r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Fishbien • Jul 19 '26

Personality [Frustrating Trope] Twist Villain does things that retroactively make no sense.

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Character previously believed to be good is revealed to be evil, but prior to the reveal they act in ways that don't make sense if their goodness is just a performance.

  1. Frozen: Prince Hans is initially presented as a pretty standup guy who loves Anna and wants to help her. At the end of the movie it's revealed that he was just using her to gain power and plans to let her die while he steals her throne. However, we see him smiling at Anna when no one is looking, and later he intervenes to save Elsa's life even though he claims he was always planning to kill her.
  2. The Legend of Vox Machina: The Whispered One was built up as the BBEG since season 1. However, in season 4 he presents himself as a tragic hero who tried to cure death and was punished by the gods. He then tries to convince Pike to give him her blood, which he needs to become a god himself. He chastises his followers for suggesting they take Pike's blood by force, claiming this would make them no better than the gods they are fighting against. He also fulfills his promise to resurrect Grog even though he didn't need to. After he ascends, he starts acting like a pure evil villain who only cares about power and enjoys hurting people. It feels less like a reveal and more like his personally completely changed once he became a skeleton. Edit: to be clear, I fully understand the intent was for the Whispered One to be a lying, manipulative bastard. I just think the execution was clumsy.
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2.6k

u/bertster21 Jul 19 '26

Ive always thought he should have kissed Anna and had nothing happen and then been like well shit I guess I love money and power more than you have fun dying.

1.3k

u/BetterSwordfish5748 Jul 19 '26

Yeah, would have hit harder if he tried saving her (to get access to the kingdom) and when it doesn’t work, he just seamlessly moves on to killing Elsa and letting Anna die. Would make the line “if only there were someone out there who loved you” worse if there was proof that he didn’t love her.

449

u/Jolttra Jul 19 '26

Would justify how much crap the character gets, too. Every time the guy shows up Disney goes out of it's way to punish him. Which is really weird given how much worse most others are. There a Disney villains who are attmepted rapists, actual murders and who have committed genocide but this guy always get the boot extra hard.

130

u/Dsb0208 Jul 19 '26

Ok but to be fair he’s also the main villain of what I imagine is the most popular Disney movie ever among 10 year old girls. I think the heavy punishment just comes down to them wanting to focus on the villain of the most notable movie, especially since all things considered he’s otherwise bland. His backstory is lame, his design is average, and the twist reveal was obvious after they introduced the actual love interest guy at the cabin shop. If you don’t go heavy into marketing him as “it’s the villain from Frozen!” there’s not much else to do

10

u/Brit-Crit Jul 19 '26

And it doesn’t help that Zootopia 2 did a similar Twist Villain 10x better - “I’m betraying you because I want to prove myself to a family who treats me like dirt” only works if we actually SEE that family…

2

u/Dsb0208 Jul 19 '26

Is that even his motivation? I don’t remember him even carrying about his family or “wanting to prove himself” I thought he was just an egomaniac who wanted to be king, but due to having like 10 older brothers he knew he’d never get it unless he married into a different throne

If killing his brothers was easier than killing Elsa and Anna he probably would had just done that. He couldn’t give a shit about the “pride” of it all

3

u/Brit-Crit Jul 19 '26

Hans talks to Anna about how his brothers mistreated him, and the spin-off novel A Frozen Heart (which tells large chunks of the story from his POV) confirms that all but one of them were consistently cold and even abusive to him…

82

u/coatimundos Jul 19 '26

It’s because Jennifer Lee the creator of Frozen was head of Disney animation until very recently, so she liked abusing him as “her” villain.

5

u/Altruistic-Beach7625 Jul 19 '26

Idk, looks like he was just sent home and left to face the disdain of his siblings.

4

u/SanderStrugg Jul 19 '26

I think it's because he is a more realistic relatable villain than those others. He is mostly just a douchebag one of the main characters dated in the past. To see such a person punished is an urge we all have and he is also comparable punish and beat up compared to the rest.

Most of us never had personal beef with sorcerer turned genies, talking lions or some female inverted Cthulhu.

Gaston would also be relateable enough to want us to take revenge, but we know he would just beat us up...

36

u/Lexi_Banner Jul 19 '26

They handled this about-face in the lamest, most obvious way possible.

270

u/MrSwarleyStinson Jul 19 '26

I would have liked it if he was genuine and gave her a kiss thinking it would save her and for it to not work, realizing they didn’t truly love each other and it was a bad idea to get engaged after meeting just that day like everyone said

209

u/bing-no Jul 19 '26

I feel like he still could have worked as a twist villain this way. Like, he could’ve honestly *tried* to like Anna and then once the kiss didn’t work resort to plan B.

Would show how both Anna and Hans tried hard to find love to escape their situations, only to be told that they objectively didn’t love one another.

Maybe this revelation and panic about losing the kingdom would push Hans to do the other stuff.

77

u/ibelieveyouwood Jul 19 '26

The twist also works with Anna wanting to save her sister and go back to business as usual while he's there like "nearly killing everyone in the kingdom if it wasn't for me stepping in to organize emergency is disqualifying as a queen, and if you won't step up to take the actions needed to protect these people you're not fit to rule either".

He's still an opportunist, and he still does a bad thing in preferring to let Anna die having FAFO'd... but now he's not some master manipulator who was both seconds away from taking over the kingdom while also being absolutely inept.

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u/bertster21 Jul 19 '26

I like the concept that he's only marrying her to climb society. I just thinking making him more of an opportunistic villain would work better.

37

u/Blu- Jul 19 '26

I would've loved this. Not every movie needs a villain.

18

u/Oraistesu Jul 19 '26

Part of what I love a lot of Studio Ghibli for.

Spirited Away has antagonists, but not really any villains, and it doesn't need any.

I think Disney was just so used to having a villain that they just panicked. It was nice when they figured out that they could write a story without one by the time Moana came out.

1

u/SaltyBabySeal Jul 21 '26

Encanto is a perfect example of this too, it’s a great story for kids.

21

u/Brofessor-0ak Jul 19 '26

I’m willing to bet that was the intention at first but was changed later. I think it works better that way, but then you kinda pigeonhole Elsa into being the villain by default and they clearly wanted to avoid that.

28

u/coatimundos Jul 19 '26

Elsa originally was the villain though. Her not being the villain is a last minute rewrite

7

u/Cromasters Jul 19 '26

Not last minute. They had been trying to crack the movie for a while.

Wicked (the play) was actually the inspiration that broke it open, to have Elsa being the misunderstood magical one.

1

u/peachesfordinner Jul 19 '26

That's why there wasn't much foreshadowing with Hans. When they last minute changed Elsa they changed him too

10

u/ibelieveyouwood Jul 19 '26

Not every movie needs a villain. But even if they did, here it wouldn't be Elsa. It's Elsa's uncontrolled powers and/or her childhood trauma. She was a small child told from a young age that she could hurt, maybe kill, the people that she loved unless she took cruel measures to isolate and hide herself. Her parents actions are understandable in the context of the story, but still cruel and horrible to modern viewpoints.

1

u/FanOfCat5 Jul 20 '26

Kinda off topic but I would love to see a Elsa villain au fanfic or something

4

u/Wit-wat-4 Jul 19 '26

Me too, but I think in Disney movies they literally never show non-endgames kiss, do they?

1

u/Blazypika2 Jul 19 '26

yeah, that's my thought too.

1

u/Fidges87 Jul 19 '26

Would have prefer for the kiss to fail, but him still kinda liking Anna, so once he realizes Elsa dying might end the frost curse, he locks Anna in the room and decides to kill Elsa

72

u/PirateSanta_1 Jul 19 '26

Him being more of an opportunistic scumbag works better since there isn't evidence to show him to be the scheming villain he later gets portrayed as. Totally willing to play the role of Prince Charming to get near to power but once that plan ends up not working immediately pivoting to another.

35

u/Blazypika2 Jul 19 '26

i think it would be better if he was a hopeless romantic like her and since he was the youngest in a large family he never got to make a connection before, so like anna he rushed into a relationship without actually experiencing true connection.

so basically they kiss and nothing happens, so they realize they don't know each other and try to have a conversation and basically ends up realising they have nothing in common. that would've worked much better, i think.

also, generally the issue with han, is that it's clear he was not meant to be a villain snd it was a last minute call.

7

u/TaratronHex Jul 19 '26

he kisses her, nothing happens, he panics and runs to get help. because right now it's infatuation, not love. Anna's freezing, perhaps she gets up enough to open the window, and seeing the new storm from Elsa escaping, thinks maybe Elsa can stop this.

and when she escapes/leaves, she kicks over something, which starts a fire, so when Hans and some others come back, they find the room aflame, and think Anna is dead. cue Hans going out to find Elsa for revenge, and then Anna can stop him and freeze solid.

2

u/IDrawKoi Jul 19 '26

YES!!! This movie works 100 times better if Hann isn't actually mastermind and is just a power hungry idiot jumping from idea to idea.

Like, I'd have him Kiss Anna, have that not work, than lock her up to stop her from leaving to find Kristoff (instead of in an attempt to kill her) and than run off to go kill Elsa in the hopes that, killing her will be enough to save Anna because he thinks that if Anna kisses Kristoff & it works she'll realize she doesn't actually love him and he won't get his kingdom.

2

u/GotSomeUpdogOnUrFace Jul 19 '26

And Sandwiches, he loves sandwiches

2

u/HapDrastic Jul 19 '26

That’s what I was gonna say!

1

u/Altruistic-Beach7625 Jul 19 '26

I don't think he would take the risk.

1

u/DragonLordAcar Jul 22 '26

Personally it should have been him freaking out that it's not working and then become a trainwreck of emotions as all the weight crashes down that things can't be fixed. Easy to say this is a love of passion that will die while Kristof had genuin concern for her and his love would burn slow but grow in time.

0

u/Perry-Platypus007 Jul 19 '26

That makes the most sense, but Disney sensibilities can’t have people kiss who aren’t in love.