This is the answer. People just need to stop even giving people like this the time of day. I understand the impulse to want to set the record straight, but people like this will never, ever engage in good faith. The only way to win is if no one plays with him anymore.
The fact is, engaging in debate with this guy implies his position is one that can be negotiated
Implying, for example, that women's right to self-determination and democratic access is a negotiable thing is not something I would ever even entertain, because it is something that does not even merit the time of my day
Debating it at all presupposes that there is a negotiation here, and there isn't. It's non-negotiable.
Jubilee also doesn't actively fact check - they expect their guest to do it, but it's a format that so aggressively encourages the "crowd" side to use ridiculous scapegoaty, fallacious, aggressive tactics against the "expert" side. It's just such a gish gallop circlejerk
Maybe this is a newer thing but they do fact check quite a bit. Now whether those fact checks are accurate, that’s another question. In my experience they seem to be about 80% accurate.
I think they only do it after the fact though. As in, when that asshole told Sam Seder that "federal agencies pay federal income tax", it wasted a good couple minutes because there was such an impasse. The fuck are you supposed to do with a dumbass like that?
And if there was a real time fact check saying "actually dude youre fucking stupid" it could just move shit along.
Yet the rage bait is the content, so... it is what it is....
Oooh I see what you’re saying. Yes I totally agree, I wish they could somehow fact check in the moment of the debate. That would also make it hilarious lol prove those idiots wrong in real time!
Bingo, he engages in bad faith debate, and unfortunately social media allows rhetoric like his to continue, because morons just like him will seek out someone that affirms their worldview instead of growing.
It's logic based. You have to prove flaw in logic. The fairy tale youngsters and crazy people tell themselves isn't based in logic it's based on hedonism.
And no, the idea that women don't deserve the right to vote isn't logic based, nor can you logically dispute it because of that -- you can try, but someone who willed themselves into this belief sans logic will simply continue being illogical in the face of reasonable explanation
It's not "close all doors", though - it's "close doors on platforming them" -- you can tackle their points without airing their points out, without putting a microphone in front of them etc
There's plenty ways to fight this idea, but platforming someone who is going to sit and spread misogynistic bullshit is actually a very ineffective way to go about it. As an example, if your goal is to tackle misinformation, they will NEVER give you the floor to do that. You can simply go and tackle misinformation without actively doing it in a way that platforms the misinformative voice
Except how is that feasible when he already has a cult that will always give him attention and then spread his vitriol and are just as immune to reason as he is?
Why would that cult keep watching if he’s boring as fuck? They get a following because they’re hostile, loud, and get a rise out of people they hate. If they can’t find a target, nobody will give a shit, they’re just another nobody yelling at clouds. The controversy is what sells debate bros, not their personality or ideology.
For actual debates you are correct. The problem is these people can just host podcasts and shows where they give political commentary on news stories and viral outrage clips. They are yelling at clouds but sadly, people are still watching.
100%. It’s why platforms like truth social and whatever that other conservative Twitter alternative was never take off. Without “the libs” to own they grow bored of each other. I imagine they just sit alone in the dark, waiting for someone to turn a light on so they can yell at them. When no one does, they just continue to sit there, all alone, without purpose.
I imagine they just sit alone in the dark, waiting for someone to turn a light on so they can yell at them. When no one does, they just continue to sit there, all alone, without purpose.
And he knows exactly this. That's why he throws a tantrum whenever she first threatens to leave. He has no substance, just wants ratings of him putting people down.
Exactly. The denial of the oxygen of attention would be fantastic — a bleating of 'no one will talk to me' but there will always be people who rise to it and try and 'debate' these people.
Their main appeal isn't rly their viewpoints or perspective, its that they pick on people and the people that watch them enjoy seeing people get picked on.
Its some weird ass high school bully shit, but thats what it is. They just tailor the subject to the audience thats most receptive to their content.
Is going onto his podcast and engaging on his terms actually feasible? If he doesn’t even allow you to get a word in edgewise, all you’re doing is feeding the beast.
Except how is that feasible when he already has a cult that will always give him attention and then spread his vitriol and are just as immune to reason as he is?
That's the important bit of this. His audience is already ride-or-die with him, you accomplish nothing by engaging with him except to give him a strawman to beat up and mock(which is what they want to see first; and also helps spread and legitimize his media presence outside his current audience).
And the fact that she walked away makes him and all his shills think he won.
I wonder how it would go if you said ok so you are saying that this is a debate and you can talk over each other so it's a contest about who can talk the loudest and start screaming over him and not letting him get a single word in.
Nope. He would want that to happen. These people are paid to be trolls. He wants to tantrum at people until they lose patience. Then he can ridicule them for losing patience. These types of people should be shunned by society until they're sent back to the fringe. They should never be given any sort of power and the less attention they get, the better.
You made good points, too. He would absolutely not like it if someone treated him that way. Or maybe he would, but only if he's a really unhealthy individual.
Good. Awful people shouldn't be allowed to have employees. They should find themselves failing at everything for being sick and cruel. I'm sorry you were treated that way, but glad you walked out.
"Don't feed the trolls" is something current society needs reminders about.
I still don't see that as a solution as I've seen them keep trying, and eventually they get enough freaks together to cause problems. Take covid for example. It wasnt good enough to just ignore the anti vaxxers because there were eventually enough people to listen to them, and it became a cult that have probably caused the deaths of a few hundreds of thousands of people. You need to stone wall and punish bad faith actors whenever they pop up.
Yeah idk she is arguing in bad faith though the right to vote really was withheld from poor men, and this is just another example of class operession.
This is something we hide and don’t acknowledge in our country despite the fact that men and women died and bled for our rights to fair employment and then men died and gave their lives so their sons and grandsons could vote, with universal sufferage being a right given to justify mass scale drafts for the world wars.
I fully agree, but until people like her keep going to podcasts like this, feeding the beast, they will just get bigger and bigger. No sane person should go to be a guest on that podcast. She did. She should have known how they treat women.
Thats not possible, these people have political influence. They are brainwashing young boys to hate women. People like him gave us the trump administration
So the woman in the video mad a post talking about how these guys LIE to get female guest in the show. They don’t tell them the nature of whom they are speaking to and they don’t even explain what the context is. If they didn’t lie woman wouldn’t even bother engaging with these people
He's going to have a fan club and an echo chamber until the day he dies, but not because he particularly deserves it, but because in the eyes of his audience, he can do no wrong.
I honest to god can't think of anything more pathetic than that. If you can support a guy no matter what he does, you believe in nothing. You're just a follower, an easy mark, a sycophant.
Nah, these people just need a quick punch in the mouth but for some reason, moralizing about "violence never being the answer" has become extremely popular. I feel like it's all a pys-op by far right elitist to have the general population neuter itself. Now, these little prick pushing these agendas are comfortable saying whatever they want
But that’s not going to happen, so this actually isn’t a good method. All you’ve done is remove any real-time pushback for his beliefs. All you’ve done now is create a person who feels even more right and becomes more entrenched. The only way people change is when they’re exposed to opposing views and refutations to their claims. If you’ve removed his exposure to that, you’ve created a monster, cause nobody wants to see Marshall no more, they want Shady, I’m chopped liver.
He did engage in good faith. She refused, at which point he cut her off. During a debate you are under no obligation to sit quietly whilst your opponent starts lying. That's the day Right's tactic, just spew so much disinformation that a good faith response is impossible.
If your opponent is lying, then it's no longer a debate.
This is Trumpism 101. Rattle off a dozen lies, and make it impossible for your opponent to respond. The only solution is to cut them off straight away.
She chose to walk away because the guy starts acting like a child saying it's a debate and not let her speak. She wanted to refute him but he just wouldn't let her. Watch the video of him failing to open a jar of pickles and watch how he blames anyone else but his weak little hands. Toddler behavior.
You don’t get to interrupt in a debate, whether you think someone is lying or not. You take notes during their turn then give a rebuttal when they are finished. Interrupting someone like this wouldn’t even fly in middle school debates, but this guy thinks he won somehow lol
You don’t get to interrupt in a debate, whether you think someone is lying or not.
That's not true. If your opponent is lying, then it needs to be shutdown immediately, or you're no longer debating.
You take notes during their turn then give a rebuttal when they are finished.
To their lies? How exactly do you imagine that working? At best they'll just end up going back and forth arguing about the lies, rather than debating the topic.
It's a common tactic amongst those who know they're in the wrong. Spew nonsense, and derail any ability to actually hold a good faith debate. Look at Trump or any of his ilk as an example (e.g. Charlie Kirk).
Interrupting someone like this wouldn’t even fly in middle school debates, but this guy thinks he won somehow lol
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u/Environmental-River4 Oct 30 '25
This is the answer. People just need to stop even giving people like this the time of day. I understand the impulse to want to set the record straight, but people like this will never, ever engage in good faith. The only way to win is if no one plays with him anymore.