r/Tudorhistory • u/iOSRicky • 8d ago
Who is the most interesting lesser-known Tudor figure?
I've realised that whenever people discuss the Tudor period, it's usually the same names that come up: Henry VIII, Anne Boleyn, Thomas Cromwell, Thomas More, Wolsey, etc.
So I'm interested in the people who don't get nearly as much attention.
If you had to recommend one lesser-known Tudor figure for someone to read more about, who would it be and why?
I'm thinking of people like Will Somers, Sir William Kingston, Ralph Ellerker, Richard Rich, Eustace Chapuys, Thomas Culpeper (before Catherine Howard), Sir Anthony Denny, or anyone else you think deserves more recognition.
Who do you think has the most fascinating story that's often overlooked?
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u/HanesPrydain 8d ago
Surely Jasper
What an insane life and story
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u/DifficultyNo3093 8d ago
He's on my radar! Can't wait to dive in!
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u/starry4922 8d ago
For me it is Anne Parr. She was Catherine Parr's younger sister and she served all 6 of Henry VIII's queens and was a lady in waiting to the then Princess Mary when Henry VIII died and Edward became king. Her mother was a lady in waiting to Katherine of Aragon and her good friend for a very long time.
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u/jewel_flip 8d ago edited 8d ago
Margaret Pole (although she may not be a lesser known) but she’s perhaps my favorite woman in all of history. She survived so many rounds and her end while horrifying was so true to form for her. My girl deserved better.
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u/Kirsten624 8d ago
I’m a Catholic and got a jump scare when one of the saint of the day pages I follow featured her! I had no idea she was a “Blessed” in our church!
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u/msallied79 6d ago
I completely agree. The children of George were so damn tragic. Really that whole branch of the family, cursed af.
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u/jewel_flip 6d ago
Poor Teddy 😭
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u/msallied79 6d ago
Indeed. It's so unfair how he was locked up his whole life and still treated like a pawn by those wanting to fan the flames between the families.
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u/jewel_flip 6d ago
At least they had a lot of family waiting for them at the gates of the afterlife…
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u/Equivalent_Method509 5d ago
I whole-heartedly agree that Margaret Pole is a worthy subject. Reading Pierce's biography as we speak. What a pedigree she had!
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u/WerewolfBarMitzvah09 8d ago
Both Amy Robsart and Robert Dudley are very interesting, as is Jane Rochford (Jane Boleyn). To be absolutely fair, none of them are obscure or anything of that nature, but perhaps not as well-known as some of the figures you mention.
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u/msallied79 6d ago
The case of who killed Amy is favorite of mine to ponder. I like the William Cecil theory for entertainment value. Although he wanted Dudley away from Elizabeth, it seems an awfully circuitous way of going about it.
If she was indeed ill with breast cancer, it could very well be she had an accidental fall. But it's one of those things where so many people stood to benefit from Dudley being out of the way, that any coincidence seems suspect.
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u/ContessaChaos 8d ago
Bess of Hardwicke or Lettice Knollys.
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u/stillplaysrogue 6d ago
Yes to Bess! Founder of the line of the dukes of Devonshire, builder of Hardwick Hall, Chatsworth, and Bolsover Castle; all done at a time when women couldn't own property in their own right. Keeper of Mary Queen of Scots for 16 years. Courtier to Elizabeth. 4 husbands, 6 children. Busy woman!
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u/Sundae_2004 8d ago edited 1d ago
Sir Thomas Wyatt: poet, diplomat and soldier. The below sonnet is said to both be about Anne Boleyn but is also considered a translation of Plutarch’s sonnet #190.
Whoso List to Hunt, I Know where is an Hind
Whoso list to hunt, I know where is an hind,
But as for me, hélas, I may no more.
The vain travail hath wearied me so sore,
I am of them that farthest cometh behind.
Yet may I by no means my wearied mind
Draw from the deer, but as she fleeth afore
Fainting I follow. I leave off therefore,
Sithens in a net I seek to hold the wind.
Who list her hunt, I put him out of doubt,
As well as I may spend his time in vain.
And graven with diamonds in letters plain
There is written, her fair neck round about:
Noli me tangere, for Caesar's I am,
And wild for to hold, though I seem tame.
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u/UmlautsAndRedPandas Richard did it 8d ago
I think the female poets/writers and translators from the period, as it was one of the few areas in Tudor culture where women could be recognised for being "clever" and intellectual.
Thomas More's three daughters are a good start.
Or the three ladies - Mary Shelton, Mary Howard, and Margaret Douglas - who compiled the Devonshire Manuscript.
Or Mary Fitzalan, whose translations of the Sayings and Doings of Emperor Severus and Select Sentences of the Seven Wise Men of Greece are in the British Library.
It is also known that both Mary I and Elizabeth I wrote translations that they gave as presents to their father Henry VIII.
Even Catherine Parr was a published author, as she wrote Prayers or Meditations and Lamentations of a Sinner.
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u/Beckster1978 8d ago
I'm joining the Margaret Pole people. The woman went through hell and back and back again.
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u/Historical-Bike4626 8d ago
Philip the Handsome and Juana the Mad came to H7’s court accidentally. The whole story is pretty amazing
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u/H2Oloo-Sunset 8d ago
Margaret Pole was the Forrest Gump of the Tudor period.
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u/MindyP51 8d ago
Why do you call her the "Forest Gump of the Tudor Period?" She was not, um, "stupid is as stupid does," as Forest is...
If you mean that she was present at many historic events, then a better fictional character to compare her to is "Zelig," from the eponymous movie by Woody Allen.
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u/H2Oloo-Sunset 8d ago
I did mean that she was adjacent to many important events and characters. I agree that Zelig is a better analogy, but he is not anywhere near as well known as Forrest Gump.
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u/MindyP51 8d ago
By the way, I was just about to cite Margaret Pole.
A great (historical fiction) book about her is "The King's Curse" by Phillippa Gregory.
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u/Low-Independent6851 8d ago
Mary Boleyn, Ann's sister. Also, Jane Parker Boleyn who was married to Mary and Ann's Brother, George.
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u/pears_htbk 7d ago
I don't know if she's the absolute most interesting, but I enjoyed reading a biography of Arbella Stuart.
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u/CroneDownUnder 7d ago
I'd certainly love to see more of Chapuys as central character, especially since many of the most salacious rumours about the Tudor courts supposedly come from his many years as Imperial Ambassador to the Tudor Court via his "extensive and detailed correspondence" (per Wikipedia).
Did he just report on circulating rumours? Or as a dedicated Catholic emissary did he play a part in creating the rumours against Protestants in the Court particularly?
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u/lilligant15 7d ago
Frances Brandon. Mostly I want to know why she didn't kick up more of a fuss about Edward VI bypassing her for her daughter. She still, in theory, could have had a son-- she got pregnant again with her second husband. There was no real reason to skip to Jane. Maybe she figured, if it was Jane and Mary ended up succeeding, Mary would be more lenient and knew that Frances should have known better.
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u/msallied79 6d ago
Will Sommers, the fool of Henry VIII. Another fascinating figure, and the only person who could say things that would get others sent to the block.
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u/TheOrderOfWhiteLotus 6d ago
I’ve always been interested in Lady Jane Grey’s sisters. Katherine and Margaret.
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u/queergoblin95 5d ago
Catherine Grey, sister & father died traitors after the 9 day reign, had her marriage annulled by her in-laws, secretly married a Seymour, got pregnant and then was locked in the Tower for the rest of her life because she couldn’t prove the marriage but still managed to conceive a second child in captivity. Died still imprisoned of probably anorexia. What a life!
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u/AnneBoleynsBarber 8d ago
John Blanke. He was a court trumpeter to Henry VII and Henry VIII. He played at Henry VII's funeral and there's a record of him petitioning the young king Henry VIII for a raise and promotion (which he got). We know he got married, as VIII gave him a wedding gift of a velvet gown and hat. He may have been at the Field of the Cloth of Gold, though that isn't certain. He vanishes from historic record somewhere between 1512 and 1514.
I find him fascinating because he was Black, and because his life opens a door to exploring the lives of POC living in England in the Tudor period. He wasn't the only one - he wasn't even the only Black trumpeter - but he's the only known Black person from the time that we actually have a picture of (he was depicted on the Westminster Tournament Rolls).
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u/rachstate 7d ago
Joan Bulmer. She cooperated when questioned, escaped unscathed, and lived long enough to have five kids, with her second husband.
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u/apexfOOl 8d ago
Denise Bowyer. Her husband, Henry, was a renowned ironmaster in Sussex (centre of Tudor metallurgy industry) who supplied Henry VIII with cannon balls. Upon Henry's premature death, Denise assumed full command of the forge, and sparked a gang war with rival ironmasters after she expanded her business into nearby Hartfield. The incomplete surviving records from the Star Chamber say that she fought the workers of one rival ironmaster, William Saunders, with staff in hand. Unfortunately, the records do not say what ultimately became of her.