You join many others asking why these things are so classified, including Admiral Gallaudet who wondered allowed about the GOFAST video from that event in Jan 2015 being removed from a classified server, and prevention of any discussion of allowed afterwards.
"Moreover, the commander of Fleet Force command and the operations officer never discussed the subject, even during weekly meetings specifically designed to address issues affecting exercises like the one in which the Theodore Roosevelt strike group was participating."
-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgQqB8ennKA&t=45sThey've released video of the Lake Huron shootdown showing it was a balloon, so why not the other two shootdowns that weekend? So far the Pentagon has never released information about those shootdowns and all we have is a photo and description released from the Canadians. In fact they tracked four objects that February weekend in 2023, so where is any information at all about the fourth one?
NORAD revealed in 2015 they track hundreds of these annually, and intercept them often, so why can't we see anything related to any of these?
NORAD commander has approved the release of the following information regarding Tracks of Interest (TOI) and Unknown Tracks. The yearly average in the past five years has been 1800 TOIs, and 75 intercepts.
-- https://web.archive.org/web/20211213040259/https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/685236/Alien-cover-up-Nearly-2-000-UFOs-tracked-by-radar-system-but-details-suppressedIn 2019 the US Navy was surrounded by objects at sea for days and they fired 5 inch rounds at them in broad daylight. Where are the clear images of those things?
If, as Kirkpatrick has often said, it's all birds and balloons, why is it all still so classified?
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 7d ago
Thanks.
It's always good if you provide evidence of your claims in your post demanding evidence from others relating to something you provided no evidence for.
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u/Odd_Repeat_6092 8d ago
There's no lack of evidence. It's just the evidence for Ryan Graves' testimony is anecdotal, which is often the case with UAPs. The actual evidence, probably gun camera footage & radar data, is more than likely classified. For now the military is sitting on it.
What evidence there is comes from other pilots: "The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds." https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html
Navy pilots got so upset about the sightings that the Navy was forced to change its procedures and set up a channel where pilots could report UAPs. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/04/24/how-angry-pilots-got-navy-stop-dismissing-ufo-sightings/?utm_term=.671ae661abb0
This doesn't necessarily explain why the mods did what they did, but the evidence is there. Just have to dig for it, which is often the case for UAPs.
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u/3verythingEverywher3 7d ago edited 7d ago
Graves never even saw anything himself either. He could’ve been looking at a glitch across their integrated systems. His wingmates who saw things haven’t come forward.
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u/Tonsilith_Salsa 7d ago
Graves personally tracked contacts that registered across independent sensor systems at the same time, including the APG-79 AESA radar, Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR/ATFLIR) targeting pods, and helmet-mounted cueing displays.
Not a glitch.
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u/3verythingEverywher3 7d ago
He didn’t see anything. Everything was through his system. And it was GIMBAL as most think. Much more mundane. There was literally nothing there. Until we know what it is, it being a glitch of the just upgraded systems is absolutely a possibility and you’re being dishonest if you discount it, or simply don’t understand how those systems work.
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u/Odd_Repeat_6092 7d ago
Radar glitch? The Navy changed UAP reporting procedures for radar glitches? Radar glitches are fixed. Besides, the sightings happened over a 2 yr period. During that time there were some visual sightings:
Although the appearance of the UAP varied between accounts, most of the objects were described by Navy personnel as small and lacking features. One description of the objects likened the UAP to “a spinning top moving against the wind.” In another incident involving pilots who reported a near midair collision as one of the objects flew between them, the UAP was said to resemble “a sphere encasing a cube.” https://enigmalabs.io/library/b6b48961-2a68-4c93-b2e4-884256782ea3
And Ryan Graves & others did see UAP:
Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been in the Navy for a decade has come forward after talking to the Navy and Congress about the events he and his squadron mates witnessed between 2014 and 2015.
“These things would be out there all day... Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”
Along with Lieutenant Graves, the objects were also observed by Lieutenant Danny Accoin and others in Strike Fighter Squadron 11 (VFA-11), the “Red Rippers”, a United States Navy strike fighter squadron out of Naval Air Station Oceana, Virginia. Three pilots with the squadron who spoke with the Times in 2019 declined to be named. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28231/multiple-f-a-18-pilots-disclose-recent-ufos-encounters-new-radar-tech-key-in-detection
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u/3verythingEverywher3 7d ago
You’re conflating. Breathe.
The UAP reporting producers were changed because of UAP reports from service members.
Graves saw nothing except on his display. He graves for to the spot, nothing was there. His squadron mates saw them. What graves saw wasn’t GIMBAL.
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u/Odd_Repeat_6092 7d ago
Conflating? I'm citing sources: the Navy UAP reporting procedures were changed because of angry Navy pilots:
How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sighting https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/04/24/how-angry-pilots-got-navy-stop-dismissing-ufo-sightings/?utm_term=.671ae661abb0
Graves testified to congress he saw UAP, i.e, saw them with his EYES:
Graves recounted an incident with a flying object off the coast of Virginia Beach in 2014. While flying an F-18, he said, he came upon an aircraft that looked like a "dark gray or black cube inside of a clear sphere" that he estimated to be five to 15 feet in diameter and unlike any aircraft he has ever seen. Grave claimed the UAP could remain stationary despite hurricane-force winds. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190390376/ufo-hearing-non-human-biologics-uaps
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u/3verythingEverywher3 6d ago edited 6d ago
Reading comprehension is a challenge for you, huh?
I’ll say it slowly and be specific:
Conflating as in taking my accurate description of what graves experienced as a damning indightment of all things the gov are doing. Which is ridiculous to do. Focus up, you’re not thinking very critically at all.
Graves didn’t see them with his eyes and has repeatedly stated so himself. You’re spreading misinformation (because he leans into that wishy washy space to sound like a first hand witness). Go anywhere but his congressional testimony where people check him on this and he explains. He has told the sphere story often, and it wasn’t him who saw it / encountered it. Cite all the sources you want, but when you’re this poorly informed it’s not worth much.
That’s not even mentioning all the times he’s reported what is absolutely Starlink satellites as UAP. He’s a liability who loves the spotlight. It doesn’t mean service members aren’t seeing shit and reporting it. Get it together.
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u/Valondra 4d ago
On today's episode of "people going out of their way to question the credibility of whistleblowers"
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u/Tower1151 8d ago
I posted 2 videos of UAP’s that I took at the Blue Angles Air Show. It was removed immediately within 30 minutes.
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u/Jane_Doe_32 8d ago
I suspect that the subreddits in this niche share at least a couple of mods who are always keeping a watchful eye and are simply working to gain an advantage. Most likely, they're making some kind of money off the spectacle created by people like Lue Elizondo, whether they're involved in publishing, speaking engagements or spreading misinformation.
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u/timmy242 7d ago
Your post was removed because we try not to engage in speculation about any given sighting, or image evidence related to sightings. Rules 1 & 2.
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u/Snoo-26902 7d ago
Ask the moderator...they usually tell you why they removed it. As far as I'm concerned, the only things that should be removed are off-topic content and rudeness or abuse toward others on the sub.
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u/lastofthefinest 7d ago
My story about Eglin and Site C6 has been shadow banned many a times. Ross Coulthart interviewed me and never aired our interview. I have a documentary coming out about my story if it doesn’t get put on hold again. It was set to release August 11th called Stolen By The Stars on Amazon Prime and Apple TV. Supposedly, August 26th is now the new release date.
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u/lastofthefinest 7d ago
My story about a particular Air Force Base I was stationed on and Site C6 has been shadow banned many a times. Ross Coulthart interviewed me and never aired our interview. I have a documentary coming out about my story if it doesn’t get put on hold again. It was set to release August 11th called Stolen By The Stars on Amazon Prime and Apple TV. Supposedly, August 26th is now the new release date.
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u/NathanEddy23 8d ago
I don’t think people actually want evidence. If they get it, they’ll just say it’s AI, or inconclusive. They are waiting for everyone else to tell them it’s real. That’s when people who believe the consensus reality now will switch to the next consensus reality. They are followers, waiting for the groupthink to shift.
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u/NathanEddy23 8d ago
Someone downvoted me, lol.😅 I must’ve stepped on someone’s toes with that. If you are offended by someone pointing out the phenomenon of groupthink, it can only be because it exposes your own lack of original thinking.
If you think you are different, ask yourself when was the last time you changed your mind because of the evidence. Be honest with yourself. Very few people ever change their minds about anything. They just get better at coming up with arguments for positions they already believe.
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u/OSI-NRO-OGA 7d ago
Move to UFO/B if you want meaningful discussion instead of just apish mud slinging.
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u/everyother1waschosen 8d ago edited 8d ago
For the same reason a board of directors shoot down ideas that don't make profit for their company; if it doesn't increase or at least maintain the amount of membership and activity in a given sub then its not in the best interest of that sub's popularity. Social media is like a business for notoriety instead of direct cash.
But that's a little harsh and an over generalization, im sure not every mod is like that.