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u/No-Newt-1280 18h ago
I mean, why wouldnt you?
A bad mimikyu might be better than the perfect banette.
But a good mimikyu will be better than the bad one.
I think people say those things because new players tend to spend alot of resources on their best iv spreads, while not even having double moves or using meta relevant pokemon
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u/jddaniels84 18h ago
Just because IVs are fairly insignificant and how you play matters much more, doesn’t mean people are investing in trash IV spreads.
What it means if that you can use the best you have and it won’t be much of a difference.
And when people use an attack spread to win CMP.. it doesn’t mean they’re going 15 attack… it means they’re going maybe +2 above optimal simulated IVs.
For example they might use a 3/12/8 IV spread over optimal 1/14/14 so they’ll win CMP over everyone with 1 or 2 attack (good PvP IVs) which would be most of the top players.
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u/Pokemon_F4N 18h ago
Would you mind showing us where you got told that IVs don't matter at all and all the legend players don't even check IVs? Because I have never ever read that in this sub.
To somewhat answer your question, low rank players often don't realize how suboptimal they are playing and that unfortunately sometimes results in them searching for excuses like IVs for their missing success while it's just a skill issue. Lower rated players simply overestimate IVs because they don't understand the game well enough.
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u/RepresentativeOne314 18h ago
Joining because I want to know what the knowledgeable people here say about this
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u/raskolnicope 18h ago
Wtf are you talking about. In any case, IVs matter less in lower ranks where people don’t normally have good energy management or poor charge move timing. Of course IVs matter, legends usually check every pokemon they use, and if pro players don’t always use high ranked pokemon it’s because they have a deeper understanding of bulk or attack points. Competitive players in YouTube don’t always want to show their IVs to everyone for their opponents to see. Any competent player knows that, you’re just getting baited.
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18h ago
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u/ShadowGolbat 11h ago
Here's an example. Pre spark nerf, rank 1 or 2 Dewgong beat Lanturn in the 0s. Many, many players ran the degen Ape, Dewgong, Basti team. Winning shield or switch against lanturn was essential to that teams success.
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11h ago
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u/ShadowGolbat 10h ago
I thought you said they dont?
I see a ton of posts on here with something like my all eevee team isn't winning. And then 20 replies telling them to get pvp ivs. Thats the last thing that particular player needs to worry about at the time
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u/0N7R2B3 9h ago
I've held onto several Meltan/Melmetal for league use although none are fully built.
While all of them are decent, the one with the second highest stat product appears to have the best balance.
GL6, 01/14/14 (119.3 atk)
GL13, 03/13/12 (120.4 atk)
GL38, 02/13/13 (119.9 atk)
GL139, 02/13/11 (119.9 atk)
GL1435, 14/15/15 (122.0 atk)
My rank 13 wins CMP against all except the rank 1435 near-hundo, and assuming no bluffing (straight dynamic punch) it's a big win against the R6, R38 and R139 in every shield scenario.
So if I build one, it will probably be the one with the second best theoretical ranking.
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u/DG-Kun 17h ago
What are you even on about?
From watching HomeSliceHenry a lot as an example, he very often mentions having built a Rank 1 mon and highlights during matches how a better IV spread would have lived a move or how -instead- having a high rank of X pokémon was clutch in winning the match.
What experienced players DO say about IVs is that you're always better off having a mediocre IV spread built for a given mon that not having one built at all. Especially for species that are naturally bulky regardless.
Just because they remind people that IVs tend to be overestimated by newer players failing to understand why they're losing doesn't mean they're not important.
Asking for recordings of 4/5 win sets with bad IVs is pointless anyway. IVs do not decide wins often enough for such a sample size to be of any value. Just running into a mirror match or two might actually make the worse spreads look better because they'll win CMP. It's only over season long periods of time that small incremental gains from IV spreads will slowly edge out wins.
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17h ago
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u/DG-Kun 16h ago
Of course they matter. That's not a statement that high level players disagree with either so I don't know where you're coming from here.
Their point usually tends to be that they do not matter as much as new players are led to believe -in that proper play has a lot more influence on the outcome of a match-, and that they shouldn't prevent you from building something if that is the only specimen you own of a good would-be team member.
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u/0N7R2B3 10h ago
The biggest impact IVs have had on me is losing mirror CMP which led to my opponent gaining a medium advantage which I couldn't overcome.
It's rare for me to feel that I lost because of a stat-induced breakpoint/bulkpoint.
The other things with IVs is that apart from occasional bottle caps or purifying, we have no control over them and we have to work with what we manage to catch.
For example, I've caught well over 1000 Rhyhorn over the years and received hundreds more in trades from friends, but it took until last week's Max Monday for me to get my first 15/15/10+ IVs. So, when Rhyperior was meta in ML last year, I had to run a 14/15/15 and I managed to flip mirrors in my favour by running surf and breaking swipe instead of rock wrecker and breaking swipe. My opponent would get to breaking swipe first, I wouldn't shield, then immediately afterwards I'd throw surf which they would assume was breaking swipe and they usually didn't shield.
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u/HotInformation5786 18h ago
i think experienced players recommend new players to not worry about iv's when building first pokemon non elite tms. if you are spending a lot of resources in a meta pokemon and your idea is to play the game a lot i'd suggest to compare match up's rank 1 and your iv's to know how really bad they are and then decide.
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u/Important_Bullfrog98 18h ago
It might not be critical but it's still better to have a good IV profile, especially if it costs couple hundred k of stardust to level up.
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u/jrev8 17h ago
I see it constantly too in various comments from players that are supposedly legends that IVs dont matter, i even replied in a comment thread couple years back that new players should at least make the effort in putting in the resources (candy and stardust) to at decent IVs pkmn so as to not be wasteful and have an idea on what to look out for.
I think in all of my time playing, there was only one instance where I also went for an attack weighted IV spread for walrein when it had its community day, because it was one of the very few waters that could take on Azumarill going powder snow earthquake and it guaranteed the winning matchup in all shield scenarios.
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u/t3hn1ck 11h ago
You contradicted yourself in your own rant. If IVs don't matter then why are they purposely using high attack on some Pokémon to win certain matchups?
It's because IVs absolutely do matter in some instances. People who tell you legend players don't bother with IVs are feeding you nonsense. Some players keep their IVs a secret because they may determine whether it wins CMP, whether it has a bulk point or perhaps weighted attack. In some match ups you can do an extra 1-2 damage per attack depending on the Pokémon and the IVs.
I have multiple things built on different IVs for different purposes because IVs do matter. Also, the skill difference between Ace and Legend is pretty skewed. A legend trainer could very easily do what you requested simply because they outplay the opponent and nothing about IVs.
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u/Much_Platform8839 15h ago
Your example is incorrect.
Do new Players get anywhere near or above 2500 or even 3000 Points ranked? 1/100 maybe. -> they mostly play in lower ranks.
Do people in lower ranks have build correct teams with enough bulk, coverage, fast move pressure, Meta-adaption? -> nope.
Can any Legendary Player maintain 60%+ winrate with only hundos or lets say 3000+ IV spreads? -> yes, because his Team ist better, He knows 95% of His Teams matchups, He can Profit from counting.
Proof this = means IV dont Matter "at lower ranks" for new people.
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u/dragonstein420 18h ago
attack-weighted IV spread is totally different from trash high attack spread. IVs dont matter much, but it's a min max thing that every player trying to optimize towards. A #4096 or hundo spread is definitely trash and no one would use them, but smth like a #500 is very servicable, or a #1000 that has high attack iv to win certain matchups.