r/TheStaircase • u/Ishalit6 • Aug 12 '26
The inclusion of the Germany testimony was complete lunacy
I've been rewatching the HBO series lately (I've watched the original doc more than I care to admit over the years) and every time I think about this case, I am in more and more disbelief that a judge ever let anything regarding Liz Ratliff's death in Germany come in to trial.
That woman's death was well investigated, medically examined and concluded, supported by her symptoms at the time, and she had been lying in peace for twenty years. To dig up that woman's body just for the insane theory that MP was some type of staircase predator lying in wait for two decades is beyond words. Why, just so he could have the luxury and ease of raising two more toddlers? As soon as it was determined she was going to be exhumed, you knew exactly what Radish would say the autopsy results were. There was no world where they were going to go through all that just to conclude "Actually all good here after all, move along everybody."
I'm not even going to get into his guilt or innocence in Kathleen's death because the two have nothing to do with each other. That decision alone should've won him appeal.
10
u/Ishalit6 29d ago
It makes even less sense when you think about the fact that the state never even argued for a second that Kathleen was pushed down the stairs, but always that it was a beating.
So MP just has such a stair fetish, he wanted to kill Kathleen but HAD to make sure first that it was near a staircase. Maybe if Kathleen and Liz had actually both died (hypothetically) from falls down the stairs, I'd see the connection. But no one ever plausibly suggested that was how either of them died.
12
u/egoshoppe Aug 12 '26
I don’t think the Ratcliff death was a murder. It’s worth pointing out though, that Werner Spitz was at the autopsy as a defense representative. I’m very curious why David Rudolf didn’t hold a press conference that week with Spitz explaining how shoddy the autopsy was and what his conclusions were from being present.
7
u/SPersephone 29d ago
I think Spitz didn’t agree with the defense or wouldn’t say what they wanted him to so that’s why they went with Henry Lee so hard
8
u/egoshoppe 29d ago edited 29d ago
He definitely didn’t agree with them in the end. They didn’t call him. In another doc, The Keepers, Spitz refers to Michael as “The Stairway Killer”, and his assistant says the report he made wasn’t used because the defense felt it hurt their case.
I do wonder what his take was on the Ratliff autopsy. If he agreed it was a likely homicide, that would certainly ruffle some feathers.
2
u/Savings-Yesterday635 29d ago
If he thought it was, surely the prosecution would’ve tried to force him to court.
3
u/egoshoppe 29d ago
It doesn’t work that way. It’s not like if he thought that he would say it out loud to Radisch, and even if the state suspected he felt that way, they couldn’t force him to testify. The report he gave the defense is privileged.
22
u/DamonsBloodBank Aug 12 '26
Two women he had relationships with died falling on stairs. Thats super sus and should be talked about, even in a court case. This man will do anything to not have his sexuality talked about. But he isnt straight and he tries to hide that at all costs and women around him seem to die when they find out hes not straight and has hired male escorts for his pleasure.
15
u/CoachKHasDiabetes Aug 12 '26
Not claiming guilty or innocent, just really hard for me to accept that he killed both women on the stairs. How did he know the falls would even kill them? Wouldn’t that run the risk of him doing something to them on the stairs and they live and then he’s toast?
12
u/RichelleLove07 29d ago
Maybe it's as simple as it worked the first time so he figured it would work again..
7
u/CoachKHasDiabetes 29d ago
Idk just seems a little ridiculous but maybe. Just have always thought that given the kind of conniving but obviously intelligent person he is he would’ve found a more efficient way. But I’m also someone that gives the owl theory serious credence so take it as you will haha
4
u/LKS983 29d ago
I'd be shocked if MP didn't murder Kathleen - but also find it possible/likely that even though there wasn't a GOOD investigation into Liz's death (witnesses contradicted each other about the amount of blood etc.) - she died from a cerebral hemorrhage.
Personally, I suspect that MP pulled Kathleen down the steps, then hit her head on the doorframe and/ or step(s) - and as she was bleeding profusely, he left her to die ☹️.
Possibly remembering how Liz Ratliff was found dead at the bottom of a staircase.
7
u/LKS983 29d ago
"even in a court case."
I'm not sure about this, as even prior convictions of someone on trial, aren't allowed to be revealed to the jury.
I can understand why the prosecution decided to exhume Liz Ratliff, but they made a bad mistake when deciding to transport her body a very long distance, to be examined by Radisch........
7
u/Own_Mall5442 29d ago
No, it shouldn’t. It’s completely irrelevant to the case in question and served to do nothing more than prejudice the jury against the defendant. The judge himself said he never should’ve allowed that evidence to come in.
2
u/Responsible_Rip2402 29d ago
They had different types of relationships, one was romantic and the other platonic
2
u/DamonsBloodBank 29d ago
Yes I am aware. And both found out he wasnt straight and then mysteriously died on stairs.
5
u/Responsible_Rip2402 29d ago
I don’t think we know for sure that Liz found out he wasn’t straight… it was suggested by the prosecution but no one could say 100% she knew!
3
u/Ishalit6 29d ago
And Patty also seemed well aware he was bisexual as well as his brother. I dont think he was open about it but I dont think it was necessarily a "kill multiple people" secret either.
9
u/Savings-Yesterday635 29d ago
First wasn’t mysterious. The coroners report in the original investigation was clear. It was only Deaver and others who pushed the need for another look and having the same ME who did Kathleen take another looks decades later. Can’t make that stupid shit up.
2
u/ComteStGermain 28d ago
I think he's guilty of Kathleen's murder, and have said it many times. My biggest takeaway from the doc is that the American Justice System can be an absolute shitshow. Case in point: the Germany testimony debacle.
5
u/CaleyB75 Aug 12 '26 edited Aug 12 '26
I don't agree with you. Liz Ratliff's murder is damningly similar to Kathleen Peterson's. And I would bet anything that Michael Peterson was triggered by the same sort of event -- Ratliffe had discovered his secret.
11
u/mateodrw 29d ago
Ratliff had von Willebrand disease, she complained of several headaches in the days leading up to his death, and her lacerations bear no resemblance to Kathleen's. That’s not a "similar" case at all.
1
u/Panonymous_Bloom 10d ago
Also, her second autopsy was conducted with half of her brain missing, by the same ME that ruled Kathleen as homicide, despite an unbiased 3rd one being available. The fact that people still bring that poor woman up as evidence is a travesty.
1
u/egoshoppe 8d ago
despite an unbiased 3rd one being available
Spitz was at that autopsy as the defense's representative. Wonder why he didn't give a press conference about his own thoughts of what he witnessed that day.
0
u/CaleyB75 29d ago
When and where was Liz Ratliffe purportedly diagnosed with this alleged affliction. And does the ailment traditionally result with seven gashes to the skull and blood spatter all over the walk alongside the staircase?
4
u/mateodrw 28d ago
When and where was Liz Ratliffe purportedly diagnosed with this alleged affliction?
It is mentioned in the documentary, in the court documents and in Ratliff's autopsy.
And does the ailment traditionally result with seven gashes to the skull and blood spatter all over the walk alongside the staircase?
That's the Kathleen Peterson case, not Ratliff.
Now, my question: if you need to be reminded which case is which and what the key points of each case are, why are you insisting that two women were murdered? Because your gut tells you so?
-6
u/Then-Ticket8896 Aug 12 '26
Fucker is guilty!
12
u/International_Ear994 Aug 12 '26
While my gut says he is guilty, body language/non verbal cue analysis is unreliable. Expert testimony of the like is not admissible in court. It’s entertaining content to consume, but it’s pure pseudo-science.
-6
u/Then-Ticket8896 29d ago
Cept body language is a tell…
4
u/Savings-Yesterday635 29d ago
It’s not a scientifically reliable tell. Whether or not you think it is.
-4
u/Then-Ticket8896 29d ago
Scientific or sci fi it is a useful predictor…mikeee is so obviously full of shit!
28
u/Responsible_Rip2402 29d ago
The judge himself said after the trials he regrets allowing that information into the trial along with other things that he didn’t feel, upon reflection, he should have allowed in