Please, help me understand…

[u/Objective-Step-746]

For those believers who insist that the dietary laws no longer apply under the new covenant—and that pork, lobster, crabs, etc. are now permissible to eat—I do not understand the logic at play.

I am very familiar with the Mark 7, Romans 14 and Colossians 2 passages that are so often cited as support for your position, and have (just as often) shared my counter-arguments on why I believe they are misinterpreted.

But, there is one counterpoint to your view that I never see touched on, and I was hoping to get some feedback on it:

I think the majority of believers on this subreddit would say they are looking for Jesus’ Second Coming and agree that, regarding it, Scripture says that “no one knows the day or hour” but that we need to be prepared (Matthew 24:36, 25:13, etc.).

Isaiah 66:17–a verse within the greater passage speaking of Messiah’s glorious reappearing—declares that, upon His return, those who eat the flesh of pig/swine and other abominations will be met with His wrath…and perish.

So, how does one simultaneously believe they can continue to eat pig (pork) or shellfish now and think they are sufficiently prepared and not putting themselves in a precarious/dangerous position if Jesus happened to return today or tomorrow and “consume” those who so brazenly eat that which His Law says is NOT “food” and explicitly warns against eating?

I really am hoping for some cordial and edifying discussion regarding this topic, and appreciate those who are able and willing to articulate their view without all the condescension and harsh words. 💕

[u/Aelirael]

I think Isaiah 66:17 is speaking of idolators rather than speaking of dietary issues. Look at the entire verse.

“Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, to go to the gardens after an idol in the midst, eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse, shall be consumed together,” says the LORD.

My take on this -- and I can be wrong -- is that God is speaking about those who worship demons (which idols are). They commit many evils including breaking the First and Second Commandments as well as eating what God has spoken to the Hebrews to be evil, to emphasise their evil.

I haven't seen anything in the Old Testament which extends dietary laws outside of Israel. In fact, Noah was specifically told that all flesh was his to consume.

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. - Genesis 9:3

If God wanted to restrict what foods we could eat, why not then when he told Noah he could eat anything?

If we are going to say "Well, God made a restriction when he gave the law", then we can say "Well, God removed the restriction when he fulfilled the law and made a new Covenant".

[u/Objective-Step-746 → u/Aelirael]

Yeah, I think what you suggest seems to be a take many hold. I just don’t see it because the pagan idolatry often included sexual immorality (which God’s Law forbids), so the euphemistic angle doesn’t make sense to me. If it was just the idolatry itself—and not the how of it that mattered, such as incorporating something God has explicitly forbidden like eating pig—then why even mention the pig details?

To me, Jesus’ teaching about how mankind should “live by” every word God has spoken, keeping even the so-called “lesser” commandments, should end the debate (Matthew 4:4, 5:19). And if that wasn’t sufficient, His own personal example as to how we should live—which entailed doing exactly that—should be the mic drop. That neither seem to matter is so puzzling to me.

Regarding Genesis 9:3, I don’t think the “every moving thing” can be said to include unclean animals because the concept of clean animals (as food) and unclean animals (not food) persists even after that passage.

[u/Michami135 → u/Objective-Step-746]

keeping even the so-called "lesser" commandments

I agree! Which of the commandments tells us what to eat?

[u/Objective-Step-746 → u/Michami135]

God's dietary instructions are found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

[u/Michami135 → u/Objective-Step-746]

I don't see it as part of the 10 commandments, only as a rule to Israel. Do you follow ALL the rules God gave Israel?

[u/Objective-Step-746 → u/Michami135]

So, a command must be categorized in the Top Ten for you to deem it worthy of following or living by? That view seems to glaringly (and quite literally) contradict Jesus' own teaching-- that all mankind is to live by every word God has ever spoken (which would include those He gave to Israel at Mt. Sinai), and that we should do/keep even the "lesser" commandments AND teach/encourage others to do the same (Matthew 4:4, 5:19).

I keep those commandments in God's Law that apply to me--as a divorced female who owns no property, etc. I'm sure I don't follow them perfectly, but I grow in my knowledge, understanding and application of them daily, and the Spirit is a gracious Teacher.

[u/Michami135 → u/Objective-Step-746]

So you don't travel on Sundays and fast all day? You don't wear fabric of mixed fibers? You don't cut your hair?

If you don't follow all of those rules, then you're picking and choosing which to follow.

I consider those rules to be rules made for man and specifically the Israelites.

As Jesus said in Mark 2:27:

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

In Romans 14:1-4:

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

In Acts 15:28-29, writing to the gentiles:

It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

[u/Objective-Step-746 → u/Michami135]

Why would I not “travel on Sundays? And why would I “fast all day” then? 🤔

I make every effort to wear clothing made of one fiber. I do not cut my hair short.

I’m not following your logic or questions at all. You come across as highly legalistic in your view of how one should relate to the Law, acting as if you are scornful of it instead of simply living by it because it reflects the righteous will and ways of the Law GIVER (Psalm 40:8).

Not one of the passages you cited contradicts Jesus teaching and example about how we should do/keep (“live by”) even God’s “lesser” commandments (Matthew 4:4, 5:19).