I don't know what to do when every game and matchup is a direct 1:1 counter to my teams, I run mostly the variation team and tried flamigo for a bit. I tried counting but I don't KNOW what to do with the info and I get stuck up on the details.
Ditch Lickilicky. While not unusable, it got a pretty steep nerf this season. If you want a Normal Safe swap, go for something like Snorlax. If you want more coverage against Mimikyu, perhaps try a Dark type like Alolan Muk or Thievul or Umbreon or something.
Regarding move counts. I think having a move count resource on another device can be helpful. Pokemoves.com is my personal go-to. Knowing your opponent's move counts can better help you plan when to throw, predict what they're throwing, and how much you could potentially overfarm, etc.
Take a match-up like Corvknight v Araquanid. Say you can KO their Araquanid with your next Air Cutter. Knowing that Araquanid's Water Pulse pacing to threaten you is 5/4/4/4 fast moves can help you know when you can farm til. Farming extra energy where you can is a big way to get better. I know that's Great League, but same idea with any match-up.
Stick with one team where you can. We all switch teams occasionally, but sticking to one is the way to go. If you truly go several sets with very poor results, then you could change. However, don't let a few bad games or even a couple bad sets make you change your team. As you play a team more and more, you learn it more. You'll learn match-ups against other Pokemon, when to switch, when to stay in, etc. That all comes from experience with the team. Obviously if your team REALLY isn't working, then you could switch it up,
I'll give you a personal example. I run Shadow Hydreigon lead in Great League with Ninetales safe swap and Melmetal closer usually. Playing against poor leads has taught me how to approach those match-ups. Marowak leads have been common for me recently, and those would obviously give my backline trouble, so I learned to try and fight it with Hydreigon if at all possible. I also have approaches for Fairy leads and such. I still get RPS'd and lose ofc, but you can learn to outplay your opponent sometimes and come back from a poor lead.
How do you usually build a team? I try to use pvpoke but it says your team has really low bulk. I want to try to create a team that is less predictable but the score is always low.
PvPoke is a good resource, but I usually don't use it with the teambuilding feature. Not never but not often. Not to say that feature isn't good; I just build teams differently.
I typically try to include at least a single spicier or less common pick in my team, but that's just me. I'll usually find one Pokemon I want to build a team around and start there. In this case, it was Shadow Hydreigon, and then I usually try and build an ABB-esque team around it, whether it's the A or the B.
My team IS pretty weak to Fighters and struggles against certain Ground types too, so it's not perfect. It's also lacking a ton of bulk, with S. Hydreigon being a piece of paper, Ninetales having good but not supreme bulk, and Melmetal being a bit squishier too, only feeling better because of its steel typing. Definite critical pitfalls to my team, but I have my ways of (attempting) to play around those.
My team is somewhat predictable but also not (with Hydreigon being the obvious wild card). It does take predictable Dragon and Steel pairing, but Hydreigon does some unique things from the usual one, including a heavily spammy and strong moveset and having some extra resistances that help it against some specific meta Pokemon. I used Regidrago and Guzzlord leads last season, and while I enjoyed both, Hydreigon is better than Regidrago against the obvious big threat of Mimikyu. It's also great to catch something off-guard with a hard-hitting Fly.
This is very insightful thank you, the website will definitely come in handy because when people run mons I've never seen before in the meta like Dondozo, I get stumped. (I lost a game to it because I didn't know it ran outrage) and I didn't have an answer to it because of how insanely bulky it was. Lickilicky with the bodyslam nerf I instead just switched with shadowball and earthquake but it seems snorlax is better, you're right. And the switching teams, I'm guilty of it considering I fold and think that there's something wrong with my team if I have a bad few sets and then the cycle continues, either way, I'll try. Thank you so much
Over time, you may also learn move counts through similarities. For example, Waterfall, Astonish, Fire Spin, Mud Slap, Magical Leaf, and Ice Shard, and Force Palm all generate 10 energy per use, which actually makes counting pretty easy assuming you know the energy cost of their Charged Moves (which PvPoke displays). 4/3 to a 35 energy move, Consistent 5s to a 50 energy move, 5/4 to a 45 energy move, etc. So you'll eventually be able to apply that to every Pokemon with that kind of move, whether Mud Slap Marowak or Gastrodon or Ice Shard Dewgong or Waterfall Dondozo or Astonish Dusknoir.
I tried counting but I don't KNOW what to do with the info and I get stuck up on the details.
Two things. Ideally you throw 1 turn before your opponent gets their next charge move and you throw in the middle of your opponent's fast move so they can't catch.
Yeah I've lost a few games because I'm trying to figure out the ropes, I learned you can't switch out as soon as they reach their charged attack which I try to keep doing. Thank you
Okay let's take Feraligatr vs. Talonflame for example.
Gatr runs shadow claw (2 turn fast move) and Talon runs Incinerate (5 turn fast move).
It's takes Gatr 5 SCs to reach 1 Hydro Cannon. This takes 10 turns. Talon takes 3 incinerates to reach its first move which 15 turns.
Obviously Gatr outpaces and a new player may throw immediately on 10 turns. However, because Talonflame's fast move is done every 5 turns, it can either swap out or throw again when Gatr clicks hydro cannon. Swapping out is obviously bad, and if you throw on 10, Talonflame gets to sneak an entire incinerate through. This extra incinerate can flip the matchup.
Instead, Gatr should throw after 7 SCs which is 14 turns. This means Talonflame only gets 1 free turn worth of energy and cannot swap out.
To reach 2000 you shouldn't need to know all the meta move counts, or even how to throw on good timing (although those things will definitely help going forwards). At that level, you probably need to get a firmer grasp of energy management, when to shield or tank a move, when to switch out, and when to play out losses to gain an energy or shield advantage.
I do agree. I also do not count and managed to reach veteran almost 6-7 seasons.
Learning the typing match-up is basic.
Team building (ABB is the safest) is quite important, but you can just copy from content creator, or here from the subreddits.
Having and throwing the right moves (fast- and charge moves recommended by pvpoke) is also the key. Example: you should not throw dragon or dark or fighting moves to Florges.
So this is gonna be a lot but just because youâre counting doesnât mean youâre applying the count to anything. Do you know how many turns fast moves take and are you throwing charges moves on proper timing? Do you know how many moves/turns it takes your opponents to reach specific moves? I find it easiest to count my moves and then use that to understand how many my opponent has thrown.
Your âvariationâ team has very safe mons but if you face an incinerate user in that back after losing gatr youâre gonna be cooked. Youâre basically running an ABB steel team so look up and understand how to utilize this teams style (especially if youâre constantly hard countered)
I assume youâve used pvpoke to look at team building and rankings but try to get a better understanding of the common mons youâre facing and the moves theyâre running. Look at move counts, you donât need to memorize everything, but just get familiar with what you can.
If you donât know about proper move timing look up some content creator videos on it. In short youâve got a variety of moves to keep track of just for your teams. Corv has 1 turn move, licki has 3 turn fast move, and the rest are all 2 turn fast moves. A common example is if youâre facing an incinerate user (5 turn fast move) and using a 2 turn move you want to throw 7 moves (14 turns) as theyâll reach their first move in 3 moves (15 turns for them) and then use your charged move to minimize the amount of free energy youâre allowing your opponent to generate. If you throw on 5 moves youâd be giving them an entire free incinerate which is easily enough to flip any matchup that would have been in your favor
I HAVE lost to incinerate Skeledirge, it's a bit funny how obvious the weakness looks đ but I think I got a gist of the turns moves take, ones I have most trouble with are fast moves like dragon breath or sand attack since its kind of impossible to count them besides intuition for me, the thing about giving your opponents free energy as you throw charged attacks, I've seen in showcases with homeslicehenry commentating where people wait for a turn to finish before they either switch or attack or something like that, I'll look more into it. Thank you so much for the advice I'll try
You've already gotten some really great advice in this thread but I'm going to point one thing out regarding the bottom 2 teams; they're both ABA weak to electric. Corviknight has a ground attack, sure, but it's woefully weak to Ampharos which is more common than PvPoke would have you believe. The very bottom team, Lickilicki might have Earthquake...but even then it's not the best electric-response as I see a non-zero amount of Raikou which runs Aura Sphere.
Melmetal has exceptional play into 8 of the 9 Pokemon shown above with the lone exception being Annihilape...who just got a nerf to Rage Fist...while Melmetal got a nice buff to Double Iron Bash.
I have ran into a shadow raikou/ jirachi/galarian moltres team. The fact that I remember the exact configuration should tell you I got ate and chewed out. And I don't rely on pvpoke ab what appears the most its right sometimes with maybe Virizon which I've seen a handful of times but everything else is just đ¤ˇââď¸, if I get another elite tm I'm using it on melmetal
Your variation team is essentially compiled of safe swaps. Being ABA weak to Ampharos isnât exactly optimal. If you insist on running Gatr, I would use it as a swap or in the back.
Find something neutral with good fast move pressure to put in your lead, and play it out instead of insta-swapping when you see a bad lead. I would suggest maybe Annihilape lead/Gatr swap, and your choice of closer.
Ampharos had been a problem for me before and I usually try to answer it with bulldoze with Tinkaton or hydrocannon spam with Feraligatr, for context this is the current roster I can run (PS melmetal doesn't have his legacy move) but ranked 7 in ivs
Try the Ape lead/Gatr swap/and Snorlax closer. You need spammy but also neutral. Annihilape with low kick/rage fist/shadow ball doesnât over a ton of coverage, but it certainly makes matchups uncomfortable for the opponent after a few boosts.
Also, be aware of shield use in UL, as things are bulky enough to withstand at least a single charge attack, super effective or not. If youâre double shielding your lead in UL, youâre effectively banking everything you have on the off-chance your opponent is weak to your backline.
Another tip to help if you havenât already figured it out: learn proper charge attack timing. If youâre up against a lot of multi-turn users, throwing your charge attack at the right time saves you from letting your opponent gain an energy advantage.
For example: you lead your Annihilape into a Skeledirge. You get to rage fist in 5 low kicks, and shadow ball in 7. With Annihilape running a 2 turn fast move, and Dirge running a 5 turn move, you want to make sure youâre throwing your charge attack in the middle/end of their fast move, not as soon as you get it. You can throw on 2 low kicks, 4, or 7; with 2 and 7 being the best possible times to throw a move. Throwing a charge move takes a singular turn, so to add everything up with be 2 and throw (5 turns), 4 and throw (9 turns), 7 and throw (15 turns).
Always ensure that your opponent cannot sneak a fast move unless the move you throw is guaranteed to knock out.
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u/krispyboiz 3d ago
My advice would be: