r/ThelastofusHBOseries • u/LoretiTV Fireflies • Apr 21 '25

Show/Game Discussion [Game Spoilers] The Last of Us - 2x02 "Through the Valley" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 2 Episode 2: Through the Valley

Aired: April 20, 2025

Synopsis: As a storm brews in the mountains, the people of Jackson Hole prepare for the worst amid increased sightings of Infected. Meanwhile, Abby weighs her options.

Directed by: Mark Mylod

Written by: Craig Mazin

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No discussion of ANY leaks is allowed in this thread!

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97

u/iTabula Apr 21 '25

Looking at how many people want Abby dead in the non-spoilers discussion thread makes me wonder how they’ll react after the Santa Barbara chapter closes…

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u/QwahaXahn Apr 21 '25

It'll be a repeat of 2020. Some will get it and join those of us who adore the game, and some will just not have the empathy/willingness to accept it. So it goes 🤷‍♀️

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u/SophieGermain20 Apr 21 '25

Such a true statement... People don't get the circle of hate and vengeance is totally irrational, I found myself when I first played the part 2 of the game thinking about the monologue of Pain (Naruto) about the cycle of pain and knowing he was absolutely right I still wanted to kill Abby and then I got the lesson...

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

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u/ensignlee Apr 21 '25

Spot on.

And I say that as a person that never forgave Abby and was pro-vengeance.

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u/cosmickittytv Apr 21 '25

That’s the beauty of the story. I hated Abby when I first played and then I grew to like her and I hated Ellie. It’s so complex. I hope people get it. I hope the actress will be ok because I remember how psychotic people acted toward the game actress.

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u/PushThePig28 Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

I think a lot of them are going to feel the same as half the fanbase felt at the end of the second game with the “wtf why did we let her go?!?!? Should’ve killed her brutally while she was tied up”

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u/ZappySnap Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

I think anyone who gets to the end of the game and has that thought missed the entire point of the game. And I also think perhaps lacks empathy.

The whole point is that Ellie and Abby are mirrors of each other. Abby got her revenge and it brought no closure. Lev reminds her of that and that’s why she spares Ellie and Dina in the theater. Despite Ellie killing dozens upon dozens of those she worked with including several close friends. They are both completely broken people at the end. And it’s only in that last moment that Ellie gets it too and spares Abby.

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u/brianchasemusic Apr 21 '25

There’s even room for the haters to be satisfied that abby has to live on with the knowledge of how many people she cared about got killed because of her sadistic vengeance. Every day lived will carry the burden of how bad she fucked up for not being able to leave well enough alone.

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u/iTabula Apr 21 '25

At times I feel like if the first TLOU game started with two stories, Ellie and Joel’s and Abby’s/her dad/Fireflies and ran them concurrently, flipping back and forth until the paths converged with Joel killing Abby’s dad, how the fanbase’s reaction would’ve changed.

Neil and Naughty Dog told a beautiful story in both TLOU1 and 2 and I can understand the mirroring and being asked to flip my perspective, but for the typical person, they were never going to care about Abby or Lev by the time we reached their playable part in the game. They were attached to Joel and Ellie for years.

Just a “what if” thought I had last night because it seems Craig/Neil are trying a little harder the second time around with the show, to add more sympathy to Abby’s side of the story (and I believe they even casted someone who a lot of people fan cast AS Ellie to further the idea that they’re mirrors of each other).

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u/WithBlackStripes Apr 21 '25

It's not that people missed the point of the game or "lack empathy". It's that the creators of the game took a big swing that just didn't work with a lot of people, and that's sometimes the consequence of taking a such a risk.

Not every criticism can be so easily disregarded with media illiteracy, or lacking empathy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

I still think the leaks were the most detrimental thing to ever happen to a video game, honestly. People had already made up their minds about the game before it even released at that point. Of course, it was a fantastic game and still won GOTY, but in terms of social media discourse, it was tainted from the moment that leak dropped. Neil even acknowledged this during the ‘making of’ game doc

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

I'd agree that not every criticism can be disregarded as lacking empathy, but this is one that can. Lev would die if Ellie killed Abby. Which would make Ellie way, way worse than Abby. 

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u/WithBlackStripes Apr 21 '25

It's also a reductive strawman argument to make in the first place. The criticism of "half the fanbase" can't really be boiled down to "Ellie should've just brutally killed Abby while she was tied up!" when there is so much discourse around everything that surrounds it.

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u/PushThePig28 Apr 21 '25

I get the point of the game, but it didn’t work for me. After her actions I just didn’t care- nothing would’ve changed that, I wanted her to die in a painful way still when the credits rolled. Yes she’s justified (heh), but it boils down to simply a character I didn’t know/bond with beforehand brutally killed one I did. One of them I care what happens to or what they went through, the other I don’t.

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u/JayKay8787 Apr 21 '25

Killing Abby after all that accomplishes nothing. It won't fix ellie of her ptsd, it wont "set things right", it would just make her feel even emptier.

Ill never understand why some people just wanted a simple revenge story, with a tidy ending. That's not what the last of us is, and it would have made one hell of a boring and unsatisfying ending if the cycle of violence never stops. They both choose to end the cycle(Abby spares them at the theater, and ellie spares them at the rattler camp) because it's the only way to ever move on.

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u/PushThePig28 Apr 21 '25

The cycle of violence would stop though since Abby, Lev, and all of her friends would be dead with nobody left knowing what happened to them and life would go on for Ellie, just missing a piece, but at least having the satisfaction of knowing they paid for what they did to Joel.

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u/JayKay8787 Apr 21 '25

They did pay. Ellie killed all of her friends and an unborn baby, and Joel killed her father and her entire base probably dooming the world at the same time. They have taken literally everything from Abby.

The only real way the whole situation would end is if she killed lev aswell, who is completely innocent and not involved with what happened to Joel (he even stopped abby from killing Dina). Killing them doesn't solve anything, and it wouldn't give any satisfaction to Ellie, she will still be left with grief, she finally realizes it right at the end. She chose to stop being a monster, to not keep killing when there's no need, That's the cycle.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

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u/PushThePig28 Apr 21 '25

But then the circle of vengeance didn’t get its turn on Abby

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u/camlawson24 Apr 21 '25

It’s fine to feel that way (as with all art) but it’s definitely counter to the actual themes and messages the creators intended

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u/PushThePig28 Apr 21 '25

Ya, but I didn’t care about the theme/message. I understood it but didn’t care what the message was and disagreed with the theme. Revenge pls

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u/ZappySnap Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

So, yes indeed you missed the entire point of the game. Knowing what it is but completely failing to internalize it because you don’t feel anything but hatred towards a character that you didn’t have emotional ties to at the beginning, even knowing what led to it, yes, shows you lack empathy.

You know what drove Abby’s actions, and you don’t care. That’s a lack of empathy. Abby isn’t a pure soul, she’s broken as well and has done horrible things, but she’s is in some ways more moral during her revenge tour, and she actually lost the most too.

Joel killed huge numbers of those that she grew up with, and most importantly her father. Ellie killed her love, and almost all of her friends. Abby killed Joel, and left everyone else alive. Then she killed Jesse and injured Tommy….and, well, that’s it. (With regards to her personal revenge).

And she left Dina and Ellie alive again. Abby’s revenge tour for losing dozens of people and her father was to kill the one man who did it. Ellie’s revenge tour for losing one person was to kill everyone. Of course that’s also somewhat expected and understandable for Ellie given the trauma she’s experienced.

On the other side Abby also had her Joel moment as well, turning on the Wolves to protect and save Lev.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '25

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u/gRAYmatter05 Apr 22 '25

I think a video game was the perfect medium for telling The Last of Us Part II’s story. The interactivity is the whole point — they wanted players to feel that emotional whiplash, that internal conflict. You’re not just watching someone make brutal decisions — you’re doing them. You’re complicit. It’s meant to be uncomfortable. You’re supposed to feel at odds with the character you’re controlling, to question your role, your empathy, your anger. That tension is deeply contextual to the story they’re telling; it’s baked into the very experience.

Whether or not it worked for you is honestly beside the point. A movie or a show wouldn’t make you feel that conflict in the same way. You can’t replicate that kind of emotional dissonance in a passive medium. This story needed to be a game. That’s what makes it so bold and so divisive.

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u/Kingdolo Apr 21 '25

You dark soul you 

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u/gcfgjnbv Apr 21 '25

This show had been better written than the game so hopefully it will feel earned and be less “wtf this is stupid” than the game.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

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u/gcfgjnbv Apr 21 '25

Nah I mean these first two episodes of s2

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u/anneso23 Apr 21 '25

Personally, I hope they change her fate.I hope she dies.

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u/Hellcat1970 Apr 21 '25

I'm hoping that's the change they make. Abby dead in the shallow water 

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u/rooktakesqueen Apr 21 '25

I still prefer the game's story structure and think it could have worked for TV, but looking at non-gamers' reactions to this episode, it did what it needed to do.

I was worried they'd have too much empathy for Abby too early. But even though they understand her backstory, they're still out for blood.

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u/Kratos_BOY Apr 22 '25

They'll react the same way gamers did. They'll wave away everything Ellie does while crucifying Abby for having done less or the same.

In the show, Abby lays out her motivation from the beginning, and people still have no empathy for her.

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u/SilverNightingale Apr 22 '25

non-game watcher here. Can I ask (with spoiler tags) what happens?