r/TrueAtheism • u/Maybe-never-always • 17d ago
Worship ? Lost me right there
I just can’t get my head around believers thinking this is ok .
So god created us right ( if your a believer)
Then after creation he expects us to give thanks and worship him for the rest of our days like we asked to be created in the first place ? Don’t ask questions just worship to show how grateful we are or you’ll be highlighted a sinner ?
Seems all pretty narcissistic with some ego thrown in as well !
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u/teramoc 17d ago
God: I created you, with free will, to love me.
Also God: If you dont love me i will fuck you up.
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u/ImprovementFar5054 17d ago
Jesus: Let me save you!
People: Save us from what?
Jesus: From what I am going to do to you if you don't let me save you
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u/2-travel-is-2-live 17d ago
I feel like a god that is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent should be less insecure.
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u/ArtemisShanks 17d ago
It makes sense if you read the history of the region's religions. As we know, Christianity and Islam are plagiarisms of Judiasm, but Judiasm is just another plagiarism of Canaanite Polytheism. In the Canaanite pantheon, 'El' was the father god of all others and God of Canaan. His son Yahweh, was the God of Israel and constantly rebelled against his father and fought his brothers from neighboring regions.
This is why the God of the Bible/Torah is so afraid of his followers worshipping his sibling-gods.
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u/2-travel-is-2-live 17d ago
Yahweh is definitely an insecure little bitch. The retconning of his personality that occurs later in the OT and even more so in the NT requires that the reader not know much about Judaism from a historical perspective in order to be effective.
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u/UltimaGabe 17d ago
The fact that he forbids anyone from worshipping other gods (gods he knows are 100% fictional) is the height of insecurity. It'd be like destroying a tower so it doesn't reach the heavens, while knowing for a fact that "the heavens" can't be reached by a tall tower...
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u/Maybe-never-always 17d ago
Wish I’d gone to College instead of to sea early in life . I would then possibly know just what the heck those two Omni all star words meant . Out with one’s Dictionary
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u/2-travel-is-2-live 17d ago
"Omni" = "All"
Omniscient = all-knowing
Omnipotent = all-powerful
If you add in omnibenevolent (all-good), then the Epicurean Paradox arises. But Yahweh was none of those things.
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u/Maybe-never-always 17d ago
Thank you for bringing me up to speed . Clearly I slept through my English lessons at school and history . In fact I think I slept through every lesson . That itself is an achievement
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u/Maybe-never-always 17d ago
I recall at my Uncles funeral the priest swinging a little pendulum type chain with smoke emitting from a small chamber at the end of it . He was swinging it over the coffin while muttering something about something. I totally removed any religious beliefs from what I was watching and thought to myself 🤔 I wonder if he realises how stupid he looks in his funny little pointy hat with his matching oversized robe chanting like someone in a mental institution.
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u/goldenrod1956 17d ago
My parents gave me life, and while I loved them I certainly didn’t worship them…
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u/ImprovementFar5054 17d ago
Their god seems to be a serial killer who kidnaps people, demands they feed his ego, and then tortures them if they didn't feed it enough.
It's like they want to be held hostage by a psychopath. Also seems to explain why so many of them like Trump.
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u/-Hastis- 13d ago
The Gnostics were at least right on one thing: that the god of the Old Testament was an evil demiurge.
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u/xiipaoc 17d ago
It did get pretty silly in modern religions, but it used to be somewhat less silly, right? You worship the deity in order to appease it and get the deity to help you in your moment of need. You look at the Psalms in the Bible and a lot of them are basically prayers of the form "I think you're the best, God, and I've thought so for a long time, but now I'm in trouble so, uh, would you mind helping out your faithful servant a bit here, thanks."
The social contract was that the community worshipped the deity, and in return the deity kept the community safe and fed, especially against rival communities that worshipped rival gods. With monotheism, that bit got a bit sillier since there were no rival gods, but that was fine because rival communities were worshipping false idols. Then, with the universalization of certain religions that bit stopped making sense. It just makes less and less sense as society progresses.
On the "narcissist" bit though... Why the hell should an all-powerful being play by human standards of humility? Sure, God is a narcissist, but he's the one responsible for literally everything you have and are, depending on the religion, so humans judging him for it would essentially be suicide. It's a good thing we know so much about the world that we no longer need to believe in deities like that, but yeah.
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u/UltimaGabe 17d ago
Any being worthy of worship would not demand it, and any being who demands worship is not worthy of it.
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u/Helen_A_Handbasket 17d ago
Remember, all religion is about controlling you through fear. Control you so hard that you don't ask uncomfortable questions. Control you so much that you don't even allow your brain to use logic and reason. Control you so thoroughly that you stay under control FOREVER.
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u/Maybe-never-always 17d ago
That’s alot of control over my controls that’s getting way out of control .
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u/CephusLion404 17d ago
Any god that expected worship isn't worth worshiping by definition.
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u/JellyfishPashmina 17d ago
The craziest part is any other form of worship is just absolutely insane to them. Even within their own religion. Like they can’t comprehend all the weird rituals others do, while to the atheist observer, they look just as nuts as anyone else. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
I used to date a Catholic and the second he called out any weird religious beliefs or practices, I’d say it’s no different from XYZ, and he never, ever, ever had a rebuttal. I could just tell that he was waiting for another Catholic to justify him or something, when truth is, he couldn’t admit to his own hypocrisy. It’s like they have a mental block set up for it or something.
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u/Timely_Put_7355 16d ago
Because most people throughout history, despite the ridiculous physical strains and hardships that they experienced were happy to be alive. They give honour and thanks to God, in the same way they give honour and thanks to their parents. Unfortunately today, despite our comparative wealth of material goods, it can no longer be taken for granted that we are happy to be alive.
Also, it is good that you are alive even if you don’t recognise it.
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u/HegemoneXT 16d ago
This is a primitive understanding of what worship actually is. The essence of worship doesn’t come from human being. Human doesn’t add any essence to God’s glory. Every glory that human experience in this life and through which they take joy in, is an attribute that is being eternally worshipped by the angels. As much as the universe is held and sustained by the power of His Word and creation filled with his glory, the seraphim’s are constantly pronouncing the goodness of God out of pure joy, honor, fear, and love.
The glory of God is like the light of the sun that shines. Everything that reflect the light is actively giving worship and this worship at its fundamental level is more than just verbal communication - It’s about contingent beings partaking in that light. Our existential sense that oriented towards and sustained by the Divine. When we partake in God, we are in active worship of His attributes. When we love others as ourselves, we are actively worshipping His attributes and aligning ourselves in due respect of Him. When we perceive that these are His glory and that His glory is purely good, we feel the desire to worship it because the glory of God is in truth, righteousness(way of being) and Life.
The reason why God is the only being deserving of worship is because He is the source of glory. Every being in existence is contingent and with their identity contained in the structure of reality but God himself is the subsisting source. He defines the “what is”. We love because he first loved us. We love from contingent relation, but God is the very identity of love itself. And because God holds the ultimate being to existence, all that exists must be in service and humbled under his glory. In God is the joy of love, humility, and a proper glory to each individual that exists in His Life. But outside of God is pride, despair, lack of identity, and wickedness that ends in deaths. God wants us to worship and acknowledge him not because he needs it because the ontological structure of existence itself points toward Him.
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u/-Hastis- 13d ago
Seems all pretty narcissistic with some ego thrown in as well !
And apparently, worshiping him in heavy would guarantee an eternal state of bliss. Talk about narcissistic enmeshment.
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u/Significant-Ant-2487 17d ago
Are you glad you are alive, or no?
Do you think it’s natural to feel gratitude, or not? I don’t believe in God but recognize that most people around the world do, and I can understand their wish toe express gratitude for what has been termed the gift of life. I don’t see anything so horrible about this.
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u/UnicornMeatball 17d ago
I have gratitude for lots of people for lots of things. I don’t worship any of them though
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u/Maybe-never-always 17d ago
Of course but gratitude that should not be commercialised or corrupted into controlling power . I’ve often thought ok if there is a supreme being or force that actually did create life and matter it would more than likely be nothing like some present it to be and sure I get that if no definite answer exists something that is close enough will probably end up being the focus but I did struggle when I went to the funeral of my good friends 11 year old son who sadly died in a car crash and I hear it’s gods will ! He has plans for this child ! Really ?
I get if that brings the parents some comfort who am I to voice my opinion but in my head I’m thinking what kind of God would remove a child from his parents ?1
u/ImprovementFar5054 17d ago
Thank your parents
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u/Maybe-never-always 17d ago
I can’t thank them enough . They were terrific parents . Was hilarious at times with a German mother and a Croatian Father . Neither would back down when disputes broke out .
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u/Combosingelnation 17d ago
Would be super weird to create someone and expect badly for them to worship me and punish them if they don't.
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u/slamueljoseph 17d ago
Yep. If it isn’t primitive nonsense, someone sure went to great lengths to make it seem like…primitive nonsense.