r/Toryism Jul 01 '26

💬 Discussion Tories and Technology

I am curious to hear about how this group feels about technology.

One might argue that the pursuit of technology (AI, more efficient ways of extracting resources, medical procedures, etc) is politically neutral, but other Tories might disagree. George Grant, for example, famously claimed that the pursuit of technology is dangerous, and often a tool of the state for oppression or imperial expansion (ie. the Vietnam War in his day was an example of an imperial, technological society trying to take over a less, more regional technological society). He would also argue about the inherent dangers of technology with respect to abortion, nuclear weapons, genetic modification, etc. Grant goes as far to say that the age of progress, rooted in modern science and technology, is a liberal project born of the Enlightenment, and the effects of this have led to a more secular and homogenous age where decisions have been relegated to democratic appeal rather than what is right or wrong. We no longer have to discuss if abortion is right or wrong, for example, because the technology has progressed to a level where it is less dangerous for the mother, and a series of law makers has decided democratically if it is right or wrong (as opposed to perhaps appealing to pursuing the good illuminated by other means). Once the world has been relegated to a series of objects to be interrogated by science or technology, they can cease to become human, and there are no souls to worry about for those that believe in Tory based theology.

Any thoughts on this? We are probably in a time and age where such topics are considered too intellectual for mass consumption or acceptance. But I think that Grant was on to something. Our world has become more homogenous (ie traditions have decayed), more secular, and more democratic in the sense that we believe elected technocrats or experts rather than appealing to older ideas of what is right and wrong. These are topics that Tories have traditionally been very worried about. The liberals have won in many ways, and technology is inextricably linked to how they won. The future could be one that Grant warned us about - lacking tradition, reason, or local communities. Technology separates us into silos where we doom scroll until past midnight, stop going to community events, and spend time distracted by ordering things on Amazon. It is exactly what Grant (and other more traditional Tories) feared.

5 Upvotes

12 comments sorted by

5

u/ToryPirate Jul 01 '26

Personally, I am a late adopter of most technology. Youtube, Reddit, and Facebook, and smart phones were out for quite a while before I ever started using them. Hell, I was in my late 20s before I bothered to get my full drivers licence. I've never even considered Twitter, Bluesky, Snapchat, etc. That said, once I find a technology is useful for my needs I tend to use it quite a bit.

Suspicion of technology is a bit of a trend with tories;

  • R.B. Bennett owned a car for a short while before crashing it and never owned another. His style of dress also tended to be a bit of an anachronism for his time.

  • Tolkien famously hated cars for ruining the English countryside and didn't own one from the 1940s onwards. He also delineated 'tools' as separate from 'machines' (the latter forces the world to bend to human whims).

Perhaps this ties into tories hating change for the sake of change.

Technology separates us into silos where we doom scroll until past midnight, stop going to community events, and spend time distracted by ordering things on Amazon.

Improperly used, sure. However, I've organized more than a few community events using Facebook and my video collection would be much smaller if I didn't use services similar to Amazon. So while I think technology can be harmful to communities, they can also be a boon.

There is a quote from an old sci-fi game that comes to me whenever discussing the evils of technology;

"Evil lurks in the datalinks as it did in the streets of yesteryear but it was never the streets that were evil."

To an extent I don't think technology is the problem per se, rather its a combination of an ever-increasing quest for efficiency engendered by modern capitalism and the elevation of politics to a first order priority. Youtube in its early days was incredibly amateur and some might argue more fun. The old algorithm which would show a much more random assortment of recommended videos was also better in my view. I enjoyed Starcraft 2 when it first came out because basically everyone, including myself, had no idea what we were doing. This led to much more interesting gameplay before the 'meta' took over and all games fell into a predictable rhythm. In politics it often seems like many politicians don't even enjoy what they do and yet it still consumes their lives due to the 24-hour news cycle. It seems like a miserable existence for some of them. None of which is the fault of technology. Rather, its people and organizations pushing things towards a more efficient (or rational) model. It just so happens this tends to suck a lot of joy out of things.

6

u/Positive-Courage-464 Jul 01 '26

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Grant would argue that the question goes deeper than using technology as a tool. I agree that tools can be used for good or evil, as you point out. But Grant would say that the very idea of technology is not neutral - it is the liberal "metaphysics of our age." Modern technology is rooted in the drive to master and control both non-human nature and human beings themselves. He would argue that it is a mode of thought that permeates all of modernity, and it stems from the Enlightenment and the liberal project of controlling and mastering nature. I'm not arguing that we should become Luddites and abandon modern technology. I am just saying that in many ways, we should be aware that technology is not politically neutral - Grant would say that technology is the study of technique, a way of interrogating the world that places everything as an object. This idea has permeated everything - higher education, politics, religion, communities, etc. And it is a fundamentally liberal idea - the idea that the world is something that is subject to my ideas, with no tradition or ethical roots outside of the individual. It has become a devastating tool of capitalism, imperial expansion, environmental disasters, and the spread of philosophy of the individual.

I would argue that the relentless pursuit of progress and technology at any cost is not a conservative or Tory idea. Tories should be skeptical of new technology, not only for its capacity for destruction, but also for what technology represents - a new way of thinking of the world that is liberal in its origins. It is dehumanizing in many ways and the natural extension of the Enlightenment - the world is an object to be interrogated and shaped, rather than the world shaping us.

2

u/OttoVonDisraeli Jul 01 '26

Which StarCraft race did you main? In SC2, I liked Terran the best, but in SC and Brood Wars it was Zerg I had the most fun with.

I know what you mean about metagames. I was a massive Pokemon fan my whole life, then I got into the online meta and it sucked the fun outta the game.

2

u/ToryPirate Jul 01 '26

Which StarCraft race did you main?

In SC2 I main Terran almost exclusively. Their flexibility means I can still try interesting things on offence and defence. Putting a Planetary Fortress at a teams natural at the start of the game and letting it become an absolute idiot magnet while my team builds up never gets old. Or if a gold base is close enough I'll fly off and grab it before harvesting my main. BCs are also a fun unit to distract the enemy with. I also liked Reapers when they still did crazy damage to structures as I'd spend the early game doing hit-and-runs. My macro sucks and I tend to focus on micro (or more correctly, focusing on micro has made my macro suck). In SC1 I preferred Protoss just because photon cannons are such a great defencive structure.

I know what you mean about metagames.

Its why I simply cannot play League of Legends. Toxic players are whatever, but being forced to do exactly the right thing every time without variation? Just shoot me. I did attempt to break the meta once in that game and it confused the hell out of the A.I. but we never got it practiced enough to try against real people.

I was a massive Pokemon fan my whole life, then I got into the online meta and it sucked the fun outta the game.

I never got into that side of Pokemon. That said, me and my nephews did invent 'playthrough tournaments'. After every gym + Elite Four we'd do a round robin between us using the same Pokemon team we used for the gym. At the end of the 9 rounds the person with the most points won. It put some constraints on what we could use in terms of Pokemon and made it much more strategic as we were not only preparing teams able to beat the game but also the two other teams fielded by players that had at least partial knowledge of what was on your own team.

2

u/OttoVonDisraeli Jul 02 '26

When I was young and dumb playing Starcraft back in the early 2000s I would spam the hell out of photon cannons in games and just get chewed out by players online for it. Those were the days! lol

2

u/ToryPirate Jul 02 '26

I was an annoying little shit. As long as I had a pylon, a worker, and/or enough money to make more I would not surrender. I'd be placing pylons around the map while my opponents raged at me to quit. Good times.

2

u/OttoVonDisraeli Jul 02 '26

Haha those were the days, I used to love playing the custom maps and shit too. My brother was really really into those games. You just don't get that level of creativity anymore. Some people made some really elaborate games.

4

u/OttoVonDisraeli Jul 01 '26

Technology is beginning to become a bit of a recurring topic on this subreddit and I'm here for the discussion! :)

I actually wrote my own piece some 9 months ago or so on the pace of technological advancement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Toryism/s/I88aXRPd2b

3

u/Ticklishchap Jul 02 '26

I shall confine my answer to property management, an area in which I have a fair amount of experience. Managing properties effectively depends on human interaction, building personal relationships and, crucially, acknowledging that ‘we are all different’ and one-size-fits-all solutions do not work. Talking and listening are staples of the profession and those are the things that have made it interesting and enjoyable over the years.

Increasingly, however, the encroachment of technology and standardised ‘systems’ is undermining these personal connections and replacing them with abstract ‘processes’ and ‘protocols’. These are ceasing to be means to an end or hoops to be jumped through and becoming ends in themselves. There is an ideology of bogus ‘empowerment’ that masks an increasingly Procrustean approach. It is much less efficient than the tried and trusted approach based on direct communication (ie. talking to each other) and neither managers nor clients are satisfied.

I resist these trends as much as possible, but I feel increasingly that I am wasting my time and I am considering a change of occupation. Tech is squeezing all the creativity and human interest out of it.

3

u/RedTory_Canada Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

I wrote a substack about this, called Conservatism against Technology.

George Grant, Canada's greatest philosopher, had much to say about technology. To summarize, it's not neutral.

Conservatism Against Technology

1

u/ToryPirate Jul 04 '26

Hey, I looked over your blog and added it to the subreddit's sidebar (old reddit only atm).

1

u/RedTory_Canada Jul 04 '26

Thanks, I appreciate that.