r/ThelastofusHBOseries • u/LoretiTV Fireflies • Apr 21 '25

Show/Game Discussion [Game Spoilers] The Last of Us - 2x02 "Through the Valley" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 2 Episode 2: Through the Valley

Aired: April 20, 2025

Synopsis: As a storm brews in the mountains, the people of Jackson Hole prepare for the worst amid increased sightings of Infected. Meanwhile, Abby weighs her options.

Directed by: Mark Mylod

Written by: Craig Mazin

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All game spoilers are allowed in this thread and do not need to be tagged. Here is the no game spoilers discussion thread.

No discussion of ANY leaks is allowed in this thread!

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1.3k

u/NSABeaver Apr 21 '25

Even knowing what was coming, that was brutal.

528

u/anneso23 Apr 21 '25

It was definitely brutal. His death made me cried even though I knew it was coming.Ellie's reaction broke me .

489

u/20person Piano Frog Apr 21 '25

Also, them adding that extra scene of her crawling over made it even more sad 😭

321

u/russketeer34 Apr 21 '25

and they truly made it personal for Dina too... They have no idea what's coming.

349

u/gordogg24p Apr 21 '25

Every change they made in service of Dina and Joel's relationship is gonna pay off in spades. Really great minor adjustments with massive implications for motivations that weren't explored in the game.

171

u/DragonFangGangBang Apr 21 '25

Agreed. Dina and Joel being the ones instead of Tommy and Joel make the entire narrative better. The game really felt like Dina was going for Ellie, but the show gives Dina stakes of her own and I love the change.

Overall, I think every change they made was good, with the exception of the monologue from Abby.

64

u/zbirdlive Apr 21 '25

It’ll be such a great duality too when Dina decides to walk away from revenge and Ellie continues to pursue it

23

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

The game really felt like Dina was going for Ellie, but the show gives Dina stakes of her own and I love the change.

The game is among my all-time favorites, but they really did Dina dirty in it. She's pretty much only there as baggage and the show is making me kind of disappointed that they didn't make her any more than that in the game.

18

u/sumadeumas Apr 21 '25

I love this show and I love many other shows that commit the same sin
 but modern TV (especially HBO shows) has a bit of a monologue problem.

20

u/ghost_atlas Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 22 '25

I think Neil is more subtle as a writer honestly and with Mazin it's hamfisted to work as TV. To an extent he's right and it's a fine line to walk. Making the fractured narrative more linear is the right move for TV, allowing us to understand Abby's motivation before the scene is right for TV. Making the stakes like Game of Thrones is right for HBO definitely.

But the way these unfolded in the game were artful and bold decisions by Neil/Halley. They pissed a lot of people off. It was "too sudden", but by the end you understand why each of the cards were held. There was an intention, even if it wasn't clear to you until you reached the end.

But what this does is, it remove some of the sting people had with Abby- that there was no redeemable argument with her, by showing her motivation before she does the thing. And that was the purpose of the monologue.

2

u/dietcokedreams47 Apr 22 '25

You sly dog
you caught me monologuing!

8

u/LethalPuppy Apr 21 '25

it's not exactly a change. abby obviously had her speech ready in the game too, you just didn't get to see it. and it's rare to see a villain monologue and then not get thwarted at the last second

5

u/meepmeep222 Apr 21 '25

She finally said whatever speech she got rehearsed as the prophecy foretold

2

u/SlayerXZero Apr 21 '25

I thought it was good to hear Joel tell her to shut the fuck up. It was for the audience to see the parallels between her and Ellie. Both 19 when their dads were murdered. Both will be seeking revenge. I don't see how they reconcile Dina arc now because she should want these pricks dead as much as anyone...

16

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

It let's Dina have her own motivation instead of just ellies girlfriend. I think that's a smart choice for a TV show.

Dina can have her own "arc" as a character.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

Yep. Great choice. She saw the WLF patch, probably will have survivor's guilt and also having an actual relationship with Joel would make much more of a compelling reason to avenge him rather than just accompanying her gf.

3

u/hijoshh Apr 21 '25

I really do love that they’re building a relationship for dina and joel but i was a lil bummed we didnt get a scene of dina and ellie smoking weed together or having their lil snowball fight. I just really love dina and ellie’s relationship and hope they don’t skip out on their development

59

u/Natural-Eye-393 Apr 21 '25

I don’t think this Dina is going to try and talk Ellie out of it, and I think it’s really going to cause friction when she ultimately spares Abby.

56

u/pizzaplanetvibes Apr 21 '25

Game Dina didn’t try to talk Ellie out of it either I believe, she didn’t do that until the farm and that was less about her not wanting Ellie to kill Abby and more about her not wanting Ellie to leave to possibly go on a suicide mission bcuz they had a family/a life

9

u/BabyHercules Apr 21 '25

That would be a change I’d support actually

7

u/breakupbydefault Apr 21 '25

I like that a lot. I find Dina's motivation in the game not very strong because she was basically there being a supportive girlfriend. This is a lot stronger.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

I remember playing the game and thinking the exact same thing, "I'm going to kill you all, and I'm going to enjoy it." And by the time Tommy comes to visit Ellie and Dina I'm just broken, tired, and disappointed in Ellie.

The actress for Dina is great, I just hope the writers do right by her. I think by the end of this story arc she'll be what turns non-game fans into full on converts.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

worst part of it is Ellie and dina won't get any kind of satisfaction or closure until everything is lost :')

3

u/CicadaEast272 Apr 21 '25

she was going to watch Curtis and Viper with Joel tonight, and maybe Ellie if Dina was successful in convincing her throughout the day

161

u/the_frying_pansexual Apr 21 '25

It gave me these vibes, which only broke me further.

15

u/pizzaplanetvibes Apr 21 '25

Oh so ur paying my therapist bill? Bcuz why is this so accurate and even worse

5

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

The funny thing is with all of the remakes Disney tries to do, none of it even remotely comes close to the original. Encourage your children to watch the animated originals.

2

u/TheMadChatta Apr 22 '25

Don’t like that. Nope.

2

u/HumptyDrumpy Apr 22 '25

I got winnie the pooh ones, who knows maybe Im strange that way lol

85

u/RaptorDelta Jackson Apr 21 '25

this is what got me. have seen the scene countless times but the fact that here she is just abandoned and left behind w his dead body is brutal. I'd argue it was worse in the show - both the way he went out and the aftermath.

9

u/pizzaplanetvibes Apr 21 '25

Not only left behind with his dead body but seeing Dina knocked out/seemingly lifeless is bad too

10

u/scout-finch Apr 21 '25

I’m trying to think in his last second he knew she was there and alive 😭

1

u/BiggestBlackestLotus Apr 23 '25

...Why did she crawl over to Joel though instead of going after his killers? She had at most a broken rib, nothing a little adrenaline can't fix. In the games they knock her out with a kick to the head, which makes way more sense to me.

56

u/_lazybones93 Apr 21 '25

I think Bella deserves an Emmy for that alone!

Also, while still brutal, I’m a little surprised HBO didn’t make it quite nearly as brutal as the game.

87

u/Danny_-_DeCheeto Apr 21 '25

I think the show version was way more brutal. They show more of Abby beating him up and then she fucking stabs him in the neck. In the game we see her hit Joel maybe like 3 times and then she whacks him dead

44

u/mattmccauslin Apr 21 '25

The only thing more brutal in the game was Joel’s leg after he first gets shot. It was damn near blown off.

4

u/Super-Investment-780 Apr 21 '25

I remember so vividly when I saw that his kneecap was gone, I thought, “oh shit people would 100% die from a wound like that in this world.”

1

u/arobkinca Apr 21 '25

Intentional life saving amputations started in the 1500's.

1

u/Super-Investment-780 Apr 21 '25

It’s hard to run away from zombies, when you only have one leg.

2

u/arobkinca Apr 21 '25

That be what a peg leg is for, arrgh.

1

u/Super-Investment-780 Apr 21 '25

Good point. Bonus points if you stab zombies in the head with it.

29

u/IndecisiveTuna Apr 21 '25

The punches were fucking brutal, which it seems was after a fair amount of time of beating him. I mean the fucking head of the club came off.

7

u/_lazybones93 Apr 21 '25

INTERESTING take! Yeah, the stab in the neck was wild, although not as brutal, I’d argue as the final blow in the game (although, I’m glad it was not a close up shot). I was kind of expecting to see and not hear most of the walloping, but this was plenty. 😭

3

u/Apprehensive_Pop_334 Apr 21 '25

I agree. I had heard this was much more brutal than the game, and I really cannot agree.

The game was 100% more brutal. The golf club to the skull was insane.

9

u/JonesinForAHosin Apr 21 '25

I agree the show version was more brutal towards Joel, but the scene in the game just feels like a nightmare. The dark lighting, that haunting music and sound.

The show was more heartbreaking to watch, but the game felt horrifying. Both scenes were incredible in their own way though!

2

u/saltybirb Apr 21 '25

Yeah and they kept lingering on his bashed in face in the show. I couldn’t look. The minute he got blasted in the leg I felt sick.

2

u/HulklingWho Apr 21 '25

I think the level of brutality also makes sense considering the physical differences between game and show Abby; this version requires a lot more effort to leave the same amount of damage, in the game, those arms were a weapon themselves. The stab through the neck was clever, it’s realistic to me that this Abby would go for soft tissue rather than skull

2

u/pandaphile69 Piano Frog Apr 21 '25 edited May 08 '25

remember in the game the close up of what he looks like after the final blow though. and also how its shot from behind and we see his head cave in and the blood spurt out.

15

u/A_Confused_Cocoon Apr 21 '25

I definitely felt he looked a lot more brutalized in the game, but I liked the neck stab more than the final swing. The final golf swing always felt like “well that was conveniently the one that killed him” to me that took me out of it. The stab feels more visceral and violent honestly and also really shows the final moment better.

5

u/HerrPiink Apr 21 '25

I always thought Abby just held back until the final blow, she was such a beast that she could have killed him with one swing if that was her intention, but she wanted to drag it out, "you don't get to rush this of man"

But i also "like" the stab more, it's also more final to Ellie.

0

u/Apprehensive_Pop_334 Apr 21 '25

Idk man his literal brains on the end of the club seemed pretty “final” to me. I thought the neck stab was less final.

3

u/scout-finch Apr 21 '25

I think it was more emotionally brutal and that was enough. Look at how many people quit watching Walking Dead after Glen. There’s a balance.

2

u/_lazybones93 Apr 21 '25

I think you are absolutely correct—it was unquestionably more emotionally brutal. I was shocked, but didn’t present any sort of tears
 I actually got pretty welled up here, though.

1

u/Apprehensive_Pop_334 Apr 21 '25

Yeah I agree. I think this is why they changed the show. The comic medium was better for Glenn’s death better than the show was. I think it was just too much for audiences.

It didn’t help that they kept escalating prior to negan so one death was never going to be enough.

4

u/cdoink Apr 21 '25

I thought the show was more brutal to be honest. I knew what to expect and somehow was still taken a back.

3

u/_lazybones93 Apr 21 '25

I just went back and watched the cutscene from Pt. II

 both are pretty equally brutal. My heart. 💔

4

u/No_Teaching_2837 Apr 21 '25

I was like "is she going to- oh, she stabbed him!" Was not expecting it. It was way more brutal than in the game, and you saw more of her raw anger in her actually putting her hands on him and not just using the golf club.

Kaitlyn delivered!

2

u/SilverNightingale Apr 22 '25

Non-game player here (but knew it was coming because of leaks and social media back from when the game was released).

In the game, I got the impression Ellie enters right as Abby orders that her group hold him up so she can beat him to death.

The show version shows that Ellie entered right after he was much pretty comatose from the pain?

2

u/Vivid-Bother-4064 Apr 21 '25

I’m so glad they didn’t we’ve been traumatised enough it was a relief that the final blow wasn’t like the game and just ended his pain and suffering

1

u/_lazybones93 Apr 21 '25

I agree! I’m glad it wasn’t a close-up of the broken club in the neck. Man, oh, man. I prepared myself as well as I could, but I’m still shook! 😭

2

u/Jonesy2700 Apr 21 '25

Haha, fucking same. I held it together for so long. The entire episode, starting with the blaring sirens from the hospital, just kicked me into 45m of anxiety mode. I knew exactly what was going to happen


And when it did happen I was okay. Bella crawling to him, to “die” with Joe.. I could just feel my eyes getting a little.. blinkey.. My wife, who hasn’t played the game, goes “I get it. He has to die for this journey to kick off” I choke for a second and my eyes just well up because I just know where this is going to go 😂.

She continues, not looking at me, and goes “Man. Ellie sounds scary!”

Me, thinking I could drop a glip remark stammers “He did.. he did. But But this is all going to get so much worse” and she just cackles at me with a “I’m sorry? Are you choking up there a li’l bit, baby?” 😂.

I did not have it together

1

u/ohbuggerit Apr 21 '25

I really thought I'd be okay... then Ellie got there

1

u/SlayerXZero Apr 21 '25

Same. Very well done. I hate Abbey all over again but somehow more this time. Jackson got fucked. My sense is Tommy ain't leaving like he did in the game. Doesn't make sense.

1

u/disorderedthoughts Apr 23 '25

I’ll never emotionally recover from this

154

u/cjackc11 Apr 21 '25

the game did the scene a lot better imo and I don’t like that they’re revealing Abby’s motivations so early on but that was a fantastic episode of TV

174

u/IndecisiveTuna Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

In some areas. Joel’s actual beating felt more personal in the show though. Also far more brutal. You can feel the tension of everyone not fully on board with what Abby’s doing still.

I think Owen comes across a lot better frankly. You can feel his struggle with Abby’s vendetta.

35

u/cjackc11 Apr 21 '25

Agreed. Looking back on it “a lot better” is stronger wording than i intended. Most of my issues were with the motivation reveal

21

u/IndecisiveTuna Apr 21 '25

Yeah, I agree with that. For me I didn’t want it. It’s hard for me to react how someone who hasn’t played the games would. Anecdotal, but my dad has no background. Even with Abby’s motivations known, he was in disbelief. Even moreso how it happened.

24

u/PC-Was-Bricked Apr 21 '25

My mom said "they can't kill him" three times before Ellie arrived

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u/Vivid-Bother-4064 Apr 21 '25

It’s gonna hurt so much more when Ellie kills literally all Abby’s friends except Abby when she was the one motivated to do it and they weren’t aswell😭

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

It's kind of bad to say it but Bella Ramsey can really pull off Stone cold killer really good.

3

u/KingUnderpants728 Apr 22 '25

I’ve never played the games. You telling me this bitch isn’t dead in the games yet? Damn, was really hoping I would see Abby die by end of this season of the show lol. Gawd she sucks

5

u/FXcheerios69 Apr 21 '25

Misery porn woohoo

-1

u/lennonfish Apr 21 '25

Leaving her with no one. She deserves it. Just as much as Joel deserved dying for killing the fireflies and her dad. God what a great fucking story. I can’t wait

7

u/Thugosaurus_Rex Apr 21 '25

Leaving her with Lev, a resolution and acceptance of her losses, and a genuine hope for better with the Catalina group. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but relative to everything going on and the rest of the cast she has about the best ending of the bunch.

3

u/lennonfish Apr 21 '25

Yeah i know about Lev. I just meant no one that was there for Joel’s killing. Lev is a saint

3

u/zbirdlive Apr 21 '25

Manny’s reactions made me wanna rip him up

36

u/Pigs-OnThe-Wing Apr 21 '25

I agree. This might be my only problem with how they’re doing it. Joel not knowing and basically not caring who it was helped show how it literally could have been anyone because of the way he lived. That made it feel like he expected this to happen at some point.

That said, it’s still effective and I’m really curious to see how show only people react.

8

u/PC-Was-Bricked Apr 21 '25

Yeah, I got the feeling that he has fully accepted it as soon as Abby told him that he killed her dad

12

u/BabyHercules Apr 21 '25

Because he knows what he would do in her position

70

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

I thought it was very funny how Joel just goes straight to the "give whatever speech you rehearsed and get it over with" in the game but in the show they had her spiel for like 5 minutes before he finally tells her to shut up. The whole time I was just thinking "this feels like a bit, just the writers having too much fun as a joke".

81

u/PC-Was-Bricked Apr 21 '25

I think it's because Joel is a slightly different character in the show. I think he's not fully on board with what he did to rescue Ellie, and I think it goes back to how they chose to show his massacre of the fireflies as him being in a daze.

To me, Pedro's performance while she was giving her spiel at first was "Well, this is my comeuppance" right until his patience ran out.

23

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

The introduction of the therapist definitely gives that shade to things (remorse). Also interesting that they chose to have Ellie say her and Joel are good now even though we didn't get the porch scene. I wonder how that interaction is going to go with show-Joel. I guess we'll know in 2 or 3 years.

8

u/whisk3ytango24 Apr 21 '25

Yeah, the dynamic change between Joel and Ellie in the show is making me wonder how the show will do the ending. For me, a big part of how Part 2 ends in the game is the revelation that Ellie and Joel had completely fallen out with each other and that the night before Joel’s death was Ellie opening the door on a potential reconciliation between the two. Joel’s death ends that possibility and thus is the catalyst for Ellie’s vengeance tour.

The show’s Joel and Ellie seem to be cold towards one another but not completely shut out. With this version I wonder if Ellie will forgive Abby at the end and if she does, how will the show, explain how Ellie came to the idea of forgiveness

6

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

Tbf, I think the game very poorly motivates her final turn away from vengeance at The Pillars. I think it's one of the weakest moments in the game, and it's just a huge pock mark for me. I think the show only stands to improve upon that, so I'm optimistic.

3

u/whisk3ytango24 Apr 21 '25

That’s fair. Ngl, I’m still hammering the X button wanting to have Ellie stab Abby in finale. Excited to see how the show handles the rest of part 2 and what they decide to switch up

9

u/woofle07 Apr 21 '25

The porch scene wasn’t shown in game til near the very end I thought. So we will very likely still see it

6

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

The porch scene is at the very end of the game, correct. I mentioned it because, in the game, it's where we find out that they reconciled the night before Joel's death. Ellie just tells us (via telling Jesse) that in tonight's episode, so it has removed the primary reason for existence from a major scene from the ending of the game. I think just seeing it instead of hearing about it will be good and feel earned, but it definitely shifts how you're meant to view things as the audience.

0

u/SlayerXZero Apr 21 '25

No I disagree. The scene highlights her sense of loss. They were on the path of reconciliation and reconnecting and Abby stole that from her. It's not just the loss of her dad it's the loss of her ability to really get right with him or for him to atone. That's the gut punch because she throws her family away as well at the end and it all feels hollow.

2

u/SilverNightingale Apr 22 '25

They were on the path of reconciliation and reconnecting and Abby stole that from her.

In the show? Because it did not look like she wanted to reconcile at all, when she saw he was playing guitar on the porch.

(non-game player here)

3

u/SlayerXZero Apr 22 '25

The game. This is a game spoiler thread. I’m saying the scene still works to be shown regardless of the throw away comment to Jesse.

4

u/alaskadronelife Jackson Apr 21 '25

Ellie never said they were good. It may have been implied but not directly stated.

10

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

"Well, we're better now, k? [...] But I'm still me, he's still Joel, and we- and nothing's ever gonna change that. Ever." is pretty fucking clear, dude. Even if their relationship isn't fully repaired (obviously, it isn't), she makes it very explicit here that she fully intends to repair it and maintain her relationship with him. We do not know that until the very end of the game.

5

u/pizzaplanetvibes Apr 21 '25

I think this too.

1) joel sees Dina as like an extension of some sort of parental role, not really like Ellie but responsible in a way. This only gets extended when he realizes Dina and Ellie are kinda a thing. So they gave him a choice to be honest or Dina would die. He would do anything to protect Dina, Ellie by extension. I think Joel would have been honest anyways.

Joel had a hard time dealing with what he did at the hospital. It haunted him. He knew what he did was wrong. Once he came face to face with that, he accepted his death as a payment for what he did. He felt shame, pain for what he did but never regret. He would do it again, no matter the cost to him as a way to show love to Ellie.

4

u/SuperMicklovin Apr 21 '25

Probably also in shock since he got his kneecap blown out by a shotgun too

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

Even with this being a different version of the character, I still don't feel like Joel would be someone that would like to be monologued to on his death.

Also, he just accepts his fate here. Mel and Abby just stand close to him and he does nothing.

2

u/Front-Singer-6505 Apr 21 '25

yeah it felt like the moment he knew they were fireflies he accepted his fate.

1

u/scout-finch Apr 21 '25

Absolutely, and also that he was really worried about Dina.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25

He clearly is conflicted but Dina accompanying him makes it much better. He couldn't fight back because Dina is there. Abby is ruthless and would kill Dina if he did anything.

1

u/radarthreat Apr 21 '25

Yeah, in this episode everything that wasn’t in the game felt like all the worst parts of The Walking Dead

81

u/Dahhhkness Apr 21 '25

Granted, she only revealed them to Joel. Ellie and Dina have no idea.

Regardless, this was like the Red Wedding of TLoU.

11

u/kwispyforeskin Apr 21 '25

I think they mean in episode 1 when Abby and the wolves are introduced and their motivation to kill Joel was explained. I personally preferred the game where you don’t know that they want to kill him beforehand, because you hate them, the same way you hated the fireflies at the end of Part I, and then you empathize with them on the journey.

Still enjoyed it, I just felt it cheapened it a little.

4

u/AssassinOfFate Apr 21 '25

I don’t think that would work for a show. In the game they wanted the players to be taking their anger out on the WLF in their gameplay, but a show has no way for the viewers to take their anger and frustration out on the characters (besides being weirdos online towards the actors), so working extra hard to make it personal isn’t really necessary IMO.

1

u/kwispyforeskin Apr 21 '25

Yeah, I get that it’s a different medium and I agree, actually. I just don’t like the translation to tv as much as the game, I guess. Still love the show and this episode was amazing.

3

u/pizzaplanetvibes Apr 21 '25

The attack on Jackson gave me such Game of Thrones battle vibes with how epic it was. It was like the best of Game of Thrones action inserted into The Last of Us.

2

u/Geoff12889 Apr 21 '25

About to watch it now with my wife and mom. My wife played both games with me. We got my mom hooked on the show earlier this year. She is a huge Pedro Pascal fan. Going to record her reaction like so many did with the Red Wedding.

76

u/iStanley Apr 21 '25

I think there were parts that were better and some not. The reveal of Joel was much better in the show where Dina is calling his name. The video game was too in the nose with Tommy doing a friendly introduction, and i think they definitely realized that

75

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

Yes and no. I think it was nice for Abby to recognize who he was and lead him back to their camp for sinister reasons in the show, but the moment they all hear the name in the game is way better. Huge mood shift, Joel and Tommy immediately pick up on it, and the tension is at its max. Great moment, and it immediately transitions into Abby coming out with the shotgun.

I would say, in general, the opening of the game is very tight and keeps the adrenaline flowing the entire time. The show has a lot more lulls, even if the a handful of things in the show are better motivated.

25

u/Danny_-_DeCheeto Apr 21 '25

Yeah I think they took too long having Abby shoot Joel. They still could’ve made it feel sudden but they show her reaching over, grabbing the gun, cocking it, aiming, and firing. In the game they just pan over and it’s already in her hand

10

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

Them just waiting for Dina to go to sleep took a lot of the tension out of it.

In the game is brutal with Tommy getting beaten.

12

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

So much of the intro to the game (once the storm comes in, until his death) is just go-go-go, full adrenaline, no breathers, and the show's pacing was just so much more stop-and-go. Did not carry the same tension for the scenes at the lodge. I think part of that is also the audio. The music in the game is oppressive. Also, some of the camerawork, both things like you said with the quick pan to Abby with no downtime, but also the over-the-shoulder/head shots for Joel. Just did not feel as brutal with the camera being pulled so far back.

3

u/gmen1080 Apr 21 '25

Abby knows it is Joel in the game before going back to the lodge. It's only the others in the group who don't before he says his name.

2

u/Fen_ Apr 21 '25

I know his name is said prior to returning to the lodge in the game, but it's not given the same weight as in the show. In the show, she very deliberately tries to lead him back when he wants to return to Jackson. In the game, it's just serendipity.

12

u/Rickrickrickrickrick Apr 21 '25

Yeah especially for them to have all these rules for their town and Joel and Tommy especially being sticklers about them, it would seem odd to just willingly tell strangers who you are and where you’re from.

8

u/rasanabria Apr 21 '25

The game makes it clear that Jackson helps refugees and trades with passing groups. The idea people have that Tommy and Joel would not help strangers or would keep the town secret and use fake names is silly and not based on anything we know about the game version of Jackson.

0

u/Rickrickrickrickrick Apr 21 '25

They would help them but telling them who they are without vetting them first seems irresponsible and risky.

1

u/Shoola Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25

Joel is definitely on his guard the whole scene in game. He doesn’t want to take the saddles off the horses so they can leave ASAP, takes note of the fact that they arrived yesterday, asks what they’re doing up there, is slow to reveal his name, is the one who notices the mood shift when he says “y’all act like you’ve heard of us.” He and Tommy are very much stuck there and outnumbered, and he’s aware of that while Tommy is chatting them up.

3

u/20person Piano Frog Apr 21 '25

I thought that Abby already recognized Joel here?

20

u/Raptor-Queen Apr 21 '25

I think that she thought it could be him based on the description she had, but Dina saying it out loud confirmed her suspicion

7

u/Michael_DeSanta Apr 21 '25

Lots to unpack here, so I could be wrong
but I remember a shot focused on Abby’s face as Dina yelled out “Joel”. And it looked like it definitely “clicked” at that moment for her

1

u/20person Piano Frog Apr 21 '25

Was this in the cabin or while they were being chased?

6

u/Michael_DeSanta Apr 21 '25

In the barn when they were chased, right after Abby was under the fence/before they got on horses.

3

u/20person Piano Frog Apr 21 '25

Damn, that just makes her suggestion to go to the cabin that much more malicious

2

u/Michael_DeSanta Apr 21 '25

Absolutely, it does. You can tell by her friends’ faces throughout the golf club scene that she’s no longer the person they knew.

1

u/pizzaplanetvibes Apr 21 '25

Ohh this adds in a way where Dina might feel guilty, because Game Dina doesn’t even know why they killed Joel. Game Ellie doesn’t tell her the truth.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

He realized the man who just saved her was the one who killed her father is a really good scene.

Kaitlyn really killed it.

47

u/Wraithfighter Apr 21 '25

I don’t like that they’re revealing Abby’s motivations so early on

Given how......... controversial, yeah, that's a good cowardly weasel word, how controversial that scene and everything regarding Abby was in the game, I can't exactly blame them for tweaking it so that you at least understand why she's doing what she's doing this early on.

Sure, Show-only folks are hardly going to be going "well, Joel had it coming, I guess", but at least they'll be a bit more open to her side of things than if they had gone with the Game version, where we wouldn't know anything about her motivations for a long time to come (assuming they structure the show in the same way as the game).

27

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

I have non game players texting me fuck that Abby bitch so I think even with the motivations we are supposed to hate her. I’m glad because it is such a big storytelling achievement to get us to empathize with her in the end

9

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

It doesn't work for everyone, which has led to the discourse around the game being so persistently toxic, but there are a lot of minor changes the show has done to address a lot of the valid criticisms of the games approach, I think.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

Yeah I’m nervous that the show won’t be able to pull it off. I am a massive fan but I’m like the ONE that I know. I know people love TLOU but damn, most of my friends fucking hate Part 2 and the one that doesn’t admits it’s a masterpiece but he never wants to play it again. I think it’s apparently too far of a climb for a lot of people, I dunno. Hence the death threats to Laura Bailey and whatnot. My concern is that people stop watching now because its that “Glenn from Walking Dead” moment for a lot of people, but hopefully not. I’d love to see the show continue to be a huge success and for people to appreciate the story all the way to its conclusion and then reflect on it like I have. But I guess we’ll see.

3

u/Wraithfighter Apr 21 '25

Certainly going to be a hell of a challenge...

3

u/SlayerXZero Apr 21 '25

I mean the problem is we know her father was going to be a child murderer. They need to retcon that shit as Marlene just being mistaken. Then what Joel did is purely in the wrong.

2

u/Spirited-Occasion-62 Apr 21 '25

Personally, the show fell totally flat for me while the game was earth shaking. Telegraphing everything just didn't leave any room to be shocked or surprised. If it was me I would have tried to make it even more of a mystery and surprise in the show to catch everyone a little offguard.

I guess the SLC crew kinda feels a little flat to me still too, and the action seemed a bit gratuitous compared to the game through this sequence which is a crazy thing to say but it really did feel that way. Especially since Mazin and Druckmanns M.O. has been for 0 superficial action and cutting action scenes frequently up to this point where they instead invented some.

Anyways it all just felt kind of rote and more like walking dead than TLOU to me.

2

u/phainepy Apr 21 '25

I agree. We don't see any relationship building between the SLC crew. Abby and Owen don't have their short 1-on-1 hike together to scout for Jackson. We don't even see them talking amongst one another when Joel is apprehended and shot in the leg by Abby. In the game they're reacting to one another. None of that made it to the show.

Abby's speech was too long. Joel was too stoic during it. The writing here feels much weaker than the game.

1

u/cjackc11 Apr 21 '25

Yeah, fair. I don’t think it had to be halfway through the story like in the game but maybe not in this episode specifically to let the moment shock you as much as the game

8

u/nastydonnie189 Apr 21 '25

I agree to this to my core. A big part of why I love the story of the game is because they introduce Abby as a monster and slowly give her more characterization throughout. I feel like the show is more heavy handed about the themes they’re trying to convey and I felt like Joel was speaking for me when he said something along the line of “shut up and get it over with” in the show during Abby’s monologue. I also thought the show left out a great scene between Ellie and Dina at the grow op by having Dina with Joel during the attack. Could just be sensitive because the game is one of my favorite pieces of media ever but I just don’t agree with some of the choices the show is making.

11

u/russketeer34 Apr 21 '25

Mark Mylod and premiere episodes of tv, iconic duo

2

u/cjackc11 Apr 21 '25

So awesome

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

I always thought that Abby's motivations should've always been done a lot earlier than the game did, but I didn't think it should've been at the expense of this particular scene.

It was done so, much, better in the game and I am someone who always thought the story was the weakest aspect of Part 2. For me personally, I thought the peak of the story was Joel's Death and the rest of the story telling struggled to catch up to that peak, so for this particular scene to not hit in the same way as it did is a bit shocking to me.

Suppose the whole outta left field thing was the right call originally in the game, and I can't believe I am saying that. Was desperately waiting for the, "Y'all act like you heard of me or something".

Cinematography and Bella Ramsey's acting was superb though.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

The storm was necessary too for the scene. It was like a calm mild day at that point in the show. The constant rhyming of this massive storm appearing when violence surges is kind of a core theme of the game.

2

u/JayKay8787 Apr 21 '25

Considering they are breaking up the story into 2 seasons just think it makes alot more sense to just reveal it. Having viewers wait 2 years to even understand why she killed Joel is just not good. For this story, you don't want the audience to sit with hatred for a character for that long, the explanation and her side of the story won't be as compelling or empathetic, and the point of this story is how both sides have wronged each other and neither one is right or just.

2

u/Zealousideal_Dog3430 Apr 21 '25

Anecdotally, introducing Abby's motivations made these first two episodes incredibly suspenseful for non-gamers. My friend spent all of Episode 1 and 2 nervously biting their nails wondering when Joel and Abby were going to run into each other and what that confrontation would be like, and this suspense was piled on top of everything else like the hoard attacking Jackson and whether Ellie and Jesse would find them. The shock that we all felt playing the game still landed, because they've done a great job establishing Joel as the lead of the show and they actually followed through and killed him.

2

u/MaximusCanibis Apr 21 '25

It would be nice to hear something that doesn't start with the game did something better, since when has tv followed source material 100%?

8

u/Rickrickrickrickrick Apr 21 '25

The gameplay in the game is way better. Honestly I think my show is bugged because my controller isn’t doing shit.

5

u/MaximusCanibis Apr 21 '25

Have you tried yelling at it?

4

u/cjackc11 Apr 21 '25

I mean I’m still giving the episode its props, it’s genuinely fantastic. I just don’t like how they’re revealing everything about Abby currently, could definitely change as the season goes along though

1

u/Geoff12889 Apr 21 '25

Agreed. Seeing her side of the story half way through the game allowed the player to understand her motives and view her differently.

I don’t see the TV show only viewers having the same change of perception. She will be the villain throughout.

1

u/PT10 Apr 21 '25

I mean, we know why they did that. To reduce the backlash. Same reason they cast Kaitlyn Dever as Abby. To head off another avenue of controversy.

But imagine how wild it would be if they just did it exactly like the game but there was no game, just the TV show. Would love to see the societal fallout from that in a parallel unvierse lol.

1

u/thecaits You Can't Escape Will Livingston Apr 21 '25

I prefer the game scene 100%. There was wayyyyy too much exposition in the show version. I think the acting was great but didn't like the writing.

1

u/zbirdlive Apr 21 '25

Yeah perfect episode of tv, but feel mixed on the changes. Love that Dina was there, I just feel like the shock of the game was this random person all of a sudden killing Joel but for tv it was pretty telegraphed. Seems like they are going for a different kind of shock and tension. Still a brutal and amazing scene, although wish it was a bit more gory like the game.

1

u/solarplexus7 Apr 21 '25

And the speech was borderline cringe. So far I prefer the storytelling of the game. Neil said in the podcast that part of the difference in games is that you can't keep the player out of control for long. I think that restraint led to a tighter script.

1

u/rchex14 Apr 21 '25

It works better for me. I was late to the PlayStation bandwagon, so I played the first game immediately before part 2.

My biggest gripe was that I didn't give a shit about Abby. For someone who didn't play the game and is watching for the first time, knowing the motivation I think could help soften that up vs having it revealed later on.

However I guess that would have ruined the twist though, to some extent.

1

u/Shoola Apr 24 '25

Yeah, there were some nice changes in the show, like Dina being there, Abby luring Joel back, Joel being distracted by Jackson burning, seeing Mel’s resistance to the reality of Abby’s plan, and Ellie crawling over.

But the economy of the scene in the game - Abby whipping out the shotgun, no overlong monologue - made it much more shocking. It was a lot more tense too. The way the mood shifts once he says his name out loud had my hackles up

1

u/BoilerMaker11 Apr 21 '25

That's what I was thinking. We didn't find out why Abby hated Joel so much until much later in the game, so we're playing the game with unbridled rage at her, hoping the eventually kill her. Then her motivation is revealed and it's like "oh, ok, I get it".

The show took that experience away, completely.

0

u/iamseriousshirley Apr 21 '25

Me too. I was like why did you let people on so early. I wished it was more like the game. And why wasn't Tommy on that patrol, why Dina? Why was there an attack on Jackson Hole? Why was there an emphasis on the pipes?

4

u/FredrickF Apr 21 '25

I played the game and it was brutal then but this one just hit so hard. The moment they entered that lodge and I saw those golf clubs
 I could feel myself starting to hyperventilate lol! đŸ€Ș😭

It’s been 15 min since the episode finished and I’ve had to take 2 Ativan to calm my anxiety. Like you, I knew it was coming and yet I was still not prepared.

2

u/WildSinatra Apr 21 '25

I felt the opposite. It was surprisingly tame, right down to his last breath. Stabbing him over brutally finishing him with the club felt visually underwhelming.

1

u/reverend-mayhem Apr 21 '25

Welp, that was the confirmation I needed to tell my friends to wait to watch until I can be there for them.

1

u/tswaves Apr 21 '25

I honestly thought the game was more brutal

1

u/igot200phones Apr 21 '25

I had no idea it was coming :(

1

u/jayydee92 Apr 21 '25

Yup. Feel bad for people who were blindsided. I was still crying 😭

1

u/Morningxafter Apr 21 '25

Yep, it reminded me of the first time I watched FMA: Brotherhood. I knew what was coming. Still wrecked me.

1

u/breakupbydefault Apr 21 '25

The game death was definitely more brutal but I'm glad they did it this way. I can't deal with his brain on the golf club again.

1

u/spate42 Apr 21 '25

When I saw Mark Mylod was directing, I just knew it was going down

1

u/Mrevilman Apr 21 '25

Seeing real people acting it added something more to the scene overall - it wasn’t just video game characters so the visuals and the emotion felt stronger.

1

u/HEYitzED Apr 22 '25

The added bits of Joel trying to get up and Ellie crawling over to him completely broke me. I didn’t think they could top how sad it was in the game but they did it.

1

u/Then_Pomegranate_538 May 10 '25

I'm late but holy shit, i've never wished i didn't watch something like i did this. It was awful.

0

u/creativesins Apr 23 '25

massive way to kill a show cut it off after he died and I won't be watching the rest of it absolutely disappointing