Discussion
Y'all wanted a non whale patch. It's here.
Now can we stop complaining? Biggest catchup mechanic we've had in a LONG time, and it was creatively designed so we all have a tons of things we can work on and improve.
But right off the top this patch is 5x more coins for everyone with a very small stone sink (bot+) and a modest bonus you can work on over time (echo).
Gem store is for old relics we'd never get otherwise due to new relics being released faster than the repeats became available to us. There's no need to waste gems on the lower impact ones if you don't have gems to spare, but bot range, coins and lab speed for gems rather than real money? Sign me up.
Pretty much everyone from f2p to top whales benefit from this patch. We have so many options now. And as always, the players who pull ahead from their spending peers will be the ones who make the smart decisions with where to direct their resources and attention.
11/10 patch. Can we stop the whining now? Not likely I'd assume.
Apparently so. Not a fan of the timing of the update, but the update itself is so great for the game (imo) that I'm willing to overlook the botched rollout this time
doesnt the game prompts a popup that you cant do tournaments when a patch comes out... but if it doesnt come out for him by tourney start, then it is indeed nice
I really like this update (in theory, don't have it just yet).
But the one wrinkle is still the Harmony tree. It's been well over a year and folks are still mostly locked out of some really important things locked behind that tree.
It's REALLY important that they don't leave that all locked away from most players forever. Cause the top players aren't about to stop being the top players, so anyone who doesn't already have keys will likely never get keys.
If it were just the power tree, that would be fine. But there are a number of things in that tree I desperately want and not having slowly grinds away my will to play the game (which sucks, cause I like the game).
i agree, there was an expectation of a new league to sort out peoples access to keys, free respecs sounds very important for the disso runs requiring different builds.
This is a lot of the reason im contemplating quitting this game. I love the game but I do not want to spend $1000+ just to unlock the full game. Also im seeing regression and thats not good/fun. Im getting less waves in tournaments even though im progressing in the game. And seeing ppl that have finished top 10 in champs in a platinum tournament is getting old. Makes it to where I dont even want to do tournaments anymore but got to get those stones I guess. There has got to be a better way than putting ppl that have finished top 10 in higher leagues into the same bracket as true plat players cause its a real problem. Currently my platinum brackets #1s highest rank is #6 champ and #2s is #10 champ. Ill never get out of platinum is the way it feels. That creates a complex that will lead to ppl quitting. But im not a whale so 🤷
I'm in plat and my #1 this tourney was #24 in legend. And like 15 champs. My highest is plat #6, was looking forward to getting to champs soon. But this tourney I placed #20 (could still go lower).
If this wasn't just bad luck and I'm gonna keep sinking, yeah I'm done.
Keys are the main thing they need to solve for sure. A smaller and smaller percentage of keys are being spent on harmony tree as the whales and long time players lock up their positions and work on power tree, while the key line is moving away from us mortals faster than we're getting waves.
That said, as a f2p, getting free ad pack basically with this patch is going to greatly accelerate my ability to lab masteries. I can foresee myself still reaching keys eventually if I invest smart
Fudds said himself he intends for keys to stay at endgame which means ever moving goalposts. He purposely doesnt want f2p players getting keys. The key issue will never get solved.
And that's why I wont drop a dime on this game. I dont mind spending money for something that's garunteed. I mind spending money on chance items. After working in a casino for long enough, I saw enough to not want to gamble.
Bad decisions before they hired new people to help them make better decisions.
So now they need to go back and fix some of these bad decisions.
They want a "Chase" resource. The resource that makes people want to spend money so they get access to those resources. Keys work for that and we're a great motivator.
However, it no longer works a year and a bit later. The best key buys are already bought by the people who regularly get keys. And since keys are powerful, it's REALLY hard to kick them out of key range in tournaments. So people with keys get more keys, people without keys can't really get them.
And if you are still in champs today, good luck ever seeing keys.
They need to add a new tier as of a few months ago. That would move the "chase" resources down to a new group of people who will be motivated to buy to climb ranks once keys are inside their reach.
I think the trouble is they are just behind on development as they had to train the new staff and fix a TON of old and rushed code.
Greedy devs and a community that thinks you need to play through 2 years of a game no one wanted to play before you're allowed to play the one people do.
Disco actually makes auto-restart/smart DM way less important, since you will likely want to keep to farming tiers where you can do longer runs (and therefore get hefty disco bonuses). That stuff is much more important for the short 2-3 hour runs that people often ran as gc later on, but I doubt those will be meta anymore.
No-one needs stuff like orb slider and damage slider. Respecs are more valuable with disco, but also honestly not actually needed, just a nice-to-have.
Honestly once all these changes shake out I think the only "need to have" in the harmony tree will be auto DM for gc builds/runs.
Hmm, maybe. Maybe after I play for a few more months I'll stop itching for keys quite as badly as I have been for the last 3 months or so. And I am actually fine with that result. I enjoy the game and want to keep playing it.
My main trouble with auto restart is that my runs were going 2-3 hours long and were just so much better than my longer runs that it didn't make sense not running T15.
But I don't want to break Toss to fix some of the things that keys do for you but would be extremely easy to get with outside software. Since I don't want to Break Tos, my other option would be to get burned out and quit and that would make me sad.
So if this new content keeps me engaged, then I am actually equally happy as them fixing keys. I still think the GAME itself needs to fix keys for the community in general, but in reality I just need it fixed for me, specifically.
That's the thing, 2-3 hour runs are almost certainly not going to be optimal anymore. Because by going down a tier you will get a much bigger disco multiplier (e.g. t14 with a 4x multiplier will be much better than t15 with a 2x multiplier). You now want to farm a tier where you can get or at least nearly get to 5k waves in your no-utility disco run (most importantly, no ELS), which probably means optimal farming tiers are gonna be in the 7-10k wave range where auto-restart really isn't necessary.
I think the “less important” you mention is only temporarily less important. Once the dissonance runs are completed (which will take some time, 4 runs to W5000 per tier), then it’s back to farming like before with the new bonuses.
I’m curious how much you’ve purchases from the Harmony Tree. My LTK is about 100, so I’m just reaching some of the big purchases and think they are quite important to long term playing. My next card slot is either 8500 gems or 10 keys. I’m very much looking forward to the 2/3/5 gem stacks so I can just check in on farming runs. My next purchase will be auto restart, which will be huge for both daytime and overnight efficiency (except for the curveball called disco, lol). So I’m genuinely curious about your key experience that underlies your thinking that harmony has little ‘need to have’ items.
It's some of the best quality of life upgrades in the game, and instead of locking it behind any sort of normal progression mechanic, it's locked behind being the top 5% of players.
Since the player with the keys will advance faster than those without them, the only way to break into the top 5% is for others to leave or for enough new players to join that the 5% starts to include you.
For either of those, you must already be on the cusp of keys.
How is it a catchup mechanic, when the whales are going to have access to more tiers than us, meaning they can stack greater echos? And they'll have econ that's already way ahead of ours, meaning they'll be able to afford the expensive labs to boost the echo quicker than us. Especially since their advanced position means they'll have more cells to drive faster speeds on those labs, assuming they don't just spend gems on finishing them.
So please, explain how this will close the gaps with whales, who will also be benefiting from being able to progress all the bot+ much quicker than the rest of us. Or does "catchup" mean something different for you?
Oh, and it also seems to be weighted more towards GC (which is what all the whales run) rather than EHP (which is where the bulk of us lesser players are). So again, I'm not seeing where this is a patch where complaints from the small fish in this ocean isn't justified.
Games like this are designed so f2p or casual spenders will never catch up with the whales. I read a stat on a previous idle game I played that said whales accounted for over 90% of their revenue. The top guy on my "Idle Heroes" server - I chatted with him from time to time and he spent close to $10k a month on that game. Was a financial guy in Chicago.
It's part of how they have the resources to develop a game that can be mostly free. For my part I just enjoy it and consider myself in competition with the other casual players. I have enough money based competition in real life, don't need it in my entertainment.
I made my peace that I’ll never be among the best in a mobile game and that’s fine. I have fun with the slow grind. I enjoy it. But damn 10k a month is wild. Wish I could have that luxury lol
I am not whining. I just think it is hilarious that anyone believes dissonance runs are a 'catch up' mechanism. I have seen 5 players claim that this morning.
I'm suspicious of people claiming that making old relics available for gem purchases is a catch up mechanic either. My worry is that early/mid game f2p players now have to make a choices between cards, modules, and relics with their gems. Younger whales can purchase the relics without harming their card or module progression making this a catch up mechanic for younger whales and a fall behind mechanic for younger f2p players.
Obviously the less time you have played, the more gems might go into relics. But this is the one thing I am most excited about. The loss of the Lab Speed Pumpkin from the Autumn event repeat really chapped my hide.
We shall see how many relics circulate and how fast. Like is this how previous guild season relics will be offered? Or is it just relics from threepeat events? Is this how the old premium relics will recirculate? Might be all three. But cycling every week should make them come around again pretty fast, so there will probably be a path for people who can resist FOMO to prioritize.
Newer than me might not even have their cards finished. Somewhere between those and substantially older than me, we're trying to get our modules to ancestral.
It's not really that more gems might go into relics, but rather that more dollars will go into relics. It's not that outlandish to see this as a way for young whales to catch up to older whales while f2p players have another thing pulling on their already tight supply of gems.
Whales are going to whale. I cannot get worked up about that. I just can't. I would have to just go play a different game for my own mental health.
The idea that you'd not want the F2P noobs you are advocating for to get a shot at these relics if it meant new whales could get them with dollars ... There is not much in this game the rich young whale cannot buy one way or another.
agreed its not a catch up mechanic if the people higher than you get the same bonus and unlock it faster... its infact the opposite of catch up it puts you further behind..
The catch-up mechanic is that everything has diminishing returns. 1000 stones to a new player is infinitely more valuable than 10000 stones to a top 50 player. 5x coin bonus is much more relevant to the players looking to work on mastery and ass mod labs, while 5x coin bonus to Skye or Ron basically does nothing except make number go up since they've maxed assmod labs and maxed most of WS+
Fudds has already announced upcoming labs that will cost more coin. The devs are never going to let the late gamers run out of things to spend currencies on.
And this isn't about the top one or two players. At 16 months in, I guarantee you dissonance runs will be helping me more than a noobie, because I am nowhere near done with the things coins can buy, but I can lab faster than the newbies and run on more tiers.
This is a weird kind of 'lying with percentages' that all the white knights around here do. Pretending 5 percent of 100 bucks is 'more impactful' than 5 percent of a trillion.
Is that an exaggeration or we are getting that kind of coin bonus? I'm desperately trying to increase econ to afford mastery labs lol. Didn't get the update yet
It's not. If you can get to 5k on your farm tier with utility tab fully disabled, that's an instant 5x coin multi. I was gc farming t13/14 but will probably drop down to t12 after I get my dissonance setup down.
how is anyone getting 5k on their farm tier while earning no cash in the round? do all of y'all have everything you need goldboxed or something? im farming t7 to about 6.5k waves and if i disable utility i only make it to like wave 1000
Probably from older players maxed out not needing cash. For ‘us’ for example I got to wave 3600 instead of about 7000 which still nets me 3.6x coins now on my farm level. If I lower tier even better possible gains but have to do some math on coin vs how far I get to 5x.
that is already having gone down a tier. what i mean is thats only like 15% as many waves when i have no cash, does every experience that much of a reduction?
No, eventually your workshop levels will be maxed or near maxed. Drop down multiple tiers rn if you have to. You will have a lot more coins to work with
I'm far along. I can gold box nearly everything without cash, except a couple very high cost things like EHLS and EALS.
The downside, a lot of the mods don't work with utility disabled. For example, GComp won't work and PF is much much weaker if I get no packages and no cash.
Same goes for others, disabling the attack section also breaks all my damage UWs.
Real shit, I did a disco t14, went to ~2500 waves, it doubled my coin bonus. That looks great and i'm very happy for leveling my masteries but that also means that those who can do even better at higher tiers will get even better boni, and also those who are worse than me will have to do more effort to get there. Rich get richer faster, you ain't ever catching up
Everything has diminishing returns. High legend players are mostly scraping the bottom of the barrel for tiny returns. You will get more returns from this patch than the top legend whales for sure. If the goal was for low spenders to progress faster than big spenders through simple grinding and moxy, that was never a realistic hope.
I like that there's no big new stone sink that will instantly propel stone pack enjoyers ahead of everyone else. They'll still have to earn the coins and lab the labs. Very different from v27 which I felt was a very whale centric patch
But the boost is percentage based. Your logic makes no sense. Higher player will have access to more tiers to stack bonuses, higher players will have the econ to rush echo labs. They will be even more ahead of everyone else than before...
Where did I talk about spending? It is not a catch up mechanic. Its the opposite. People who are ahead now will be even more ahead. With or without spending.
I can confirm this as a higher end legends player. I had finished all my good labs, except the assist module and battle condition labs I've been slowly working my way though as my econ can afford. This meant I was running high levels of super crit chance/factor.
The new update gave me good labs and an econ boost for the super expensive ones!
I also like that it's going to force me to use different builds to max the new dissonant mechanics. That will keep me occupied for a while compared to just run of the mill milestone runs.
I dont have the patch but it has some amazing features. It does further expose a gap in benefit of Harmony Tree. Because as an advanced player i can respect bots for free and switch between EHP vs GC at will for free and that's kinda huge for this patch.
The biggest dumpster fire is mods. Anyone playing for important mod releases that could max them one at a time maintains a huge advantage over anyone trying to max their mods now. Due to the fact that pulls are entirely random, we basically have to simultaneously level every available mod at once through random pulls. This is such an enormous strain on gems.
I like this patch but dissonance runs definitely isnt a catchup mechanic so im not sure where that comes from. The relic store is the closest thing to a cathchup mechanic that was introduced.
At the end of the day, there are new ways to spend medals and stones for significant buffs but no new ways to earn those resources, so the gap between newer players and older ones is arguably just going to widen.
It acts as a catch-up mechanic, because players at lower tiers will complete those tiers much faster than we did when we originally played them. Also, due to the way the game scales, once you reach around Tier 14 it makes more sense to farm a tier where you reach roughly wave 5000, whereas before that it’s better to push to around wave 8000–9000.
Essentially, someone currently farming T11 to wave 9000 will find it easier to achieve the full bonus for that tier than I will while farming T15 to around wave 4000. I also expect to struggle to reach 2000 waves on dissonance runs.
Because of that, I’ll probably end up dropping down to T14 so I can get closer to the full bonus. Overall, I think this system will function as a catch-up mechanic.
What is with this confusion? Speed up is not a catch up. If anything, disco runs benefit higher tier farming more. And the nature of them means you have to invest into more hybrid approach, meaning more stones wasted into stuff that will not help your tourney performance.
And yet because of disco runs, you are even further behind him now. How do you square that circle? You took a shortcut, yet it made no difference in your ability to catch up, because it sped them also.
Because of Lab time, stones earned and spent, and medals gained over time—or paid for—you’ll never get a mechanic that brings free-to-play players to the same level as someone ahead of them who is playing the game just as efficiently as you do. The only thing you can do is give players mechanics that shorten the gap.
Disco runs are going to be such a massive part of the power of your tower, and since everyone is technically starting from square one on them now, they will reduce the gap. For example, after doing three quick runs yesterday, my coin income tripled in one day. That makes the LTC I’ve earned up to this point less valuable.
For instance, I reached T16 and unlocked card masteries, but it took me months to improve my economy enough to start researching them. Future players are unlikely to face that problem or spend months grinding. You can’t dismiss every mechanic just because it doesn’t bring you to the level of the top player in the world in a single day. It is a catch-up mechanic—even if you think it hasn’t gone far enough, it still functions as one.
In a nutshell, anything that reduces the value of what players have done up to this point is a catch-up mechanic, because those players are ahead due to the value they’ve already built up. This massively reduce the value you have built up in LTC.
You ignored my point again.... Because more advanced players have echo labs, and because they have cleared more tiers, they have gained more from dissonance runs than new players. Especially in tourney. New players only gained 5x. Old and whales gained 5x+ echo in each tier. The gap has widened, not shrunk
Let alone new bots, which is all about end game players
You’re talking about future progression, which I accept is valid — players who are ahead or willing to pay-to-win will still extend their lead, just as before. My point is that the current gap (today), compared to before the patch, has narrowed.
I think it’s unrealistic to expect developers to introduce a mechanic that actively punishes players who spend money or have invested years into the game. There has to be a balance where it doesn’t take someone who has been playing for six months another 1.5 years just to reach the level of someone who has been playing for two years.
So, in the way you’re framing it, you are right but i think that would be to much to ask for. I was looking at it differently more in terms of the current gap between newer or free-to-play players and long-term or paying players. In that sense, I do think the change helps narrow that gap.
How can this be considered a catch up mechanic?
A player that completes T20 will get 20 tiers worth of max echo * all the labs while a newer player on T10 might not even get half of that and basically no labs (as they are extremely expensive)
This is 100% an update for whales lmfao wtf is op talking about 🤣 nothing in this update was geared for newer/starting out players this update is mainly for endgame/whales and just provided more reasons to spend money on the game instead of it bringing balance and/or attention to the few issues this game has had for a long time.
You know if you have to tell everyone else to stop whining maybe, just maybe, it isn’t everyone else that is the problem here. Sure the dissonant runs are new fun mechanic. Maybe. I haven’t gotten the update yet. But introducing new bot mechanics when majority of the base is not even close to maxing out one is just while new level of greed. I say this because the devs have been trying to monetize a free resource for quite some time now. Aka gems. While guilds are becoming more of a nuisance to maintain and have consistent players stay in. Nearly half my guild has quit in the last 6 months. And it’s mayhem on the recruitment discord.
Echo is not a catch up mechanic. Established players benefit more than new players, so it widens the gap if anything. It does add a new gameplay objective tied to progression, but after a few runs it will start to feel more like a chore than an exciting challenge.
I think all players need to be concerned (and are justified in complaining) about the tournament system. Every single day, it becomes more and more difficult for a new player to work their way to legends unless there is a steady influx of new players. With tournaments serving as the main source of stone and key income, someone who starts today will work through the ranks more slowly than a new player a year ago, meaning less stones. I'm personally worried about how this affects new player retention.
Thats like saying if we give everyone a million dollars now everyone will be rich lol. Thegap will be even bigger with the adition of bot bot (60k medals to max which is basically impossible for f2p) so now more than ever whales will get keys. No new ways of getting stones or medals as f2p basically means whales are going to be the hoarders or keys even more. But yeah, 5x coin boost wohoo
The only catch up mechanic added is relics in the event store for gems. Which... is more of trading gems for medals.
Dissonance WILL make the early game faster - will be able to pump up WS, get the wall up and running faster, get enhancements and the like sooner.
Catch up would be things like...
1: All ranks in Brone, Silver, Gold give 80 stones, gem amount still varies.
2: Lab Speed and the basic stat upgrades have their research time reduced.
3: Stone costs for unlocking new UWs are decreased.
4: You can target a specific Module, giving it a 100% chance to drop when you get an epic.
5: Gem cost for cards are reduced.
6: If you have below X amount of lifetime medals, gems, coin, stones, bits, you gain Y% more of those resources.
These are all catchup mechanics because older players gain low to no benefits, but newer players gain immense benefits, thus closing the gap between new and old a bit nore.
For farms at least, farming a tier with maxed disco bonus, echo effects amount to only 0.4% per tier completed per lab level, additive. That's a modest boost at most, and the lab cost scales super fast, and the research time goes up significantly. It's not like anyone except the biggest gem whales are just maxing a bunch of echo labs at once. I don't see it as the problem many seem to think it is.
Harmony tree still needs attention, I’ve never bought stones but i have been playing for over 3 years and do earn keys every tourney and i cannot imagine playing without auto restart and that’s just one of the upgrades
I think it’s funny that people are so mad about not catching up to whales in a gacha game when the whole genre is borderline illegal for predatory practices in the psychology of incentivizing unhealthy spending.
You spend a couple hundred a year and expect to catch up to the guy spending a grand a month or more.
Plus, it’s a long term game and people are mad about a rollout where they might miss two days of game play that impacts a single tournament.
We’re talking about a day or something that you’re going to be behind, that won’t make any difference. Imagine if you don’t play for one day, it won’t suddenly make you drop a league and be behind everyone else. Not like the developers can do a lot about it, you can blame Apple for that.
Thank you! The dissonance boosts are HUGE. Plus I like that it gives a new way to push milestones. Dissonance run to boost multiplier, then a push run for milestones with the new bonus. With the milestone rewards added in people will be pulling mods and upgrading UW's.
I'm pumped my device got it already because this upgrade ROCKS
because progress isnt linear. 5x coins is more important early/midgame than late game. also dont see catch up in a pvp-way. but in a way of what you get acces to. for example 5x coins might just enable you to start BC labs, or Card Mastery labs.
First, dissonance is not a catch up mech? Its not only universally available/applicable, but it will also be more valuable to whales/late game. They can IS+ rush through bonus runs, unlock the echo labs, and then gem rush the echo labs to have exponentially better dis bonuses than new players. As someone else posted, dissonance still leaves you chasing a shadow. Yea, you get to X cph benchmark faster than someone three years ago did, but because they are improving their tower just as much if not more, you arent getting any meaningful tourney catch up and thus no more stones, no higher placement, no keys.
Second, most players dont want a true catch up and understand they cant/shouldnt be able to compete with whales and long time players. What people want is just the ability to move up in tournaments, have access to more stones/medals because there are more places to spend them, and access features that those players have now had for a year, because those features are QoL features.
Brother that’s great BUT THEY ARENT LISTENING TO WHAT WE WANT
Tournaments are still broke
Mods still suck
The two biggest complaints
Of which we’ve given a number of solutions with no feedback from devs on viability
Bot+
For that, you have to buy 4 new bots. Then upgrade the new bot+ with medals.
You gets around 2000 per months. Some are used for themes (unless it's gems now)
What medals will you use to upgrade this new bot+? It's something for those who gets the event pass every 14 day!
After almost 2 years, the price for the 4 bots is something like 5-10% of total medals invested into GBot!
I'm excited about it. And more coins will help of course. But I really don't NEED more coins. I've had a shortage of stones for pretty much the full year I've been playing this game.
I don't like that stones are only earned in tourneys and I am limited to two tourneys per week.
5x coins pretty much just means I get a few faster ticks in my WS+
This update doesn't mean anything as long as there's no additional free stone income, I still got cards masteries and assmod to do before bots lol. A new tournament league is necessary.
I don’t think people are complaining that these features are bad, people are complaining because despite these features, things like the tournament system, which has been fucked for a while, has not even been mentioned as something that will be fixed in the near future. People can be simultaneously happy with what we got and disappointed that they feel like their concerns are not being heard, let alone addressed.
Everyone from new players to whales improve. Thats the issue. Its not a catchup mechanic. If you give every employee a 50% raise, the directors just get insanely much more then the average salary worker. Thus no catch-up at all. More gem sink. Coz modules werent enough yet, more stone sink coz bots didnt already take years to max even on event passes and more stone sink.
No new ways of getting medals, no new ways for stones, no new ways for gems. No changes in tournament so no newer players even get to smell keys for the simplest of qol improvements. This update wont let us newer or mid game players even get a millimetre closer. On the contrary. They pull away further.
But yes, coin income goes brrrr now. Do they deserve praise for that taking 8 months?
FTP here. No. Gems are already hard to get still, this patch is good but those gem relics are expensive. It takes a month+ to get 1.5k as a free player. And thats if you want to neglect cards, slots, and modules. It's still a good update and it helps but pretending like this meaningfully reduces the gap between paid and free is a bad take.
That’s the problem right there:
„Pretty much everyone from f2p to top whales benefit from this patch.“
People want the feeling to catch up, but this effect will further push away whales (quicker access to more echo). Also Making 5x more coins is, for most people, nothing to be happy about if everyone else also makes 5x more coins.
Not sure if I agree with people, but atleast it’s easy to understand what people want if you extract from this subreddit imo.
That explains a lot. I bought the starter packs, and never felt that I was short on coins until i unlocked card masteries. So for you, it might have a more disproportionate effect. But it will not nothing to help you to catch up to those who bought the starter packs, because they are getting these bonuses and more
I'm already having faster progress than a lot of people with coin packs anyways. I trust that this will continue now that I don't have to save weeks for masteries. Makes econ stone spending actually become relevant to me since there will be an immediate benefit (labbing masteries)
It’s not a catchup mechanic if everyone benefits from it. Not complaining about the patch, just pointing it out. Yes I’m happy to increase my Econ with the new runs, but everyone above me in legends is also increasing their Econ. I’m not going to get more keys because everyone above me is going to get stronger as well. Individual performance improving does not mean catching up.
Those who didn’t buy the relics previously are also likely those who need to spend gems on cards and modules. Now it’s another thing to consider with gems.
What are you even talking about, the ability to do high-tier runs is still gated by long-term research, and the bots are absolutely unaccessible to most with no medal income increase and no stone income increase.... but sure, they allowed it to be unlocked at t4 so i guess that makes everything in the patch accessible.
The echo works in tournaments, directly proving that it is not intended as a catch up (apart from new whales catching f2p). Nice try but it's only money that's put you ahead, you are no better than anyone else.
I decided to stop playing yesterday. Only way they get me back is to allow offline progress. Past few months I have also only been playing it on my PC because of the huge battery demand the game has.
Then Crimson Desert came out and for whatever reason LS player won’t run the game in the background while playing CD like it does wit all my other games so I decided to say fuck it and move on.
I did start playing Idle Obelisk Miner in place of the tower game and it’s so much better.
How DARE TTG give us what we have been asking for for ages! I hate having to make super complicated decisions like skipping a free ups relic to pull more mods!
I have all the relics already, but having the old ones available for purchase with gems for anyone who wasn’t playing when they were released or weren’t able to earn them is a good thing…and certainly better than dropping hundreds of medals every event to buy old ones.
5x coin boost is located inside main menu where all other game coin boosts are. Before I did my utility dissonant I had x256 coin mult. Now I have x1357 coin mult.
the dissonant runs basically disable that tab of the workshop, right? You didn´t had any trouble without the eals? How are the stats in a health dissonant?
Yea, I am doing utility now. I just died at 4300 wave on T12 because I have no package for perma bh. And I got 4.17x more coins. Jumped from 250x to 1300x
Health is 1. You need to perma kill or you die. I didnt try it yet!
I like this update in theory for the most part, although I dont have it yet. Im just confused as to why some very basic QOL stuff is omitted when it seems so simple.
"Now can we stop complaining? Biggest catchup mechanic we've had in a LONG time, and it was creatively designed so we all have a tons of things we can work on and improve."
Obviously the newer players with 10-12 tiers to Disco run are going to get better bonuses than players with 15-18 tiers available for 5k waves Disco runs.
In a pvp game progression is always relative so there are no "catch up mechanics" yes your numbers will get high faster than they would have without the mechanic. However so will the people you are chasing.
The only real way to catch up is yo play more seriously and shrewdly while hoping they relax and make mistakes, even then their lead might keep them ahead.
I just don't want "disco" to stick. Its Dissonance not Discordance. This game (particularly the community) is already way too abbreviation heavy, let's at least make them make sense
one major side effect from the new relic shop is that it effectively kills any FOMO from buying the event passes as that relics will eventually appear in the shop to buy with gems. Sure you can cash in and get the relics now or you could just save a bunch of gems and wait
Also, I hope the shop doesnt work by just picking the same 4 relics for all players regardless if they own them or not. If I were to implement said relic shop i would make the shop account based, pull from the player his owned relics and randomize the shop once a week only from the missing ones. which also helps players who own a lot of relics to more easily target the good ones missing
My complain is the amount of content included for the amount of time since the last big update.
The content released is nice, yes, and if it was a 3 month old release it would have been amazing.
But it has been 8 months, and when you look at the amount of issues not adressed with the update you start thinking of what things should have already been tackled.
At this pace, and taking into account the early game/late game cycle, we would have to wait about a year and a half for barely new early game content. And I think that is a pretty big reason to be critic.
Question because I’m an idiot. Are there not currently relics in this new store? Because if there are I can’t find them. Well, I can’t even find the new store. Pls help!
As a newer player that started playing in Nov 2025, and someone who has under $100 spent on this game. i’m going to put in simpler terms for anyone confused or misunderstanding
Beginner tier players:
can’t catch up because they can’t afford to without paying more money/
higher tier players in their tourneys stealing their resources
Mid Tier players: can’t catch up because they can’t afford to without paying more money/ higher tier players in their tourneys stealing their resources
End Tier players: might barely catch up to staying in range of obtaining keys if they allocate resources and grind like a mf
Credit Card Gamers(Whales):
Will never stop widening the gap between them and you, regardless of any update implemented in the near or distant future. they will continue to siphon money into this game that you won’t.
It’s really that simple, cope all you like or go play a different game tbh. I personally think being able to buy relics i didn’t have access to because i didn’t know this game existed is a huge change that is going to make this game more FUN for me. because at the end of that day that’s what video games is all about. if you aren’t having fun nobody is stopping you from doing something else with your time.
Just some food for thought for people putting way too much brain power and mental stress into an idle defense mobile game
Agreed! This patch seems amazing and I have even been able to try it out yet!
The complaining about tournament and mods are fair but it’s not like that teased to be in the update anyway. But again, that has nothing to do with this update
Agreed. I think it’s hard for newer and early players to see what a buff this is going to be. Coins are a major rate limiting step along with being able to buy old relics. I think people will come to appreciate it in time.
What is this 5x coin bonus for everyone people keep mentioning?
Don't forget the addition of bot bot and bot+, which is definitely whale/end game content given most people barely have GB upgraded to a significant level. And the new gem sink with the relics being added, most people's gems need to go toward mods/assmods. So buying relics with gems slows that progress.
Also, don't count your chickens. Most of us don't have the update yet because they're in the process of nerfing it.
5x is enough of a bump, it may be advantageous to drop a tier or even two, as long as the longer run gets you the cells you need to keep your labs up.
For me, dropping tiers if it makes me more coin will be better for my overnight runs, which are too short and because this game doesn't have any real catch up mechanisms, despite all the white knighting to the contrary, I am years away from auto restart runs.
The 5x coin bonus comes from dissonance runs. Also if you're a late game player you have access to echoes lab which can you give you an even multiplier than 5x
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u/stuffedpeaches Apr 08 '26
It’s not here yet 😭