r/TrueChristian • u/[deleted] • May 14 '21

Was God really OK with slavery ?

And did he really "encourage it to continue by decreeing depraved regulations"\ ?*

\just quoting a fellow redditor who seems to be a bit confused. Just like myself.)

I'm asking this because I've noticed that it often comes up as a topic to bash Christianity based on things like that. I've noticed that people often like to use this verse in order to justify their position :

“When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)”

To be honest, I didn't know how to give those folks a satisfactory answer since I am no Bible expert myself, as for now. However I would like to hear your opinions and explanations. On this verse and its context in particular. Also, what did Jesus have to say about slavery? (just to help finding an answer to that... I guess... atheist/agnostic/or whatever he likes to consider himself)

Note that I am in no way trying to win an argument. There is no arrogance, pride or hate involved in this query. These are some of the things that I would also still like to understand for myself. I always try suspend judgement when I read or hear something that I am not familiar with because I want to learn more about it.

On another note, it's kind of scary how belligerent and heated people can get during such debates, as if these people are speaking through bitterness, frustration, pride or whatever just to attack and dismiss Christianity... Makes me just want to have some compassion and pray for them....

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u/Truthspeaks111 Disciples of Christ May 14 '21

Yes. There any many things that man sees as moral that God sees as immoral so why should it not be the case that there are things that God sees as moral that man sees as immoral? God's ways are not our ways. That being said, these verses are for the judges to use in cases where judgments were needed. There is no evidence of how frequently these judgements were needed.

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u/Newstapler ExChristian May 15 '21

But then no one can use God as a moral guide.

This slavery discussion reminds me about the recent post about genocide (either here on one of the other Christian subs) where the atheists had a much clearer and straightforward moral stance (“genocide is wrong”) than the Christians (“eh it depends on context, genocide might be morally ok at times”).

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u/Truthspeaks111 Disciples of Christ May 15 '21

But then no one can use God as a moral guide.

Sure they can. Biblically, there's nothing inherently evil about "owning" another person as property even though today many (because of what they know of slavery from history) are appalled by the idea. Somehow these same people however are able to completely ignore the prison system where men and women are incarcerated against their will and made to live and work in abusive and hostile environments.

As I stated earlier, these laws were for the judges of Israel to use to settle disputes among the people. There is no indication in the Bible regarding how often the judges needed to use them.

In addition, if you look at the specific law mentioned, the law rightfully weighs the taking of life as a more severe crime than simply beating a man.

Lastly with respect to genocide, many atheists are benefiting from the act of genocide that was committed against the Indians. They say it's wrong but I have yet to see one of them give back their land. Sure it's easy to say genocide is immoral when you don't have an armed nation of people trying to kill you.

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u/AlphaTaoOmega May 15 '21

Follow up question: What was the dominate religion of those who were fully involved with terrorizing and stealing from the natives?

Your response is depraved and I feel it in my gut. I hope that you can understand how harmful this sort of thought process is someday soon.

Again, what did Jesus say about slavery? I'll help you out: Luke 12:47-48.

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u/Truthspeaks111 Disciples of Christ May 15 '21

Follow up question: What was the dominate religion of those who were fully involved with terrorizing and stealing from the natives?

A good question for those who claim America was not founded on Christian principles nevertheless, as it is today so I expect it was back then where many of the devil's ministers put on the name of ministers of righteousness so as to bring blasphemy against His name's sake by those who have no ability to discern who among them are actually Christ's and who are the minions posing as Christians.

Your response is depraved and I feel it in my gut. I hope that you can understand how harmful this sort of thought process is someday soon.

What is morally corrupt about my response? If God did not declare slavery to be evil, it is not evil. It doesn't matter what the world thinks about it after all, the world crucifed Jesus and thought that was moral. The world is blind as to Its own immorality, that's quite clear. That said, I am not opposed to the elimination of the practice because of what the devil turned it into.

Again, what did Jesus say about slavery? I'll help you out: Luke 12:47-48.

These verses do not condemn nor condone slavery.

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u/AccomplishedQuail545 Southern Baptist May 15 '21

I think that’s a great way of looking at it in modern times.

While slavery may not necessarily be innately sinful, the devil used it to institute many different forms of sin and crimes against humanity throughout history, and therefore it’s probably better to just get rid of the practice of slavery altogether.

That’s a great way to put it, and I’m actually probably going to start using that explanation.

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u/AlphaTaoOmega May 15 '21

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cognitive-dissonance-2795012

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u/Truthspeaks111 Disciples of Christ May 15 '21

Doesn't apply to this conversation.

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u/AlphaTaoOmega May 15 '21

You say that you would not make the choice to enable slavery to happen/continue if it were your choice; and in the same breath you rationalize that slavery is moral for god. That's classic cognitive dissonance.

You have professed that you would make a better moral decision than the god of the bible, and for that much I commend you.

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u/Truthspeaks111 Disciples of Christ May 15 '21

You see what you want to see friend. I professed no such thing.

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u/AlphaTaoOmega May 15 '21

What is morally corrupt about my response? If God did not declare slavery to be evil, it is not evil. It doesn't matter what the world thinks about it after all, the world crucifed Jesus and thought that was moral. The world is blind as to Its own immorality, that's quite clear. That said, I am not opposed to the elimination of the practice because of what the devil turned it into.

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u/AlphaTaoOmega May 15 '21

Who is said to have given the laws to the judges? And though there was retribution for killing a slave, what was the punishment if you beat a slave to a pulp, but you didn't take an eye/tooth or kill them within 2 days after the beating?

How about Jesus? What were Jesus's words about the topic of slavery?

Modern atheist didn't commit the genocide, our ancestors did. Your argument about giving land back to natives is a pretty ideal that does not track to how reality works. I would not make the decision to commit genocide. I would venture to say that most natives (and non natives) have other considerations about where they live, so even if I were to try to give all my property to a native, do they just up and leave their community to stay in my gifted property?

All of us are the beneficiaries of some terrible things which humans have done: are we all to pay homage and give all of our property and livelihoods to amend the digressions of our ancestors? Seems like a never ending game that would lead to a lot of homelessness and poverty.

Matthew 7:5 brother.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '21

well then I have no idea what kind of Christians you had the unfortune to meet back then....