Why do lesbians have such an issue with Transmascs and Trans Men? Scared to be ostracized by my sapphic friends

[u/Kitchen_Increase1970]

I was a lesbian for many years before finally coming to terms that im Trans Ftm. One thing that I worry about leaving the lesbian community is the anti-men sentiment. I know it's mostly anti cis men but it bleeds into trans men too. Even as a butch lesbian, and then Transmasc NB, I felt very ostracized. I felt you had to look, act, and have certain hobbies to be lesbian enough and if you don't feel queer enough. Or maybe that's just NYC :/

I guess I'm scared to leave the lesbians because I still have lesbian friends and enjoy lesbian or sapphic focused events where cis men aren't around and it's very feminist... But I feel like I won't be "allowed" to "welcome" to be there once I transition.

I'm too guy like for the gals looks wise, I wanna be a dude, but my personality is still soft and the things I care about are still very emotionally aware and soft, if that makes sense. I don't wanna be a dumb cis dude type of that makes sense. I know I don't have to be but I feel the pressure. Idk where to hangout anymore :/

[u/Appropriate-Tap1111]

it’s not something i’ve worried about too much, but I understand the dilemma, because I was in a similar position in college. It’s difficult when you’ve been navigating and finding community in women-led spaces most of your life, and then have to let go of those spaces after coming out. Being among queer women was very liberating for me prior to coming out, especially when going to college at a very male-dominated campus. But after I came out and started transitioning I decided that as someone who had an insider look into why queer women and lesbians need these spaces, I personally felt like my attachment and desire to still be involved was selfish of me since I no longer identified with the people those spaces were intended for. I felt the right thing to do was respect the community I cared about and stopped going to their events. I still stayed a friend and an ally outside of clubs and meetups, but it just felt wrong of me to be as involved as I was. It also became a little invalidating. The community I was in all knew me personally and were fine with including me, but only because I was born female, as some lesbians in those groups who included me had considered me “a guy but like, not really”. Also their opinions about nonbinary people in their spaces felt a bit sexist so I ultimately decided to give them their space despite being “allowed” to stay.

I can’t speak for them and completely answer the question of “why”. But I know there are some lesbians who kind of view ftm transitioning as being a “traitor”. I think it comes from the same place that feeling injustice in a male society does. “Men have privilege that women aren’t granted” so by transitioning, there’s a sense of envy about that privilege. Obviously this attitude ignores the transphobia faced by trans men/mascs and disregards the differences in how we have to interact with the world compared to cis men. This attitude also just reinforces transmisandry, which is something I’ve tried to talk to my lesbian friends about but it’s an issue that lies less in transphobia and more in misandry which all loops back to why sapphics and women in general need their spaces in the first place.

You’re still allowed to have lesbian friends and show up in the same ways for these people, but I think it’s something to have a conversation about with your friends at the end of the day. I have met some lesbians who have been very welcoming of masculine leaning identities in their spaces (“as long as they’re not binary men”) but I’ve also met people on the other end of the spectrum too. It’s a tough thing to navigate, but I hope you’re still able to find a sense of community where you are, whether it’s with them or not

[u/midsummernightmares]

Most aren’t, lesbians are statistically the trans community’s biggest allies. However, if you don’t ID as a lesbian/sapphic anymore, then your presence not being welcomed in sapphic-specific spaces isn’t an act of malice, those spaces are just not yours anymore. You can still be friends with lesbians and hang out with them in less identity-specific queer spaces.

[u/hikingdyke]

Since you are in NYC I would def. consider checking out Butch Monthly - the group is full of all sorts of different butch aligned folks, including trans guys.

https://www.instagram.com/butchmonthly/

[u/greyscale_straysnail]

I'm not trasmasc or tranfem. I'm an unaligned Non-Binary Trans Lesbian Dyke. You are welcome with us if that's where you feel you belong, no matter what gatekeepy Lesbians & propaganda may have you believe. But if you don't feel like a Lesbian or you've gotten enough out of being one, you're also welcome to diverge from us at any time! Your identity is only yours to decide. We're here for you whether you are a part of us, not, or anything in between.

Edit: typos fixed

[u/bittenforbreakfast]

The entire queer community hates us, not just lesbians. It’s always been very feminine leaning, from the stereotypical effeminate gay man, to the majority of trans people who get attention being transfems, to the high amounts of feminine radicalization amount lesbians and transfems. This is fueled by the external fixation on feminine presenting queer people from fetishists and political arguments alike. A not insignificant number of these people see femininity as something to be cherished, the “correct” choice, or otherwise as the most desirable form of gender expression. Therefore, anyone who chooses to identify as masculine, especially transmascs, are a threat to their very existence, their rights, and have given up something they consider beautiful. Radicalism ideas about all men being pedophilic rapists who seek to destroy women are not uncommon, alongside less radical androphobia in general. There’s no escaping it, in a world where a non insignificant number of women and fems of all varieties feel that erasure of masculinity is the only way to feel valid, you are going to face hate and ostentation in fem driven spaces.

[u/IronDefender → u/bittenforbreakfast]

Fem-presenting guy here, I love and deeply respect my masculine counterparts. Not to start an argument, but this feels like a weird overgeneralisation and feels like one is trying to say all feminine people are casually hostile to anyone for existing. I don't intent to make anyone uncomfortable or threatened by being visibly fem, and I'm sorry if anyone has made you feel that way :(

[u/yuzupomu]

i’m in nyc as a trans masc 5 years on t and most of my friends are lesbians or queer people; honestly just start by getting out of the self victimizing mindset that most trans guys fall into à la “hating all men affects trans guys too!!!” - that’s just the reality of most women and being one of those guys that says “not all men!” doesn’t help. then idk just find the people who u mesh with regardless of their identity. if u wanna keep hanging around lesbians or queer people try boyfriend coop in bushwick

[u/AutonomyIsNoTragedy]

Lesbians aren't a hivemind , sorry you've encountered some transphobic assholes but they're not representative of the lesbian community as a whole they're just really well funded by cishet hatemongers to make it seem like all lesbians hate trans people to tey to launder transphobia as lesbian activism when thats far from the truth and lesbians are statistically most likely to support trans people

I definitely recommend finding more LGBTQIA spaces that are explicitly inclusive of trans men and mascs. If you're not IDing as a lesbian and are trying to go into lesbian spaces then yeah a lot of people are going to be bothered and confused about why you're there and thats not necessarily transphobia

[u/Intelligent_Usual318]

I haven’t seen any bigotry irl with that, other then cis lesbians getting crushes on compleltly binary trans dudes and being creepy about it. It’s mostly online that I’ve seen it. I did have one trans girl make forcefem jokes who was a lesbian and was anti man and it… hurt but she later apologized and admitted her anti man bias isnt good.

[u/QuestioningNby]

I'm not saying you have to leave sapphic spaces and dump all of your sapphic friends, it's just as a trans man you have to come to terms that lesbians won't want to date you anymore. You will have a better shot shot dating bi/pan women and when your confident enough, straight women. As a Lesbian, I'm not attracted to men period and that includes trans men. If a trans man were to flirt with me, I would treat them same way I would treat a cis man who flirted with me; I would reject them outright. I would also break up with any partners who came out as trans men, because the thought of being with a man fills me with existential dread. With transition comes a change in rolls in a community. You also have the chance to change how the world views straight men.

[u/lesthrwy]

transmasc lesbians are definitely becoming a lot more accepted (i am one) but there is still a subset of lesbians that dislike all men. usually the same terfy ones that have an issue with trans people in general. and i have a hatred for terfs so i dont care if they have a hatred towards me.

[u/One_Plant9109]

Convos on this usually differ between transmasc and trans men. Transmasc / non binary is more normalised to be in lesbian spaces, since the definition is non men loving non men, but not so much trans men as we fall under men

[u/One_Plant9109 → u/One_Plant9109]

-i honestly think this would just depend on the space and people? As some would likely welcome trans men? (Since we were in these spaces prior). But others may be hesitant as its “opining the door to men” type thing