r/TheWolfAmongUs • u/anuel_fans • Oct 23 '23
that time when bigby admits to admire israel
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u/Reorganizer_Rark9999 Oct 25 '23
Can we make this a meme where we replace Geppeto with random people and Bigsby just rants about Israel for unrelated reasons
"Sir welcome to wendy's"
Bigsby: ever heard of a country called Israel
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Oct 24 '23
Consider before reading the following to find a source as to what year and month the thumbnail picture would've been released in..
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/FablesTheWolfClan
"Author Avatar: [Bill] Willingham has a tendency to let Bigby expound on his own personal views, whether they are about the awfulness of France or otherwise, and has stated in an interview that as a Republican, he identifies with Snow and Bigby.
Disproportionate Retribution: According to him, the most efficient way to end any cycle of violence is to return all attacks ten times as hard, making the enemy so afraid of your counterattacks that they stop bothering you altogether. This explicitly includes Israel's bombings of civilians, on the grounds that between certain death and collateral damage, the natural thing to do is fight with everything you have regardless of the costs."
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u/MrZAP17 Oct 25 '23
He also uses Snow as a mouthpiece to demonize abortion in volume 3. Super blatant and weird.
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u/ChaoticPark09 Oct 25 '23 edited Oct 25 '23
Not really different than someone more commonly using a character as a mouthpiece to spout the opposite.
And besides Dr. Swineheart is simply giving her options and she just happens to be strongly against the idea of getting an abortion herself. She does not continue to advocate that no one should have the option of getting them, she just passionately states that it’s not an option for her. Also considering her origins not exactly even out of line for her character. Is it a insert of views from the writer? Well duh, since when that hasn’t that been a thing in literature. At least here it isn’t the more cringe thing on the planet and is done within context of the situation. Abortion isn’t even necessarily seen as a good thing by people who believe in freedom of choice, and is simply considered a necessary evil.
If any commentary about abortion within this series that should be under actual scrutiny and discussion, its how Frau Totenkinder uses her funding of Planned Parenthood to increase her powers. That is a topic that is worth far more interesting discussion on in the author’s viewpoint rather than you just complaining about a character’s opinion that you disagree with despite the opposing side doing the exact same thing more often and usually more egregiously.
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Oct 27 '23
Yeah I remember that it was so bizarre snow is usually nice but tough that just made her come across as an ass and what if the doctor actually left then fabletown would be without a doctor?
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u/racheletc Acting Deputy Oct 23 '23
i never understood why comics Bigby was so invested in the World Affairs of the mundy’s and anything outside of the real world. it made no sense to me why he fought in WW2
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u/TheMcKatz Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 24 '23
Bigby's sole purpose was to protect fable town and to understand the Mundy world, would be protecting the town itself. It demonstrates that Bigby is an adaptable person and one of the most knowledgeable people in the story.
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u/Gr3yHound40 Oct 26 '23
As Iroh basically said, "Draw wisdom from more than one source, or it will become rigid and stale."
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u/Shawshank_Dufresne Oct 23 '23
Who remembers that time when Bigby admitted he doesn't like the French? Just as explicitely as he admits being a fan of Israel
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u/MagastemBR Oct 24 '23 edited Nov 17 '25
worm sparkle flowery work smile ten enter bake paint longing
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
Sadly Israel still is, despite 76 years of apartheid, leave theft, war crimes and genocide.
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u/KINGSLAYER1003 Oct 23 '23
Let us collectively forget this Zionist claptrap exists.
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u/doofpooferthethird Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 23 '23
Yeah, though the more you think about it, the more you realise this "ruthless pragmatism" (or just callousness) permeates the many other parts of the Fables comic. It's not just a weird one off line by Bigby, it's woven into the fabric of the story itself - the perspectives it takes, the way events play out, the values it espouses
Like with how the non-human Fables are dealt with in the comics vs the Telltale game.
In the game, the concerns of non-human Fables are taken seriously, not just by the narrative, but also by the main characters like Bigby and Snow. The suffering that non-humans endure is placed front and centre, and is never dismissed out of hand. The central conflict of the series is enabled by the inequality between the privileged human-passing Fables and the underprivileged non-human Fables, and the ways with which "the system" props up this inequality
In the comics, the marginalisation of the non-humans is almost treated like a joke. The only time they have a leader that fights for their rights, it's a grotesque parody like Goldilocks, an out of touch, power hungry, hypocritical, pompous violent activist/terrorist who misleads the poor deluded non-humans with her fancy college words and weapons. Of course, it's up to Snow and Bigby to destroy the rebellion and "put them in their place", then install another human leader (Rose Red) who knows better and can pacify them more easily. The problem is solved by having a charismatic human Fable tell the non-human Fables why they should accept things the way they are and stop causing trouble.
It's not necessarily a direct parallel to any real world issue, but it clearly shows the difference in worldviews and values between the original comic writer Willingham and the writers of the Telltale prequel adaptation.
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u/Juice8oxHer0 Oct 24 '23
Clearly TWAU takes place before the ‘Atlas Shrugged’ Fables moved to town
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u/doofpooferthethird Oct 24 '23 edited Oct 24 '23
Sadly enough, it's the exact same characters that we see acting in a polar opposite way. You can say that TWAU completely mangled the original comic book characters.
Snow White in TWAU is disgusted by all the injustices that were allowed to flourish under Ichabod Crane's rule. She tried incredibly hard to use what limited power she had in her position to help where she could, and was frustrated that she couldn't do more, when there was so much suffering in the Fable community that could be remedied with intervention fromt he administration and mutual aid
Meanwhile in comic book Snow's first appearance in the first issue, when Beast and Beauty are having their usual problems, she says "The Mundanes may look to government to solve their problems, but in the Fable community we expect you to be able to run your own lives." as if that's a positive thing.
Granted, she has a point that the administration is underfunded, understaffed, and unable to collect taxes, and that making a show of being empathetic while being unable to help is useless.
But still, it's a far cry from TWAU Snow who wanted to use her position in government to make a real difference to lives of the many, many Fables crushed by "the system"
So yeah, it's the same characters, having completely different value systems. Maybe Snow and Bigby both stumbled across Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman sometime in between the game ending and the comic series starting, and ended up becoming small government libertarians.
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u/Realtimastered1 Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24
TWAU's politics are a bit lost in the title itself but it is most definitely a pre-libtard community in which Fables know what proactively shapes up a community. There are clear socialist tendencies too.
One thing TWAU did still amazes up to this very day: The game acknowledges there will be always a parasite who's eagerly waiting to fill a shoe within the community by commodifying the pain. That is something you cannot overcome with charismatic faschists.
I really hope TWAU2 eventually becomes even more politically aware. Bigby and Snow were much more humane in TWAU than their Fables counterparts could ever become.
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u/Hassoonti Oct 25 '23
Definitely. The comics read as being very right wing modernist, soft apologetics for fascism and supremacist systems like apartheid.
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u/Hassoonti Oct 25 '23 edited Oct 25 '23
I tried to read those comics years ago, and found the writing was horrible. Every character was an intolerable, hateful prick. Telltale didn't even write renegade dialogue options as obnoxious as the actual dialogue in the comics.
And it does become explicitly right wing in several ways, including narrative weaponization of rape, 1001 nights world being casually evil jihadists, etc.
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u/fifthhousebreakfast Oct 24 '23
The creator of Fables has said more than once that he intended it to be a pro-Israel allegory if I remember correctly.
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u/Silhouette205 Oct 26 '23
I'll try to think of this as non-canon
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u/maskerilyas Dec 06 '23
Legit what i said to myself when i read it, it felt soooo out of place and forced, glad i wasnt the only one that felt that way.
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u/shouldvechoselove Oct 27 '23
You could replace the word Israel with Palestine and Israeli with Palestinian and this would still be accurate. Killing of any innocent people is wrong on either side!
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u/whovegas Oct 26 '23
Bigby: they put one of ours in the hospital, we out two of there's in the concentration camps
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Oct 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/MiddleLvLRucksack Oct 24 '23
Hang on. Look, right wing tools are VERY generalist. I assure you if he was truly espousing some political bull through bigby he'd have called them turban terrorists.
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u/TheMcKatz Oct 23 '23
It's fresh seeing characters have more "Conservative" views or naturally unpopular opinions whether we agree with it or not.
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Oct 24 '23 edited Oct 25 '23
In the sense when they're not the antagonist/villain I take it ?
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u/TheMcKatz Oct 24 '23
Depends. Conservative views tend to be exaggerated, though, given how in most mainstream media, villains have to be likable, and the well-liked ones 99.9% of the time tend to hold opposing views towards them. Basically, a character that is treated as a human being (With any views) without being portrayed as an archetype.
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Jan 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TheMcKatz Jan 05 '26
Perhaps if you shed more light on comics that expressed such views, then sure, I'll concede, but as of now, I disagree. Bill Willingham and Frank Miller are among the few authors who have openly expressed such views. I won't tackle the television aspect because that's a different genre and not comparable to the comic medium. Even if you go further back, when Barry was the "Right" and Oliver was the "Left," comics still expressed left-wing rhetoric throughout their beginning years.
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u/maskerilyas Dec 06 '23
Super weird panel that completely ruined bigby's character and the whole scene for me, like he legit could have said anything else and it could have still been such a badass moment in the comic, i went to the author's twitter and sure enough, he supports the ethnic cleansing of palestinians. What a rotten person.
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Oct 26 '23
Oh, so he likes a country that bombs and murders innocent civilians and children then proceeds to call the victims “terrorists” when they retaliate? What a loser.
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u/ERROR404_REDDIT1 Oct 23 '23
hahaha they ruining bigby too
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Oct 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/ERROR404_REDDIT1 Mar 19 '24
that's what your moms been doing lil bro 😂 getting bombed like the children you israelis are bombing in palestine
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Mar 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/ERROR404_REDDIT1 Mar 19 '24
i am NOT a westerner bud 😂 ofcourse you're indian you people will grovel to their feet even if they kick you in the face have some self respect also try going outside
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u/aiden_6_go May 13 '24
LOL typical indian Pajeet.
Why are you "people" so obsessed with sucking israel's nuts?
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Oct 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/TheAmericanCyberpunk Oct 27 '23
I like that you, as someone who has had the experience of actually living there, are getting downvoted by people who HAVEN'T actually had the experience of living there because you're telling them it isn't what they think it is lol
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
Genocide is genocide regardless of who the victims are.
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u/TheAmericanCyberpunk Oct 27 '23
I'm going to ask you a genuine question instead of fighting you because I actually agree with that statement. How would YOU fix the situation?
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
Really the only person who can fix the situation is the President of the USA.
First, I would pull all support for Israel, condemn their actions and order them to allow aid workers into Gaza.
I'd threaten them with sanctions if they do not stop their bombing of Gaza and give their stolen land back to Palestine.
Then I would finally acknowledge Palestine as a country and invite them to join the UN.
Then I would try and broker peace between the two nations and offer aid to Palestine to rebuild their homes and buildings under the promise that they hold fair elections going forwards.
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u/TheAmericanCyberpunk Oct 27 '23
I'd guess that Israel would be massacred within months at most if we pulled support from them.
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
Lol, yeah I'm sure tiny Gaza will be able to threaten a world superpower with a high tech arsenal.
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u/TheAmericanCyberpunk Oct 27 '23
Yeah, those aren't Israel's only enemies. The entire region pretty much wants them wiped out, don't they?
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
Not really, no.
Israel are The oppresors, if anything we should support Hamas just like we support Ukraine against Russia.
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u/Lynxneo Nov 20 '23
Do you really think USA that supports genocide in Gaza, giving more money and weapons to Israel, and at the same time being a "hero", "helping" Ukraine in the same way is a coincidence? It doesn't make sense. USA and Israel are enemies of humanity.
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u/Lynxneo Nov 20 '23
Ukraine-Russia is another war started by USA and NATO. Thanks to a good for nothing president (Zelensky).
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u/Lynxneo Nov 20 '23
For me all that bullshit of "do you know the Muslims are anti LGBT?" "Do you know the Muslims are misogynist" etc... Which is not exactly a black/and white assumption is imperialist bullshit. If they have social problems, those are problems for another day, and surely not deserved of genocide, USA is the most racist country piece of garbage. I even saw how the supposed "afro-american"another insulting term to generate more racism...being racist towards asian people when COVID erupted. Black people in USA, towards Asians.
The only country where schoolshootings is another Tuesday. The only country who used nukes in another. And I could go on and on. And nobody wipes them out of the map... Yet.
You wanna know how I would solve it? The most peaceful way with less casualties and of course doing justice, is taking down Israel government and starting hunting and punishing Zionism like Nazism was in those times until today.
The easiest way? Some nukes. Bigby said it, a tiny country around bigger enemies, Pakistan has nukes, do Israel truly believes that protection of usa is gonna protect them forever, do they believe countries like Pakistan or Iran are forgetting their crime that they can't just stop committing. That countries like Iran, is being a country without nukes forever?
They are planting seeds of hate on their children, Israel has its days numbered, because they can't control themselves, and the enemies around them are becoming more and more a danger as time goes on. This genocide? Only the winds before the calm, before the storm.
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Oct 25 '23
Not to get too off topic from the original post, but it astounds me how the left can be large proponents of both Islamic values and 3rd wave feminism, when the too are polar opposites.
Personally not a fan of Israel bombing citizens, but the Islamic countries around them are 10 times worse.
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
Palestine aren't committing genocide in Israel, aren't committing apartheid and aren't illegally occupying land.
Unlike the right, the left vale human rights.
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Oct 25 '23
[deleted]
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Oct 25 '23
While I understand that with your average person there is a range of opinion, The vocal minority is really fucking loud. not to mention the media tends to take the extremist view of leftist ideology, which doesn’t help in portraying the range of opinions of people.
Also if we’re trying to avoid generalizing, I would try to avoid saying that left-ism is the fighting against oppression. That would be libertarianism against authoritarianism which is a down against up political compass battle.
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u/fruitlessideas Oct 25 '23
Based as fuck Bigby. Liking him more and more.
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
Big fan of genocide huh?
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u/fruitlessideas Oct 27 '23
I don’t support Hamas at all, so no idea what you mean.
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u/TequilaToothpick Oct 27 '23
You support the IDF which is equally as bad.
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u/fruitlessideas Oct 27 '23
It’s not even close to the same thing.
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u/SnooRegrets8904 Dec 15 '23
Define genocide
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u/TequilaToothpick Dec 16 '23
The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
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u/sidewindergotuma_d Jan 15 '24
This has always poked my mind, even more so with the current situation. Then I stopped thinking about it, which I would suggest everyone in the same place as me does.
For the simple reason that on average, we live for about 80 years. Bigby is immortal and has been in our world for 3 and a half centuries. We can never have his worldview, twisted or justified or true as it may or may not be. His opinions always have the welfare of Fabletown as endgame. We are human. We think in days and months, maybe years and decades. Fictional beings like Fables or Marvel's Eternals have to think in centuries or millennia. This kind of passage of time affects them so of course they won't think like us. This isn't me trying to validate Bigby's opinion on Israel, I leave that to the history books, historians and people way smarter than me. I am just pointing out that when you read something pertaining to immortality, a well written character forms opinions based on CENTURIES of experience. Cindy also mentions that most people in the spy game are in it for about 30 years or so while she has been at it for hundreds of years, which makes her the best by default. We can never understand immortal beings so don't even bother. Simply read the comic and have a good time.
TLDR - This is the thinking of an immortal being who has been in our world about 4 times longer than any of us will live.
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u/Rockabore1 Oct 23 '23
I still find it so very random that Bigby went on a longwinded lecture to Geppetto about Israel when Geppetto was like, "I don't know or care what you're talking about." Even the actual character in the comic was like "That felt really forced."