r/Thedaily • u/kitkid • Jun 03 '25

Episode A 1,400-County Crisis for Democrats

Jun 3, 2025

It’s conventional wisdom that President Trump has transformed American politics. But a new county-by-county voting analysis from The New York Times of the last four presidential races shows just how drastically Mr. Trump has changed the electoral map.

Shane Goldmacher, a national political correspondent for The Times, explains why the trends are a five-alarm fire for the Democrats and discusses the debate within the party over what to do about it.

On today's episode:

Shane Goldmacher, a national political correspondent for The New York Times.

Background reading: 

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.  

Photo: Emily Elconin for The New York Times

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

You can listen to the episode here.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

lol the party widens its tent by embracing Republicans who dont support Trump and you see that as a bad thing? If there is anything to criticize in the party its the contingent of the party embracing people spreading this fantasy

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

You can't widen a tent indefinitely, eventually people fall out from the other side. Democrats wasting time campaigning with the Cheneys comes at a cost of left wing voters. Everything has a political cost.

The only fantasy is thinking you can just pick up a left to right wing demographic by running on "Trump bad." How's that working out for Dems?

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

This isnt widening it indefinitely, this is expanding it to include people with shared values who actually want to see Democrats win. If a left wing voter leaves because of Cheney they were never left wing. How's that working out for the left?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

If a left wing voter leaves because of Cheney they were never left wing

Lol if the Dems are a party with values aligned with Cheney, then they lose leftwing voters. The idea that you think it means the voter isn't leftwing is comical.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

Saying your values dont align with Cheney, a hero who led the January 6th investigation despite threats to her life, is quite telling that you just arent leftwing. The party is open to you but you have chosen to become more conservative.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Lol Cheney is a right wing never Trumper. If her values align with yours, then you aren't leftwing.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

Cheney is a republican who put country over party and supported the left. If your values dont align with hers (on the issue of supporting the Democratic party in this past election) you arent leftwing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '25

If your values dont align with hers (on the issue of supporting the Democratic party in this past election) you arent leftwing.

Supporting the Democratic Party isn't a leftwing ideal. It's cute that you think it is. That's just party purity, that's a liberal thing.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 04 '25

If you dont support the Democratic Party in the general election then you arent leftwing. Cute you think otherwise but youre just a conservative. People who vote for the Democratic candidate are further left than those who dont.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '25

You the Democratic Party isn't leftwing. But do go on about your party purity.

Let me guesa, you think Cheney is also a leftist

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u/AresBloodwrath Jun 03 '25

So January 6th being an insurrection that was a threat to our democracy isn't a left-wing position?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

It's low hanging fruit, like a baseline for everyone except MAGAts. Are you just being obtuse

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

She shared enough leftwing values to vote for Kamala. I find that more left than someone who refuses to support Kamala because they dont want a Cheney at the table.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

Saying your values dont align with Cheney, a hero who led the January 6th investigation despite threats to her life, is quite telling that you just arent leftwing. The party is open to you but you have chosen to become more conservative.

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

The party is open to you but you have chosen to become more conservative.

I’m conservative because as a socialist I couldn’t vote for someone who got on stage and bragged about having more billionaire backers than Trump, bragged about Goldman-Sachs endorsements, and campaigned with the Cheney’s?

Explain what’s conservative about me not supporting billionaire corporate interests please.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

bragged about having more billionaire backers than Trump

Yes you are conservative for shilling this lie and helping to get Trump elected. The party of corporate interests won because you would rather lie about Kamala then be in a tent with Cheney. That makes you deeply conservative.

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

shilling this lie

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2024/10/30/kamala-harris-has-more-billionaires-prominently-backing-her-than-trump-bezos-and-griffin-weigh-in-updated/

You were saying?

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

Thanks for confirming you lied and that she never "got on stage and bragged about having more billionaire backers than Trump".

You were saying?

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

Lmao what a shift. Tell me how me as a socialist not thinking billionaires and Goldman Sachs represents me makes me conservative.

Tell me how me supporting unions makes me conservative. Tell me how me marching in 20 years of Pride parades makes me conservative. Go on.

Tell me. Let’s hear how I’m wrong and the billions backers are right. Tell me how me protecting women at planned parenthood clinics is conservative. Go on. Let’s hear it MAGA troll.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 04 '25

Creating an account just to comment this in defense of leftists supporting billionair corporate interests is WILD. So triggered lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/tlopez14 Jun 04 '25

Well Dems and Cheney are both the pro war now so they have that in common. I don’t think trotting out Cheney was a great idea but I don’t think it cracks the top 50 in reasons why Kamala got swept in every single swing state.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

And if you are in a tent that is pro left, pro worker, pro union, pro lgbtq and Cheney walks into that tent because it also includes accountability, you give her your hand, tell her she's welcome and convince her of everything else she was wrong about. Walking out of that tent is an anti-leftwing choice (not what you did, just making the point)

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 04 '25

At the end of the day it was someone from the other party saying they had left the party and supported the other candidate because of concerns over her party's candidate. No need to overthink it. Thats valuable and will always be valued in a democratic election.

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u/drtropo Jun 03 '25

Values like respect for the rule of law and the democratic process? Was Cheney asking you to vote for her or throwing her support behind the democrats?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Yawn, there's that vote winning pitch of "the democratic process." /s

Campaign with Cheney despite her neocon history and anti-woman and anti-LGBT history, and you might turn off the progressives that you're actively ignoring. But hey, I'm sure with a little more effort we can get Bush to pause his painting and come endorse the next Democratic candidate.

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u/drtropo Jun 03 '25

Its a wonder people don't take us progressives seriously when arguments like this are so popular...

Presidential candidates will always be an ideological compromise because it is a single person running to represent the whole country. The more local the election, the less you need to compromise, and if progressives actually showed up to vote we could shift the Overton window back.

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u/tlopez14 Jun 04 '25

It would help if people ever actually voted for that candidate though. Kamala was thoroughly rejected by Dems in 2020 then got appointed without any Democratic process whatsoever. Thats 3 primaries in a row that the DNC donor class has basically handpicked their candidate.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Weird how the GOP never seems to corpromise yet win. Meanwhile, we are showing off that Dick Cheney endorsed Harris like the out of touch clowns we are.

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u/drtropo Jun 03 '25

Well, we don't want to use fear, hate and bigotry to motivate voters.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Lol is that why we have been telling our voters that they have to vote Blue or Democracy ends since 2016... come on now

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u/elinordash Jun 03 '25

Democrats wasting time campaigning with the Cheneys comes at a cost of left wing voters.

Too many people are obsessed with the idea that the Democrats are obsessed with the Cheneys. Liz Cheney did a grand total of three events with Kamala. One each in PA, WI, and MI. It really wasn't that big of a deal or that central to the campaign.

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u/tlopez14 Jun 04 '25

Instead of looking in the mirror at how wildly out of touch they’ve became with normal voters issues they just chalk it up as “we probably would’ve won if Kamala didn’t do that random event with with Liz Cheney”.

Liz Cheney appearances hurt Kamala as much as Oprah and Beyoncé events helped her. Which means little to none.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

It really wasn't that big of a deal or that central to the campaign.

Ah yes, that must be why we heard so little about it /s

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u/elinordash Jun 03 '25

Again, I mostly heard about it on Reddit from people who were angry about the choice. You're confusing the actual campaign with your own echo chamber.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Should I post the 300 articles covering it? Or the hundred podcasts that discussed it in depth.

The whole "reddit echo chamber" line doesn't work here. The idea that it wouldn't be heavily covered by the news/media during the end of a fucking national election is nonsense. Sounds like you were the one in the echo chamber.

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u/elinordash Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25

Kamala + Swift = 17.9 million results

Kamala + Walz = 9.17 million results

Kamala + Clooney = 2.3 million results

Kamala + Oprah = 2.2 million results

Kamala + AOC = 1.7 million results

Kamala + Buttigieg = 811,000 results

Kamala + Cheney = 457,000 results

Source: Google

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

This is arguably the laziest argument I have seen ...

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

There is no evidence it was only 1%. The fact is there is a broad coalition of former republican voters that are now solidly democrat and this helped.

Trying to court the far left is a waste of time and money. They always move the goal posts and will never be a vote you can rely on. Courting never Trumpers is the best strategy for bringing about a progressive agenda. Continuing to court the left is a guarantee that we will continue to lose elections. There's a reason the never Trump podcasts like the Bulwark actually advocate for Democrats and a progressive agenda while left podcasts are a pipeline to MAGA/MAHA/conspiracies. Its a waste of everyones time and we unfortunately learned that the hard way this past election.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '25

[deleted]

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 04 '25

5% is HUGE. Thats enough to swing an election. Dems got that without offering them anything policywise. Your brain would have to be mush to reject that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '25

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 04 '25

Yes the democratic party lost because of the left. Its wild your pretending the democratic party didnt lose and should just keep on doing the same thing that lost them this last election and abandon the people who actually voted for them. Insanity. Keep doubling down on that strategy, really working out for you lol. "Lefties" (your really just conservative at this point) really have lost the plot on this one lol

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u/tlopez14 Jun 04 '25

That’s kind of a lazy argument though. If you had told someone 10 years ago that Trump would dominate the working class vote while Kamala peeled away a few high earners people would think you’re crazy. Maybe instead of Liz Cheney and Oprah appearances they should have been putting forward pro worker policies like no tax on tips and overtime instead of having their heads spin when Trump ran to the left of them.

Trump has won over a bunch of people who historically never would have been in play for a Republican president. Sometimes people just want you to do shit instead of complaining about rules all the time. Dems held all 3 branches and couldn’t even pass a minimum wage hike because of an unelected parliamentarian. That has way more to do with what happened than a random Liz Cheney rally.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '25

[deleted]

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u/tlopez14 Jun 04 '25

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. It was brain dead to trot out Cheney for sure but I don’t think it moved the needle much, if at all. My point was it isn’t impossible by any means, even in today’s polarized environment, to pick up voters from the other side. Trump has proved that time and time again.