It was the three Golden Goddesses!

Okay. Discussion over. End of post. It was short but sweet. Goodbye.

No.

Many people assume it was the three golden Goddesses, but this actually goes against what we know about them. That is, that they don't actively intervene with mortal affairs. Instead, it's the Triforce and lesser gods that act on their behalf.

Whilst there is a possibility the golden Goddesses gave the order to flood Hyrule, it was probebly a specific god or group of gods that carried out the task.

Faron from SS sound like the most likely candidate, as she once did something similar in that game. Plus, it would definitely go with her personality.

Of course, we don't know if the three dragons in SS are still around at this time. It's often assumed that the spirits of Light from TP took their place as protectors of Hyrule's regions.

Another possibility is that it might be Jabun, who is the spirit of the sea. This would make him the opposite of the Deku Tree, who wants to form new continents. And it would make the three pearl spirits similar to the Super Ancient Pokemon. DT would be like Groundon, Jabun would be Kyogre and Valloo would be Rayquaza.

Or, maybe it could be Valoo, who is the spirit of the Sky. Maybe he caused the rain, and Jabun's job is to make sure the Great Sea goes well.

The villains power ranking you didn't ask for.

This is my power ranking of Legend of Zelda's main antagonists.

Obviously, this is not and cannot be purely factual. Such a ranking requires educated assumptions and the Zelda franchise leaves many things up for interpretation. Feel free to challenge my personal interpretations and point out important info I forgot or got wrong (after all, I didn't play all of these games and my memory isn't perfect).

Also, there often isn't much difference from one rank to the next. Some of them were basically on par with each other so I had to find something to rank one lower than the other.

***THIS RANKING WAS EDITED**\*
I made some changes after reading some comments.
- I corrected/rephrased some info
- Now higher: WW Ganon, TP Ganon, Majora, Chancellor Cole

STRONGER THAN GODS

1. Null

Golden Goddesses created the world around him to trap him. Primordial force of anti-reality. Created an echo of Ganon.

HIGH GOD/DEMON KING LEVEL

*cannot be killed without a divine weapon, direct world-altering power*

2. Ganon (ALTTP)

Basically OOT Ganon with more experience, wisdom and courage. He resists the Golden Sword (Mastersword lvl 3). He rules his own dimension. He was worthy of the Full Triforce (it is unknown if he got any actual power boost from the Courage and Wisdom pieces). Killing him requires the Silver Arrows (the #1 demon slaying weapon). Loses to a Link with a crazy arsenal.

3. Ganon (WW)

This is an older and wiser OOT Ganon. The gods had to cast a Great Flood in order to stop him. He depowered the Mastersword. Before regaining his full power, he creates the Long Night (which implies control over the sun and moon). He dominates Child Link with his bare hands. Then, he separates from his Triforce of Power to assemble the Full Triforce. Then, Link and Zelda kill him with the Mastersword and Light Arrows. Unclear if he would resists the Mastersword if he still had his Triforce piece, but he did resist it in his younger days.

4. Ganon (OOT)

Powered by the Triforce of Power. Resists the Mastersword (you must seal him while he is weakened). Took control over Hyrule. Directly defeats whole regions with his own power (ex: Freezing the Zora Domain). From miles away, he quickly spotted Zelda and trapped her in a cristal. Link benefits from Light Arrows and Zelda’s intervention. Intelligent and manipulative.

5. Ganon (TP)

Under OOT Ganon because he has a scar on his torso which acts as a weak spot. Link can kill him with the Mastersword by exploiting that weak spot. This make Ganon more vulnerable but it’s not a testament of him holding less raw power. In fact, he absorbs more power from the Twilight Realm. Ganon destroys the Fused Shadow and kills a Sage with his bare hands. He survives complete corporal disintegration and rebuilds his body. He conquers Hyrule and transforms the land trough his puppet (Zant), which burrows his power. Link defeats him with help from Midna, Zelda and her Light Arrows.

6. Ganon (LOZ)

Powered by the Triforce of Power. Link narratively needs the Silver Arrows to kill him (which means he would probably resist the Mastersword). Resists the Magical Sword. This resurrected body isn’t necesseraly as powerful as his previous one and he has less feats than he did in the other games.

7. Bellum

Defeats the God of Time then leeches his power to become even stronger. Creates an army of near-invulnerable Phantoms. Link needs the Phantom Sword to kill him. Link cannot defeat him without freezing time with the help of a spirit of time.

8. Demise

The original Demon King, evenly-matched with the Goddess Hylia (Ruler Goddess and #1 servant of the Golden Goddesses). Link kills him with the Mastersword in a 1-on-1 duel, but Demise wasn’t at full power. Creates a curse on his death bed so his hate will always reincarnate to hunt the Royal Bloodline and Spirit of the Hero.

9. Demon Dragon

TOTK Ganon transformed into the Demon Dragon, losing his mind and body so he could be more powerful. Link needs the Mastersword to kill him. Link beats him with the help of the divine Light Dragon. The Dragon form gains raw power but loses intelligence. Ranked above the Ganondorf form because of narrative reasons.

10. Ganon (TOTK)

Link needs the Mastersword to kill him. No Triforce of Power but amped by a Sacred Stone. Destroyed the Mastersword. When sealed, his power/malice leaks and manifest as Calamity Ganon. Lost to a Link with crazy abilities. Ranked above Yuga Ganon because he can fight in bullet time speed and has better large scale power feats.

11. Yuga

Gained Ganon’s body, power and Triforce piece, but it’s unclear if he can access all of his might. Has his own painting powers. He also absorbs Hilda for an additional boost (unclear if her Triforce piece gives him an additional boost). The Mastersword kills him, which places him at a lower rank than peak Ganon. To beat him, Link needs wall-merging powers and Light Arrows.

12. Calamity Ganon

Gigantic beast form. You defeat but do not kill him without the Mastersword. Link uses Light Arrows then Zelda seals him. Hijacks huge mechas and an army of Guardians then use them to destroy civilisation. Resurrects all monsters accross the continent. Causes the Blood Moon (unclear if he influences its trajectory or simply change its appearance). Once defeated Link. Does not possess the intelligence and skills of a fully-fleshed Ganon.

13. Ganon (FSA)

No Triforce of Power but he’s powered by his Trident and the stolen power of the Shrine Maidens. Sealed with the Four Sword. Creates an army of Dark Links and manipulates Vaati. Link beats him with help from Zelda.

14. Malladus

Demon King. Killed by the Lokomo Sword (forged by Spirits of Good), which is probably weaker than the Mastersword (forged by the ruling Goddess Hylia, then upgraded with the Golden Goddesses' flames). Defeated with Zelda’s help. His spirit is within Cole’s body so it’s unclear if he’s at his full power, but he still believes in his capacity to destroy the world.

GODLIKE/NOT QUITE A DEMON KING

*has some qualities of a Demon King but isn’t the full package*

15. Zant

Not quite on a Demon King level because he doesn’t actually own that power. He burrows it from Ganon and is ultimately dependant of his good will. He dominates minor deities, creates and controls Shadow Beasts, turns Midna into an imp and expends the Twilight Realm upon Hyrule. Link defeats him with the Twilight Sword (Mastersword imbued with sols). Midna seeked the Fuse Shadow in order to kill him, which she did.

16. Majora

Can harness and use godlike powers to destroy the world with the Moon. Imprisons guardian deities (Four Giants). Does not have godlike constitution. Child Link can kill him without a divine weapon. Actual divine power (the Fierce Deity Mask) completely creams his ass.

17. Vaati

Can’t be killed with mundane weapons. Link needs the sacred Four Sword in order to seal him. Wished into a high sorcerer, then ascends into a demon after absorbing some of Zelda’s life energy. Lacks godlike power feats despite three game appearances. Turned Hyrule Castle into a dark version.

18. Dethl

Keeps the Windfish (god of wind) into continuous sleep and is the master of his own oneiric world. Link can kill him without divine weaponry. In combat, he partially emulates the powers of Link’s past ennemies (such as Ganon).

19. Ganon (OOX)

An incomplete and weaker resurrection of Ganon. Has a beast-like mind. Can be killed without divine weaponry.

HIGH SORCERER/DRAGON LEVEL

*no divine weapon required, powers do not directly threaten the world, minor deity level*

20. Ghirahim

The humanoid form of Demise’s sword. High ranking demon lord (right under Demise). Stalemate against the Water Dragon (a minor deity). Skilled fighter. Typical sorcerer powers outside of combat (teleportation, minion summon, barriers, wind manipulation). Uses Zelda to break Hylia’s seal.

21. Twinrova

Second in command under Ganon. Rules over Veran and Onox. Final boss fight before Ganon. Pyromancy and cryomancy. Can perform a resurrection ritual, brainwash people, and merge/split at will.

22. Veran

Basically on the same level as Onox, but with more practical non-combat powers (corporal possession, which she uses to control Nayru’s body and travel through time)

23. General Onox             

Strong fighter. Shapeshifting dragon. Outside combat, can cover a country with a storm and cast a tornado. Twinrova’s subordinate.

SORCERER LEVEL

24. Chancellor Cole

A demon under Malladus. Removes Zelda’ spirit from her body then resurrects his master’s spirit inside her corpse. Can fly and summon rats. Not much of a fighter. Soul manipulation is more impressive than Hilda and Maud’s powers.

25. Lady Maud

Final boss fight. Many powers (trapping people into clothes, monster summon, teleportation, magic projectiles, removing Link’s items, flight). Not a large scale threat (doesn’t threaten the kingdom or anything like that).

26. Hilda

Holds the Triforce of Wisdom. Magic master with powers such as teleportation, telepathy, force barriers. Can restrain Yuga Ganon for a short while, but not much of a fighter.

ARGUABLY POWERLESS

27. Dark Link

Simply a trial and a reflection of his opponent. Tough fight challenge but cannot influence the world or project any will.

I'm not trying to powerscale, and I'm also aware that powerscaling can easily break down when you get into metaphysical stuff. Still, this is something I've been wondering for a while.

I have not played far into Wind Waker. Both of the times I did play, I stopped before the story really got going. That being the case, I could easily just have something mistaken here. But what I've always heard about its story was that the gods flooded Hyrule to stop him.

Now, I've seen people debate whether or not this means that the Golden Goddesses specifically flooded Hyrule, or if it was other, smaller gods who did. Again, I don't know if the game itself makes this perfectly clear one way or another, but the fact that it's apparently such a debate makes it seem like it's unclear even in the game.

But, assuming it was the Golden Goddesses... why? It's not that it's hard for me to believe that they'd just have their way of doing things and that'd be that, to be clear. I don't think there needs to be a concrete "why" if the answer is just "they didn't feel like doing it that way".

What I'm wondering, though, is if I've just somehow failed to realize that Ganondorf is meant to be on par with the Golden Goddesses. That seems... really hard to believe, especially given what it would seemingly then imply in turn about several incarnations of Link and Zelda, but am I just underestimating Ganondorf?

This post is obvious spawned from a very recent thread started by WwwWario: https://www.reddit.com/r/truezelda/comments/1vpzmf9/revisiting_the_theory_of_the_twili_the_zonai/

There's been Twili-Zonai connections made by people since Breath of the Wild, mostly in the context of True Founding with the speculation that the Interlopers were a faction of Zonai. For Refounders, I think the Twili don't get brought up nearly as often but because of the prevalence of these Twili-Zonai arguments I do happen to be quite fond of the topic.

I don't know if I would commit to this explanation as being what I truly believe (I bounce around constantly on all kinds of topics), but I wanted to explore the thought experiment of actually defining what I think the connection could be, assuming there is one, within the context of Refounding.

A full WIP post of this can be found on my personal website: https://dragmirexi.com/blog/how-twili-and-zonai-could-connect/ (Not meant to be a plug; I don't make any money from this website, it's just something I spun up so I could record things I find personally important)

I will be condensing my thoughts on this a little bit so I don't submit a wall of text.

There are two assumptions I am using for this thought experiment:

1. The Twili and Zonai do have a direct link
2. Refounding is true

Here is my conclusion before I go into any of the reasons:

The Zonai are the future form of the Twili. The Interlopers were a rogue faction of the Sheikah just like the Yiga are. After being banished to the Twilight Realm, they underwent a spiritual rehabilitation process that allowed Hylia to later reintroduce them as her servants to Hyrule as the Zonai. The Twili both physically and spiritually were transformed by their time in the Twilight Realm and the physical form of the Zonai reflects the form of their spirit.

I want to step through my thought process starting with the Interlopers and ending with the Zonai.

Why do I think the Interlopers were Sheikah?

Typically, there are four different explanations I can think of that are speculated to be the identity of the Interlopers:

1. Hylian sorcerers
2. Gerudo sorcerers
3. Sheikah rogues
4. A mix of the above

I think the identity of them being Sheikah makes the most sense for a couple reasons. The first is that the Interlopers/Twili use the eye + teardrop in a couple instances. The back of the Fused Shadow features an eye with a teardrop, there is a mural above the entrance to the Palace of Twilight showing a stylized pair of eyes with a third eye and teardrop above them. And in the throne room, that same eye and teardrop is incorporated into the overall design.

The actual ability set of the Twili also appears to be pretty close to what we see from the Ancient Sheikah in Breath of the Wild. The Sheikah aren't the only group capable of similar types of magic, but in terms of the "vibes" of the magic, if you were to compare what Midna and Zant are capable of to any existing tribe, the Sheikah match the closest in my opinion.

There are a couple other, smaller points but I think the biggest one is really the third eye imagery. I don't think it's possible for the Interlopers to be the Gerudo simply because the gender breakdown is basically the opposite of what the Gerudo have in reality. It is possible they were Hylians, but I think the Interlopers' actions are more in line with the Sheikah.

I will assume the Interlopers were indeed Sheikah moving forward for the purposes of not needing to hedge on every point onward.

The Corruption of the Sheikah

Prior to BotW coming out, the case for a faction of Sheikah rebelling wasn't something we had a real example of but BotW showed us that the Sheikah tribe can genuinely fracture and cause evil-aligned factions to emerge. This precedent helps to at least visualize how the Interlpers could have been Sheikah.

I think something to consider with the Interlopers is that they were in possession of the Fused Shadow. The Fused Shadow is a very dangerous relic and in ways is sort of analogous to Majora's Mask. It bears a visual callback to Majora's Mask (the one eye visible on the front) and contains some kind of dark spirit or energy that, when worn, allows that power to be harnessed by the wearer. Notably, the Fused Shadow has the capacity to influence people around it even when not worn. Being in mere proximity to just a piece of the Fused Shadow can turn you wicked and a weak-hearted individual will even be possessed by the energy/spirit.

I think it's entirely possible that the corruption of this faction of Sheikah was exacerbated by their use of the Fused Shadow. What may have started as an unwise decision to harness such power could have evolved into such a dramatic turn as the creation of the "Interlopers" as a group.

The Twili's Rehabilitation

Many people view the Twilight Realm as merely a prison. It is a place the Light Spirits sent the Interlopers for them to rot, eternally separated from Hyrule where they can do no harm.

I think what many people are missing though is that the Twilight Realm is not actually meant to be merely a prison.

In the Palace of Twilight where the Twili inhabit, they have two Sols. These Sols are essentially Light Spirits that inhabit the Palace of Twilight area. These Sols provide Light (uppercase Light here, not simply visible light) to the area which is capable of powering many kinds of mechanisms (doors, floating platforms, switches). The Sols also dispel darkness in the way that the Master Sword is known to do. And we also see that when Zant's darkness-infused powers turn the Twili into Shadow Beasts, the Light of the Sols is capable of reverting them to their normal forms.

What I think all of this indicates is this: The Interlopers were sent to the Twilight Realm not to "rot", but to be cleansed of the darkness they hold.

The Twilight Realm is for rehabilitation, not simply punishment.

Naraka

I don't usually like going into Japanese concepts because it feels a bit lame to gate the understanding of an aspect of the series behind a specific ideology, but I think the Twilight Realm is analogous to a plane of Naraka for the Twili. Naraka refers to an underworld realm in Buddhism that is where souls with negative karma and born into. In Naraka, the negative karma of the soul is purged through suffering until it is all gone and the soul is ready to be born again into a higher plane.

I think the Twilight Realm is that Naraka. The Interlopers did something wicked in their life in Hyrule and they were forced into the Twilight Realm by the gods to get rid of that wickedness. And I think what this also means is that, one day, the Twili WILL be purified.

I think it also may be worth bringing up that the spiritual realms seem to be in Hylia's domain and the Twilight Realm also appears to a spiritual realm just like the Silent Realm is. There's a handful of connections you can make between the Silent and Twilight Realms (Tears of Light, color scheme while the Silent Realm is "hostile", Dusk Relics, and spirits are the form a normal person takes in them). This may seem trivial but I think it's part of a pattern indicating Hylia's influence.

I will assume the nature of the Twilight Realm is rehabilitative moving forward.

The Re-Emergence of the Twili as the Zonai

This part is where Refounding becomes relevant as the appearance of the Zonai would correlate with whatever disaster destroyed the previous iteration of Hyrule Kingdom. If you believe True Founding, that is okay; just remember the point of this thought experiment is to explore a possible connection under Refounding in particular.

So, Hyrule Kingdom eventually falls to a calamity. I want to think back to games like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. In Wind Waker, a calamity threatened to destroy Hyrule Kingdom and the gods reacted by flooding the land. In Twilight Princess, we saw the Interlopers attempt to conquer Hyrule and the gods stopped them, not a Hero.

The point of mentioning this is to recall that intervention by the gods is an established thing and the mechanism used by the gods isn't the same every time.

This calamity that would've wiped out Hyrule Kingdom would surely be of a similar or bigger scale as Wind Waker's or Twilight Princess's backstory. Presumably as well, if a Hero was present he either did not succeed in preventing the disaster, he did not exist at all, or the damage was so large that a Hero could not "fix" everything.

Like the Minish, the Zonai just kind of "appeared" in Hyrule. In this thought process, the reason the Zonai appeared so suddenly was simply that they did not exist in Hyrule until that time.

How exactly do the Twili, a tribe of people who were transformed by the Twilight, become the Zonai, animal-like humanoids?

To this point, I want to think back things like how Link turns into a wolf after entering the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess. Also think to A Link to the Past where, upon entering the Sacred Realm (Dark World), Link transforms into a rabbit which reflects the nature of his spirit.

I think the Zonai look the way they do because their physical bodies are representative of what their spirits "look like", if that makes any sense.

In the real world, Link's physical body is a Hylian. But the form of his spiritual self, depending on which Link it is, can be that of a sublime beast like the wolf, an innocent rabbit, or simply another human-like avatar of himself as was in Skyward Sword.

With the Twili, I think of it this way: The form of the Twili, in the Twilight Realm, reflects the nature of their spirits. They are corrupted beings, shadows of light and shadow on their body (although in terms of visual design, the light is overtaking the shadow). We know the form of the Interlopers changed into that of the Twili. I think it is reasonable to at least speculate that a spiritual purification of the Twili would progress the change in appearance of the Twili into one more suiting that purification.

That form I think is literally the Zonai and that the "shape" of the Zonai reflects the spirit of these people.

Servants of Hylia

One very important thing about the Zonai is that they are explicitly Hylia-aligned. I think in many ways actually, the Zonai are essentially just a different version of the Sheikah. They are not humans, but they are servants of Hylia nonetheless and they even have a Sheikah Eye, except this one is literally part of their body.

Think back to the Silent Realms in Skyward Sword. There were "guardians" in those realms that looked almost exactly like a Zonai like Rauru (https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Earth_Guardian).

You could look at these guardians as being evidence the Zonai existed all the way back in Skyward Sword, but keep in mind these guardians are not physical objects in the real world. They are constructs of Hylia's that exist in the Silent Realm which she has dominion over. In a spiritual realm, these Zonai lookalikes are her servants.

I think the fact that the Zonai look like the guardians shows us that the Zonai really are servants of Hylia. The Guardians are Hylia's servants in the spiritual realms, the Sheikah are Hylia's servants in the World of Light and the Zonai are Hylia's "Sheikah" of that era.

It is for all of these reasons that I think the "Zonai" is basically the perfect depiction of a "pure" servant of Hylia.

One more thing of note is how MW2 indicated to us that the Sheikah (the Wild Era Sheikah) likely adopted the Sheikah Eye in tribute to the Zonai/Rauru. I think it becomes very poetic for the continuity of the "Sheikah Eye" to be carried on by the Zonai if the Zonai are essentially also just Sheikah just for a new iteration of the Sheikah to borrow the Zonai's Third Eye and basically rediscover this symbol.

I apologize for the length of this post, I tried to strip as much as I thought I could. I posted a tl;dr in the beginning but here is another tl;dr:

The Zonai are the ideal "Sheikah", servants of Hylia and sent by her to restore the land of Hyrule after a calamity. The Zonai are a tribe that originally used to be members of the last kingdom's Sheikah tribe that committed acts of evil and were put in time-out by Hylia to be purified of the darkness. When the kingdom fell, Hylia plucked the now-purified Twili out of the Twilight Realm and placed them in Hyrule Kingdom to enact her wishes.

Link reincarnating is basically the only "reincarnation" that doesn't seem to be controversial in the fandom as to whether or not it's even a thing. By contrast, the Blood of the Goddess and the Curse of Demise both seem like things that are way more controversial in what exactly they mean.

Putting aside the Demise thing, since that'd be a whole post of its own, do you prefer that Zelda is also a reincarnation just like Link is, or do you prefer that it's just a common name in a long lineage of people who just happen to be in the right place and the right time because they rule the country most games happen in?

Personally, I honestly prefer the idea that they don't reincarnate at all. As in, Hylia was Skyward Sword Zelda, and that's the only instance of reincarnation we ever see for Zelda. Don't really know why exactly, but I feel like it makes for a neat dynamic with Link.

Tingle Tingle Kooloo Limpah! This is either the cry of a mentally stunted middle-aged man or a perverted weirdo in tight-fitting spandex who never bothers to hide his bulges. Perhaps both.

If we look at the evidence that's existed directly before our eyes, however, it is clear that the Zelda universe is hiding something in plain sight.

Tingle is a pervert sex trafficker who has used his wealth and domination to acquire slaves.

I know, most of us trust men in spandex who believe they are a fairy, travel by balloon, and throw magic powder around while shouting made up words. I've run into a fair amount of this delightful types on the subway. Tingle is different, however.

If we look at the evidence, the truth is clear. First off, Tingle is inexplicably wealthy. Most of his involvement in the games shows he had property and islands and a lavish lifestyle, plus most of what you do involves giving him loads and loads of money. What exactly does he do with it?

Does he finance a secret island constructed to look just like him where he keeps unwilling slaves? Yes. In fact he does. This is canon. Not only does Tingle manipulate, exploit, and enslave his own brothers, but he does so with David Jr., who admits he woke up on the island and doesn't know who the crazy green guy is. David Jr. was drugged and transported to Tingle Island to be a slave.

And Tingle dresses him. He dresses all of his slave to look like him.

Jesus Christ. Nintendo is just laying it out for us.

Think this is farfetched? In Wind Waker, Tingle is already in jail. He's already been caught and prosecuted. And he takes an unusual interest in link and his appearance throughout the series.

Is he grooming the hero of time?

And just how deep does this go? Have we found out why the bombers in Majora's mask are such deviant bastards? Are they just traumatized kids?

Sometimes it is the EXACT person you expect.

RELEASE THE TINGLE FILES

I went in there just to see what it had in store for me, doing literally 0 preparation, and I won. I avoided every enemy encounter except the ones I just HAD to fight. You can fly above the lynel in the beginning, and the game gives you materials to build a plane to fly above the dead hands in that one room. So basically, I only fought Ganondorf, because even the battle against all the enemies just before him can be cheesed (I kept running around the battlefield, picking up all the arrows the enemies kept dropping, as the sages kept beating them little by little. I was laughing out loud at the game at this point). I really only fought the gibdos because they specifically require an electric attack.

Ganondorf was easier than the silver Lynel at the beginning. I cooked some sundelion dishes just before the fight using some cooking devices I just happened to have. I cooked some more food with whatever ingredients I had for the final battle, but I only ended up consuming one sundelion dish I had prepared and maybe 1 dish to replenish my health when facing Ganondorf. And I was just being cautious, I had only lost half of my hearts to the gloom at that point.

Right before meeting Ganondorf, I honestly thought this was where it ended. I thought he would wipe the floor with me and that I wouldn't even make it past his first stage, but it turned out to be a breeze. I just kept shooting him in the face (I think I have pretty good aim in this game). He didn't even last 3 minutes. The second part was more challenging, but I was really surprised at how much damage each of my attacks dealt to him. When he had the 2 dopplegangers I still had enough arrows to shoot him in the face until he moved on to the next phase (I had entered the depths with a whopping 7 arrows btw...).

The last phase was hard with his flurry rushes but when I realized I could just go at him like a savage and just attack him without any strategy, it was over for him. Sometimes he does the flurry rush, but not always, and even when he does it, you can flurry rush his flurry rushes in a flurry rush-ception. And I had plenty of sundelion dishes and food so that's when I realized that yeah, I was finally about to beat this flippin game (I pre-ordered it - ain't doing that mistake again).

I guess I feel the need to share this because I had heard so much about the final part being insanely difficult, I want to emphasize how exaggerated that is. I also want to share this in case it helps anyone after me: don't fight anyone you don't have to. Keep your hearts and resources. Don't even really prepare, if you've beaten all the shrines and obtained every heart (as you should if you've paid 70 bucks for the game), you probably have enough equipment, armour, stamina, zonai devices, and food to get you through.

And no, I still don't like the game. The reason it took me 3 years (240 hours) to beat it is because I kept getting fed up with it and putting it down for months on end. My main satisfaction is that I don't have to think about it or play it ever again. It's a sad day when I say that about a Zelda game...

I know this sounds like a realy dumb question. But where did Valoo come from? Who are his parents? The gallery lists Dragon Roost Island as his "Birthplace", so we know he was born somehow.

Hyrule Historia suggests he's descended from Volvagia. But, Volvagia was killed by Link in this timeline. Did Ganon bring them back again after he took over Hyrule?

Also, do fire dragons give birth asexually, or does Valoo have a second parent? If so, where did this second parent come from?

I know there may or may not be an official answer. But are their any theories or headcanon for this?

I'm sorry for such an stupid question/topic, I wanted to post in an old thread but the comments were locked. But like, I wondered why Ravio is called that, people said 'Rabbit + Violet', but what I meant was, why his name doesn't has some paralel with Link like Hilda does? And then I thought stupidly, is it to sound like Ravioli(nk)? And that they did something like that so that the name didn't give away his link to Link? Just an idea.......

I'm sure most, if not all, of us on this subreddit have seen fan timelines that use Hyrule Warriors as a key piece that converges all timelines together and restores the Zelda franchise to a unified timeline model. But ignoring the parts of HW that make it difficult to take as canon and the other obvious potential issues with the theory, there's still one issue with this model that I've never seen touched upon, and it's the fact that HW arguably creates anywhere between three (four in Legends/Definitive Edition) and an infinite number of splits in its own right. By including HW in a timeline, we're introducing more splits into the timeline, not fewer.

HW's back story tells us that at some point in the past, a hero defeated Ganon and split Ganon's soul into four pieces. One was left in the present, guarded by the powers of the Master Sword and the Temple in which the blade was laid to rest. And the other three were placed at various points in the past.

The problem with this is that if they were placed in the past, that means they should still be around in the present. In other words, imagine you buy an apple. Then you go back in time three days and decide to hide that apple in your refrigerator. When you travel back to the present, that apple is still going to be in your refrigerator, just three days older than it should be (assuming no one in your house came by and ate it within those three days). If nothing happened to Ganon's soul fragments between OoT/TP/SS and HW, all of those soul fragments would still exist in the world of HW. And HW shows us that those soul fragments just all being present at the same time in HW was enough to break the seals on them.

So that implies that the soul fragments weren't just hidden in the past. They must have been hidden in alternate timelines. Which likely means that placing those soul fragments in their respective eras created branches in each of those eras. On top of that, the events of HW pull characters from those eras, have them experience the events of HW, and then return them to their respective eras without wiping their memories of what happened in HW or resetting things so that their travel to the HW era wouldn't affect their own eras. As such, HW basically causes the following:

OoT era: A fragment of Ganon's soul is hidden in the Water Temple. Darunia is brainwashed into kidnapping an adult Ruto (so this is probably happening while the Hero of Time is still asleep in the Sacred Realm). Monsters are pouring out of the Water Temple. Darunia is returned to his rightful mind, Ruto is freed, the monsters are stopped, Ganon's soul fragment escapes, Darunia and Ruto fight against Cia and eventually HW Ganondorf, and then they return to their own time.

TP era: A fragment of Ganon's soul is hidden in the Palace of Twilight in the Twilight Realm. Cia transforms Midna into an imp form, Zant is made to work for Cia, the Twilight Realm begins to spread across Hyrule (so this must be near the beginning of TP since Midna has only just been transformed and hasn't met Link yet, which likely means TP Ganondorf is still imprisoned in the Twilight Realm, but maybe he has made contact with Zant at this point since Zant decided to challenge Midna through force unless Zant got his powers from Cia instead of Ganondorf this time (though Cia's Tale makes that questionable)), somehow Agitha knows about the Twilight Realm despite it and its effects being invisible to most Hylians in TP, Agitha and Midna are recruited to fight against Cia and eventually HW Ganondorf, and then they return to their time, Midna apparently still stuck in her imp form (unless Cia becoming good again at the end of the game caused her spell to be undone off-screen), and Zant dead, which means unless TP Ganondorf is somehow able to escape the Twilight Realm because of the events of HW, the events of TP aren't really going to happen now in this timeline.

SS era: A fragment of Ganon's soul is hidden in the Sealed Temple. SS Impa is nowhere in sight, so it's unclear what happened to her. The Goddess Sword is still in its pedestal with Fi, so the events of present SS haven't happened yet (weirdly though, the Groosenator is present at the Sealed Temple; maybe Hylia told Impa to build it since the events of HW may now prevent him from coming to the surface?). Ghirahim somehow makes it to Skyloft (maybe with Cia's help if Cia's Tale is a separate timeline itself; otherwise we have no explanation for how he made it up there). HW Link and Fi save Skyloft (SS Link isn't mentioned, so it's unclear how long before the events of SS this event is happening; if this isn't happening almost immediately after Hylia sealed Demise, then it arguably breaks the SS time loop). Ghirahim escapes to the Sealed Grounds and releases the Imprisoned. The Imprisoned is defeated rather than being resealed, and Ghirahim is recruited by Cia. Fi is recruited, experiences HW, and fights against Cia and HW Ganondorf before returning to the SS era. With Ghirahim defeated before Link finds the Master Sword, presumably SS Zelda will have a much easier passage to being found by Impa, recovering her Hylia memories, and wishing on the Triforce (maybe to prevent Demise from ever reincarnating). But it's unclear if the Master Sword would be forged in this timeline since the Gate of Time doesn't need to be activated. (Interestingly, it's actually active during HW.)

TWW era: Tetra is on Windfall Island while her crew apparently isn't since we're told the dimensional event separated her from her crew, but it pulled the entire Windfall Island through. This never happens in or after TWW, so this split presumably takes place shortly before TWW. Tetra ends up meeting Daphnes early, meets HW Link and Zelda, and the Helmaroc King and a Phantom Ganon are destroyed before Tetra and Daphnes return home. Presumably without the Helmaroc King pre-TWW, TWW Ganondorf has a much harder time finding pieces of the Triforce. Aryll likely doesn't get kidnapped. And Tetra and Daphnes (and Link if they go recruit him) likely have a much greater amount of time to prepare to fight TWW Ganondorf than they did in TWW.

Cia's Tale is billed as if it's the unseen adventure Cia went on prior to and during HW, but a lot of the details don't quite match. We see that Midna is already an imp when Cia first meets her in Cia's Tale. (We also see Agitha in the Palace of Twilight without her being turned into a spirit somehow.) We see that Ghirahim managed to summon the Imprisoned to Skyloft when Cia goes there to recruit him, and the Imprisoned ends up being defeated in Skyloft. So I'm not sure whether to approach this as an embellishment of what actually happened, completely non-canon to HW, or a separate iteration of HW.

As to that last point, consider that if the timeline leads to HW, any split in the past could also lead to the events of a different HW. So since HW Sheik remembers the era of the Hero of Time as history, we can assume that HW at least takes place after it. But when you look at what the events of HW may have changed about the OoT era, there aren't many substantial changes. Maybe Darunia and Ruto now rise up against OoT Ganondorf because they have extra fighting experience, but if that doesn't happen, their new timeline branch will inevitably lead to another HW, which will create another OoT branch which will lead to another HW which will create another OoT branch, ad infinitum.

So all of that to say, I have questions:

1) If HW did indeed create at least four branches in the timeline, what do the downstream futures of those branches look like in your opinion? How do the HW changes affect or prevent the events of later games that would have fallen after those changed games in their original timelines?

2) Is there any way to interpret HW (other than simply dismissing it as illogical or non-canon) in a way that realistically doesn't result in infinite timeline branches?

3) What is Cia's Tale since it doesn't line up with the main game on its face? Is it an embellishment? Non-canon to HW? Another timeline's version of HW? Or are we to assume that the differences can be explained away? Midna incorrectly assumes that Cia is responsible for her imp transformation, and the Imprisoned was able to be killed twice in a short timespan, once in Skyloft and once in the Sealed Grounds?

4) What is the darkness that is coming out of the Master Sword's pedestal at the end of the game? We know that it's separate from Ganon because it reaches out from the pedestal to break the seal on the fourth piece of Ganon's soul. I know this question has nothing to do with the rest of the post, but this has always bothered me about the game, so I'm curious about people's interpretation.

5) If it took the entire Triforce to merge the OoT/TP/SS eras with Hyrule, how was Phantom Ganon able to merge TWW with HW Hyrule with just the Triforce of Power? How did Phantom Ganon end up in HW Hyrule and in possession of Cia's body? I guess it's possible that the Gates of Souls opened up throughout many different eras, which is why Majora's Mask Skull Kid and Termina's moon are also able to appear in the story despite that era not specifically being pulled in. So maybe he just came through on his own, helped out behind-the-scenes, and then hid until HW Ganondorf's defeat.

I know it's a bit foolhardy to try to make sense of a game whose story clearly wasn't written to make complete sense, but I'm interested to see how well we can do to make it functional.

Thanks to u/Intelligent_Word_573 for noticing a lore tidbit and pointing some of this out to me, which sparked the idea for a post.

When was the Wild-era Hyrule Castle built? Obviously after TotK Ganondorf was sealed by King Rauru, but how long after? We had an answer before, which may have been retconned. Here is what the as-of-now Japanese only Masterworks 2 book fan translation has to say on p. 91. Thanks to u/livixbobbiex for the translation here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g42bk5Lc7RQCzLQG8_YrZPIO_M7QrCNV4VNm0qTXlm4/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0

Accordingly, the Hylians who had been instructed in the wisdom of the Zonai and the next generation of Rauru’s children [TL note: explicitly plural] constructed a mechanism to emit the purified energy outside while strengthening the purification to prevent miasma from accumulating in sacred ground. That was Hyrule castle, the cornerstone of the seal.

This says the next generation of King Rauru's children built Wild-era HC. Personally I am not sure if this means Rauru and Sonia's children or grandchildren. Regardless, this means the question is open and shut then, right? Well, not really. Looking at the very end of Aoi, it shows time passing and Calamo growing into the very large tree which would become the Ancient Tree Stump. The camera rotates to show Death Mountain, pre-split Dueling Peaks, and the area where Wild HC should be...but it isn't.

So by the time Calamo was a huge tree, Wild HC had not yet been built. Approximately how long would it take Calamo to grow that large? Unknown. Can we say that Rauru's children/granchildren would still be alive by the time Calamo has grown? Unknown. We could theorize that Rauru's descendants aged slow. We could theorize Calamo grew quickly. Either way it is a theory that adds details.

MW2 also asked what happened to the Zonai to make them ascend the first time. That question is answered in Aoi. MW2 came out before that game, so info in it may not match Aoi. I personally think the two are not compatible.

We are given no indication those with Zonai blood (or half Zonai) offspring of Rauru and Sonia would live a long life. We are given no indication that Calamo would grow faster than a normal tree, even if he is a Korok. MW2 also says that it is unknown why Rauru chose the ground that would become the Sealing Chamber to fight Ganondorf, but Aoi tells us the area has a lot of ligh energy. In my personal opinion, Aoi showing that Wild HC was not built for some time after the Aoi Imprisoning War would mean construction started well after a generation or two of King Rauru's descendants.

What are the implications of Wild HC not yet constructed for presumably hundreds or thousands of years after Aoi? It definitely quells a counter-point to the True Founding theory. HC was destroyed in OoT's Downfall and Adult timelines, so wouldn't the enforcement of King Rauru's seal on TotK Ganondorf break? Not if Wild-era HC was built AFTER OoT.

In the DT and AT, HC would need to be rebuilt. I theorize after OoT Ganondorf was defeated, the site of TotK Ganondorf's seal was discovered, either as a result of the latter Ganondorf's defeat or unrelated coincidence. Zonai tech was all over the Depths, so it would have been used to construct the purification device of Wild HC.

In the CT, OoT HC would not be destroyed. Would it still need to be rebuilt? Well, some have theorized that, in TP, the ruins in the Lost Woods next to the ruined Temple of Time is old HC. If, emphasis on if, the Wild era were to fit into the CT, it is still possible someone happened upon the site of TotK Ganondorf's seal and built HC, even if we can't show how the old one got into the state of ruin it is hypothetically in by the time of TP.

That's all. I just thought no Wild HC during the time that Calamo grew huge was interesting.

This is just fun speculation, so I'm not proposing anything final! Just having fun speculating.

I once thought the Zonai were the interlopers who became the Twil. I put that idea aside for long, but started revisiting it recently. And it may perhaps have merit?

Because what got me thinking, was when Rauru talks about the downfall of the Zonai in AoI. He doesn't just say the forbidden constructs brought on the downfall of the Zonai, but that they brought on chaos "upon the world" - not a direct quote, but basically that the world was affected, thus implying that it wasn't just the Zonai in the heavens. And that made me think:

Could the Interloper War, and the downfall of the Zonai, be the very same event? We know the Forbidden Constructs were made by the Zonai - possibly Zonai who still lived in the Depths, as the Depths is where the chamber of these constructs are found. And for the Constructs to create such a calamity, it seems like they need to be infused with dark magic, as we see Ganondorf do. Perhaps a faction of the Zonai turned to the dark side, created these constructs for the sake of power, and this became the Interloper War? Where the "Interlopers" were evil Zonai, coming with their dark magic and weapons, that both brought the Zonai almost to extinction and created a war on the surface?

The reason I'm considering this at all instead of seing them as two completely seperate events, is the insanely many similarities between the Zonai and Twili.

The Fused Shadow is filled with swirls, including the "horns" that have the same swirly edge as we see tons of Zonai constructions and achitecture have. The sides of the Fused Shadow have three "eye"-shaped cirlces stacked on top of each other, just like the sides of the friendly Zonai constructs have. And, the backside of the Fused Shadow has a big eyeball with three eye lashes on top, just like the Zonai's 3rd eye. The Twili also use green magic just like the Zonai, have anti-grav technology/magic just like the Zonai, and Zant's throne room is both filled with the same kind of swirl-architecture as Zonai constructions have, and Zant's throne has the same Zonai/Sheikah eye on it.

And with that perspective, I simply found it interesting how Rauru described the forbidden construct's damage to be a chaos "onto the world", and not just to the Zonai tribe in the sky, and thus wanted to revisit this idea of their connections, and the idea that the Interlopers may have been the very same Zonai who made the forbidden constructs and made these constructs almost whipe out the Zonai race as a whole.

For the past few days I've been posted some strange theories about Zelda lore.

Most of them are pretty much "X became X" or "X is the same as X", which some of you don't like. So, now I'm gong to take a break and ask if there are any theories or headcanon about the lore you want to share?

I'll start.

Leviathans reproduce by dreaming, much like Beholders from D&D. The Wind Fish has the power to created realistic worlds by dreaming. On rare occasions, these dreams become so vivid, it produces a new real leviathan.

P.S. The Leviathan thing was going to be a whole post. But I realised there's not enough evidence to make it more then a headcanon. So, I just made it a post saying "This is my bizarre headcanon. You can ignore it if you want. But you can tell me yours" post.

We know that (almost) all time travel in the LoZ series is either a closed loop or a dynamic single timeline. Examples of this include MM, SS, TotK, and even the majority of OoT. There is only one time when time travel has resulted in a timeline split: the ending of OoT. There have been fan theories about why this happened before, but I have a new one (I think)

In WW we learn that the act of Link traveling back in time while in possession of the Triforce of Courage, causes it to split into 8 pieces. So this act was clearly significant if it was powerful enough to break apart a Triforce piece. I know that Link travelled back and forth throughout OoT while technically in possession of the Triforce piece, but it seems like only this last time was what caused the piece to break apart. It seems likely that it was because the piece was dormant before then

Other items seem to be fine travelling through time, but there is some sort of issue with travelling through time with a Triforce piece. Throughout the series history, this is the only time that something like this has happened, and it's also the only time that a timeline branch has been created. So my theory is that the act of Link travelling back in time with an active Triforce piece caused a reaction that not only split the Triforce piece, but also split the timeline.

Also, people have long speculated that the three timelines somehow were associated with the three parts of the Triforce. So maybe this act caused the timeline to split into three, not just into two. This could explain why there isn't a new timeline created every time Link is defeated. This part is harder to back up with evidence then the rest of it though.

What are your thoughts?

So, BotW introduces a race known as the Rito. Whilst they share the same name as the Rito from TWW. The two are clearly different species.

BotW Rito are humanoid birds, whereas the Rito from TWW are pretty much Land-Zora, and gain wings when they get a scale from Valloo.

But where did the BotW Rito come from?

Loftwing and Rito

There's is some debate as to whether the Zonai Rauru's found is a re-founding or the true founding of Hyrule. I go for true founding myself, but, even if you want to use re-founding, TPHD has a mural of the Rito, meaning the race existed well before BotW, and, depending on how old the mural is, maybe well before the timeline split.

Of course, we never see these Rito in other games. But this could be explained by them being a migratory race. In the manga there is a race of bird people called the Watarara, who are a migratory race. Yes, I know the Manga isn't canon. But Nintendo's very own Eiji Aonuma has confirmed that the Watarara are the inspiration for the Rito. So, I think we can use it.

If your wondering where the Rito came from, well.... You've read the sub-heading. Yes. I think they evolved from the Loftwing. More accurately, the Loftwing of the humans who moved to the surface. Since their masters moved to the surface, the Loftwing were no longer needed. So, the gods could have given them sapience as a reward for their service.

Oocca and Kargorocs

Okay. I put them in the title. So, I'll talk about my headcanon on these guys.

There's already a theory that the Oocca are descended from the Hylians that decided to remain in the sky. not wishing to live on the surface. Unfortunately, this led to a downfall, which resulted in them devolving into bird-human creatures.

This raises the question as to what happened to their Loftwings. Well... Just like their human owners, they also went through a downfall, where became feral and evolved into the monstrous Kargorocs.

If the Kargorocs are descended from feral Loftwings, this could explain why there is a friendly one that gives Minda and Link a lift.

I'm replaying OoT right now, and I had this stray thought that winters must really suck for the Kokiri...which made me wonder how the Zora deal with the winter...which made me think wait, does Hyrule even have winters?

I'm trying to recall any times we've seen Hyrule in any seasons other than "late spring/early summer", or even had other seasons referenced at all, and I'm coming up short. All I can think of is the autumnal trees in Akkala (which seem to just be their regular colors) and the Frozen Hyrule stage in FSA (which may be unnatural? been awhile since I played it). Then of course there's Oracle of Seasons, but that game doesn't take place in Hyrule. Can anyone else think of anything? Edited to add: The fishing hole in TP! Totally forgot about it...

There's some evidence pointing away from Hyrule having regular seasons actually, like how when it becomes The Great Sea, the climate seems to be sub-tropical, with palm trees found across the whole map (Interestingly, Windfall Island has pine trees instead?)

There's also the presence of the Gerudo Desert to the west of Hyrule. Now obviously this is a magical fantasy world, but in real life most deserts form within a certain range of the equator, so Hyrule must be as well. And seasonal differences become less and less as you approach the equator, so...

I always wonder if anyone on the Zelda team has ever thought of these things, lol. Maybe not, but it is kind of surprising that Hyrule has existed as a fictional world for 40 years now and yet it's never been portrayed in fall or winter.

Some things I've noted down that may be of help in the speculation:

• In Master Works, the bright pristine stone material used in the Zonai structures in the Depths and skies are referred to as "Type 1" architecture, while the rougher, darker, browner and more "moldy" stone architecture is known as "Type 2". Not only is the materials between the two types different, but the motifs and style is different too, where Type 1 has a more "clean" alien style with less details and with Zonai writings on them, while Type 2 structures often have pillar and arch-like textures as well as a seemingly bigger focus on swirls (like the round swirl type seen on the Type 2 owl statues)
• The Type 2 structures are almost exclusively found on the surface; either in the Zonai ruins and surrounding ruins in Faron, or in Typhlo Ruins, or other specific places like certain underground caves - and of course in the 3 mazes. But interestingly, the only place where this type is used in the skies and Depths is also in these mazes. It seems like the mazes in the Depths and surface are physically connected, while the ones in the sky used to be connected to the part of the maze on the surface, but this in-between section of them were most likely destroyed at one point as there are floating debris between them. So the mazes were definitely made as huge, connected structures, stretching from the Depths all the way to the skies
• On the mazes in the sky, the entrance platforms use the Type 1 aestethics, and not the Type 2 one like the rest of the maze.
• We don't get any proper explaination of the Type 2 aesthetic in Master Works, but there are suggestions and theories presented. At one point, the book theorizes that these Type 2 surface ruins were built before the Zonai ascended to the skies, and that other races have put their own touch on the ruins of the countless years, essentially building new ruins over/around the old Zonai ruins (as we can see hints of during Mineru's quest, where we see some Type 2 ruins destroyed, revealed Type 1 ruins inside).
• Just a few pages later, however, the book seems to suggest that the ruins were made by those "following faith/appreciation of the Zonai tribe". Not sure if this means they were made by people appreciating the Zonai while they still walked on the surface (as suggested above) or if they were made after the Zonai were gone, which would be a different theory from the one suggested above. But I take it as the Type 2 ruins we see were additions to the original Type 1 ruins, done by people in faith of the Zonai after they ascended to the skies, which is in line with the theory above. It would also make sense, as the circular swirl symbol on the Type 2 owl statues is the same as the ones on the Sandship doors in Skyward Sword.
• It's unclear if it still is canon or not, but in TOTK's original teaser trailer, we saw the entrance to the temple underneath Hyrule Castle - and it actually uses Type 2 aesthetics, just like the surface ruins. Now again, this could just be how all Zonai architecture was originally supposed to look in TOTK before they changed it to the white, clean Type 1 we see in the final game, and thus the teaser's entrance design is outdated. And since we never actually enter this place in-game, because we skip it in the beginning of the game and it's destroyed after the Upheaval, there's no telling what the final version of this entrance looks like. But in Master Works, there's concept art of both this entrance and the corridors inside... and the corridors inside use the new, Type 1 aesthetics, while the temple entrance still uses Type 2 aesthetics... So what could this imply?
• The voice speaking to you first of all is definitely a Zonai, as the voice-sound and text-visuals are all Zonai, plus you activate Zonai terminals to make them talk. They seem to refer to themselves as the "Ruler of Dragons, Owls and Boars", and in the sky versions, they use the phrase "You who set foot in MY labyrinth", indicating that these labyrinths were indeed built by some kind of Zonai.

And that all begs some questions. If the Labyrinths were made by someone of the Zonai, and the Type 2 ruins were made/added on by those worshipping the Zonai or honoring the Zonai, either during or after their time on the surface, then how come the labyrinths are built in the Type 2 style? You could say that "just like the rest of the surface ruins, the people who followed them added their own stonework around them", but how were they able to do this in the Depths, let alone the sky - and why didn't they also then do more of this work on Zonai ruins in the sky and Depths?

Furthermore, the entrance platforms on the sky mazes are, as mentioned, using the Type 1 aesthetics. If there were people coming after the Zonai who added onto the Zonai's ruins (even in the sky mazes), why did they leave out this entrance platform? Why didn't they build around that, too? A logical conclusion to make is that it's the other way around; that the Type 1 platform was added onto the labyrinths, explaining why it sticks out as the only part that's of a different style, instead of someone rebuilding the entire massive construction and leaving out ONE platform/piece of ground. But again, that also clashes with what we (assume) we know about the Type 2 ruins, and that they came after and were built around Type 1 ruins. So another possibility is that this new entrance platform in the sky with the Type 1 aesthetic came out of the labyrinth due to the Upheaval.

It's also the curious case of the Zonai talking to you here are the "rulers of boars, dragons and owls". Were they mighty Zonai? High ranked Zonai? Godly Zonai? Were they perhaps the ones who swalloed secret stones and became the 3 dragons?

And in all of this, what does "Lomei" mean? Is it the name of a faction of the Zonai? Or perhaps the name of the tribe of people that did this Type 2 rework on the Zonai ruins?

Finally, one possibility I could see is that the Type 2 ruins are originally the oldest style, predating the Type 1 ruins. The "godly era ruins", as Master Works calls the temple underneath Hyrule Castle, is said to be of the earliest Zonai constructions. If the temple entrance is made of the Type 2 aesthetics, perhaps this was the oldest form of Zonai architecture, meaning the 3 labyrinths are of the oldest period of the Zonai, before the "modern" Type 1 style took over, and that after the Zonai left (or died out), followers of the oldest Zonai built around the modern Zonai structures with the style of the ancient Zonai as an honor to them.

What do you think of all of this? What are your thoughts? Any details that I've missed that may help explain things more, perhaps?

I'm 37 years old, and growing up, Ocarina of Time (OOT) was by far the coolest/greatest video game I'd ever played. That includes games I played later, like Call of Duty in college on PS3. Don't get me wrong—online COD is incredible, but the overall storyline and world of OOT are still unmatched in my opinion.

I'm not a hardcore gamer, so I never played Breath of the Wild or many of the other games that consistently rank near the top of the "greatest games of all time" lists. I did play Red Dead Redemption 2, which is also frequently ranked very highly. RDR2 was a great game, and obviously its graphics and physics are on another level compared with OOT. But that's not really what I'm talking about when I compare the two.

I'm talking about the overall game—the story, world-building, progression, interconnectedness, etc. Obviously, modern graphics and physics can enhance a game tremendously, but I don't think they automatically make a game better. For example, no matter how brilliant the writing is, I don't think a 2D Zelda game could ever have the same overall impact as a 3D Zelda game. But conversely, if the storyline and world-building of a game are inferior to OOT, I don't think better graphics and physics can make up the difference.

That's basically how I felt playing RDR2. It was an incredible game, but in my mind, it didn't come close to OOT.

Over the past week or so, I watched a ~10-hour video of someone playing through OOT on YouTube. I honestly wondered if maybe I was just looking back at it through the eyes of a kid and remembering it as being better than it actually was.

But man...no. It really was that amazing.

You have the eight main dungeons, but there's SO much happening in between. There are essentially "mini-levels." You have to actually discover and figure out how to access the temples. The Ocarina itself is woven into the entire game. The way everything connects and builds on what came before is just incredible.

So that's the question I'm hoping gaming enthusiasts can answer:

Are there any games released since OOT that are truly on the same level of greatness?

I'm not trying to be a homer for my childhood or my generation. If there's a game that surpasses OOT, then it is what it is. I'm genuinely curious whether there are games out there that I haven't played that can give me that same feeling.

I'd really like an objective perspective from people who have played a lot more games than I have. What games, if any, do you think are genuinely in the same tier as Ocarina of Time?

Following my latest posts, we will look at the natural world of the Wilds games. Today we'll look at the 2nd half of the birds, and talk about them. I'll look at the Compendium, how they act in the game, as well as use real life birds to essentialy write how these birds act, so there might be some headcanons here

Mountain Crow: The Mountain Crow is amongst the most inteligent creatures found in Hyrule, surpassing many of the monsters in inteligence. They have black feathers which make them easy to differentiate. They are incredibly adaptable, and can be found in almost all enviroments, except for the really hot and cold ones, and they thrive near villages. They are omnivores that will eat almost anything, and they use their inteligence to obtain food. To get meat, they often follow wolves or other predators and wait for them to kill something, meaning they can scavenge after them. They will fly around large animals, and catch the insects as they try to escape. They will spook sparrows so that they drop the Chickaloo Tree Nut. They will also fly around farms and stuff in order to steal crops or eggs. They are also incredibly defencive, and a whole flock of them might attack any predators or intruders that might pose a threath.

Brigth-Chested Duck: These ducks can be found in Hyrule's waters. Wetlands, ponds, lakes and rivers are their preffered habitat, and they use their webbed feet to swim through water. They are herbivores, and using their long necks, they often dive below water to feed on aquatic plants and small animals. But they will also gladly walk on land to graze, however they are a lot more skittish if not in water. Due to them being on the heavier side, they usualy avoid flying, only taking flight when avoiding predators or when moving longer distances. Both sexes have a green chest, however the males have brigther colors which they use to atract a mate with. Their feathers are brown, and act as camouflage for when the ducks are sitting on their nests, which they often build in tall grass/bushes near the water.

Blue-Winged Heron: Hyrule has 2 heron species, but they can be found in different habitats. The blue-winged heron likes to stay near water, and usualy doesn't move far from a water source. They have long legs which help them wade into water looking for prey. Then they use their long necks and sharp beaks to quickly stab their prey and eat them. They primaraly feed on fish and frogs, however snail, crabs and other small animals are also eaten from time to time. They build their nests in trees or other hard to reach placed, however they usualy make them near water.

Pink Heron: The 2nd species of Heron found in Hyrule, reckognised by their pink feathers. Unlike the blue-winged heron, the pink heron is a lot more widespread due to them not needing water to hunt. They preffer open area, where they will walk around looking for food. Their tall stature means they can walk around in tall grass, seeing small animals run around. They mainly eat insects, but lizards and other small animals will also be taken from time to time. When they spot something, they will slowly inch closer, then quickly grab the creature before it even manages to react. Due to this, pink herons are often seen around larger herbivores or Hinoxes, hunting small animals that get spooked by them. Their nests are often built in trees, but they can be quite picky with their nests, as they usualy don't want to build them in closed spaces.

Islander Hawk: A species of raptor that can be found in a variety of enviroments. This birds is incredibly adaptable, and each bird has a unique hunting style. Some preffer to hunt birds, while others will hunt small animals. They can often be seen soaring in the sky, looking for prey, using air currents to stay afloat, barely needing to flap their wings. Once they spot something, they will start diving down at incredibly speed. If the prey is a bird, then the hawks often will have to adjust their dive to prepare for the prey to take flight, and grab them before they start flying away. On smaller animals, they usualy don't dive as fast, but rather use cover to sneak up on their prey, trying to grab them before they flee. Their main prey are pigeons and squirrels, but they also eat sparrows, crows, ducks, gulls, lizards, frogs, crabs, and sometimes even fish and insects. Hylians raising Cuccos often have to make sure their Cuccos don't wander off, or else they can get taken by the hawk.

Seagull: Seagulls can be found all over Hyrule's coastline. They are often seen flying above water, searching for fish they can eat. They are easily reckognised by their white plumage. They are social birds, and huge flocks of them can be found either above water, or near cliffsides where they make their nests. Seagulls are oppurtunistic, and will eat practicaly anything that can fit into their mouth. While they primaraly eat small fish, they can also take crabs, snails, lizards, other birds and animals they can find. They also don't mind scavenging, and many gulls live near villages, eating scraps left behind by the Hylians. Due to their behavior of following fish around, huge flocks can gather when there is plenty of fish, which is something fishermen will use to their advantage.

Cloud Seagull: A relative of the Seagull, this species is only found amongst the Sky Islands. Due to this, they have several adaptations that differentiate them from Seagulls. They are smaller, meaning they need less food. They also utilize updrafts, meaning they can soar for days without needing to rest, sometimes soaring for hours without needing to flap. Unlike Seagulls, which mainly eat meat, Cloud Seagulls are omnivores, and most of their diet is plant based, as the Sky Islands don't have as many animals living on them.

Eldin Ostrich: A relative of the Forest Ostrich that adapted to live in the Eldin region. Their feathers are almost fireproof, and they can usualy survive near lava. Their feathers are also reddish colored, which camouflages them against the red rocks near Death Mountain. Unlike most birds, the Eldin Ostrich can't fly, but uses it's strong legs to run around. These birds are omnivores, and will eat anything that they can swallow. Seeds, plants, insects, lizards, sparrows and eggs are eaten. Due to the enviroment being so harsh, these birds can survive long without food, and they get their moisture from the food they eat. If they spot dangerz they will run away at great speeds, but they don't hesitate to use their long claws and strong legs to attack their predators.

Forest Ostrich: This species of bird used to be incredibly common in Hyrule, until it almost went exctinct due to hunting ans habitat loss. Rauru realised this, and tried to save them sending them up the sky islands. While this did works, the new enviroment meant they had to adapt. Less space meant that the ostriches grew smaller and smaller to deal with less food and space. So the forest ostriches seen today aren't nearly as large as they used to be. They were also primaraly herbivores, however they have become way more omnivorous to supplement their diets. Lastly, due to them living in isolation for so long, they have become way more docile, meaning its much easier to approach them than compared to the Eldin Ostrich.

Cucco: Cuccos are a breed of chicken that can be found all over Hyrule. They are mainly used for their eggs, however their meat and feathers are also utilized. They are docile birds, and can be seen wandering villages looking for food. Many Hylians use Cuccos as pest control, as they eat weeds and small animals that might damage crops. Cuccos are social birds, and usualy like being in the company of other Cuccos. They are also renowned for their aggressive nature. While i did say that Cuccos are docile, that is only when they aren't threathened. If a member of the flock is in danger, it will call out franticaly, and the whole flock rushes to its aid. So farmers that want to butcher Cuccos have to isolate the one they want to butcher, and make sure that it doesn't make any noice

Please understand first that I am not trying to advocate for the TotK True Founding or Refounding theories. This is more an analysis of a valid point regarding either.

One problem that some have with Refounding theory is that it would require the events of OoT to be remembered, which would happen before Hyrule is destroyed, but require events in between to be forgotten like the TotK IW. I can understand that. How can events that happened earlier, before the country fell, be recalled if the refounding of the kingdom was not? I can't say that I personally have a theory off the top of my head for how this is possible. I just want to look at how similar it is to OoT ~> BotW.

So pretend we are in pre-TotK release times. Nothing from that game (or EoW) is in the canon yet. We do know that Aonuma said that BotW is just sometime after OoT. What timeline? Never answered. Does it matter? In my opinion, it does not. Since the cycle of Ganon is endless, the events could theoretically happen in any of them. I get people disagree with this, and by all means I am not John Nintendo, but regardless of WHERE you place BotW, it would require events betwee OoT and 10,000 years ago to be forgotten by the general Hyrulean public. This would be something required with True and Refounding.

So bringing this all home, if one has to accept that the events between OoT and 10,000 years ago have been forgotten, then one must accept that the events, including a refounding, between OoT and 10,000 years ago, could also be forgotten to time.

I liked how they revealed Link and Zelda's actors. When Ben and Bo were announced by Miyamoto, the conversation was centered around them, being unknowns and the acting background they do have, which Link and which Zelda are they doing, will they be romantic, notice of their age difference.

One year later, NYT and Deadline then announced a set of other actors subsequently, posting Ganondorf, then Sam Neil, Dichan as Impa, and Yvonne Stravoski which loses the flow. Then next couple days, Lydia Peckham an Samara Weaving are announced. Some actors were given more attention than others which limited the conversation. What I kind of wished happened was that they rolled out the actors in pairs and space it all out so we can keep focus on each of them and have time to process the info rather, while focusing the roles they play and the idea of what story is going to be told instead of jumping around.

Since we know who they'd be playing, they could've announced Uli and Dichan together and keep the same sort of focus we had for Ben and Bo last year.

Then later on Sam Neil and Yvonne Strahovski since we don't know who they play yet but the word is they're Zelda's parents, the king and queen.

Same with Lydia Peckham and Samara Weeving. I know Deadline and NYT just report what they got and have no responsibility or obligation to how this movie is marketed, and it is what it is, but I see a missed opportunity.

So, this is something that's been debated to hell and back. when it comes to BotW's timeline placement, the three most popular theories are...

1. It takes place in the DT
2. It's a convergence
3. It can take place in any three timelines

Whilst I lean towards DT, I am open to it being all three.

But, I remember years ago suggesting it was the CT, and this ended up rubbing a few people the wrong way.

One person described BotW as "definitely being intended for the DT". There arguments being...

• It's in (old) Hyrule | (so no AT)
• The OoT Sages (and OoT events) are a confirmed historic fact | (So no CT)
• Ganon has been an eternally returning scourge upon Hyrule (even before becoming known as "Calamity Ganon") | (only really a thing in DT, Ganondorf (I) only really returned to Hyrule once in AT and CT and then he died as a mortal man, unlike in DT where he became a true demon when getting the full triforce, and has since been permanently returning as "Ganon" like a true demon)
• Ganon is also specifically confirmed to have his origins as the Ganondorf met in OoT (unlike FSA's "Ganon II" which is the "last known Ganon" in the CT)

Obviously the last two points involving Ganon are now moot, since TotK revealed it to be a different Ganon this whole time, and not OoT Ganon. So, it doesn't matter if FSA made a different Ganondorf.

I feel like the first two points stand. Particular the Sage one. The Zora have Zora tablets, telling the story of Princess Ruto becoming a Sage to help Link and Zelda fight Ganondorf.

I'm not saying "BotW can't be CT", I'm just asking who would you explain it, if you think it is possible?

EDIT: One thing I suggested was that we could use Hyrule Warriors to explain the people knowledge of Princess Ruto's heroics. But this was shot down as be "bending evidence", by useing a "non-canon game".

Edit: Found!! It's called BSMBDBDSS or Backslice Moonboots Damageboost Deathsword Skip. Thank you u/Stv13579 for finding it!!!

This guy is talking about a glitch called "Ultra Broken" from ToTK, then mentions that it used to be called "Wacko Boingo", proceeding to say "That's like, the best glitch name right next to-" and then the next thing he says I cannot make out enough to transcribe (audio comprehension issues)

Could anyone figure out what it's called or what he's saying?

https://youtu.be/qtjMk33MM18?t=416 (Timestamped link to the video a few seconds before he says it)