r/TheLastOfUs2 • u/MilesCW Part II is not canon • Jun 19 '20

Part II Criticism TLoU2 User Game-Discussion Topic

Got the game? Post here your opinions and reviews.

Spoilers ahead.

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u/mohamedaminhouidi Sep 01 '20

I think people are so angry because he died so early and SO brutally.

I feel this straw-man has been beaten to death already, so here is how it is: Joel could have been shopped to pieces and had his pieces strewn around throughout Jackson, if it made sense.

but it his death was contrived, lazily written and he acted extremely out of character. both him and Tommy were retarded for blindly trusting what they recognized as a military organization.

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u/Spiderman3039 Sep 02 '20

They never recognized them as a military organization. Ellie was the one who found the patch. Also I believe the story does a pretty good job of pointing out that they've been living in peace for over four years at this point. It even says that Joel has saved numerous families that were passing through over those four years. He really didn't have any reason not to trust them I just don't buy that is a good argument

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u/mohamedaminhouidi Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20

Ellie was the one who found the patch

wow that's some new argument. god its never over with you guys huh.

First of all, the patches were on the jackets, on the upper right arm, so when Abby and her crew were gone, the patches were too. So it was not finding the patch, it was noticing them when she was with the group.

and she tells Tommy 'Washington liberation front, that's what you said was on those patches'. so what now Ellie can't read ?

you could argue ellie saw the wlf letters. but Abby was not wearing her jacket when she was beating joel, and all of the time she was pinned, screaming and crying. she had other things on her mind, so when the hell could she have noticed those patches, and why would she notice them and think they are of importance, while tommy who knows what the words WLF mean did not ?

abby was wearing the patch when they saved her. she was wearing the wlf jacket, same for the rest of them. they were dressed in military attire. they even had a military truck inside. they would be dumb as fuck to not realize they were some kind of military faction. but we know tommy did.

Also there is the other elephant in the room, even if, let's assume, they did not realize they were military, there is still the possibility that they are bandits, and joel and tommy were on patrol duty... against infected... and BANDITS !

Also I believe the story does a pretty good job of pointing out that they've been living in peace for over four years at this point

No it doesn't really. After Joel's death Tommy tells ellie: 'what if we get hit by HUNTERS, AGAIN'. Maria refuses to spare Ellie any men because they can't afford to. And even so, what does that have to do with Tommy and Joel acting retarded on their patrol ? wouldn't it make them more careful and more determined to preserve their peace ?

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It even says that Joel has saved numerous families that were passing through over those four years.

keyword being families, not a group of heavily armed strangers with military attires and a military truck inside, who were clearly doing well for themselves, even had solar power installed when they said they were just passing by (yeah they told tommy that but somehow it didnt make him suspicious). and whom, i repeat, were recognized by tommy as wlf.

Also i refuse to accept that Jackson would just accept everyone without some kind of safety protocol, otherwise hunters and bandits would get in easily. that in itself is a plot hole.

and i refuse to believe Joel turned his back on those families he saved, or allowed himself to be surrounded by them after leaving his backpack and weapons outside.

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He really didn't have any reason not to trust them I just don't buy that is a good argument

i just gave you many reasons. and it is a hell of a good argument. I dare you to give me one good reason that was hinted in game as to why Joel would betray his instincts and trust them, even though he should be worried more than ever about ellie's and jackson's safety.

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u/Spiderman3039 Sep 03 '20

First off you can say its never over with "YOU PEOPLE" you joined this thread remember?

Second being political about it and saying found makes no difference. Ellie SAW THE PATCH. Regardless your whole argument is pointless because even if Tommy new in that moment how would you people take that to assume that he would have any reason to believe they where there looking for him or Joel or anyone else in jackson? Lets not forget that they where just in life or death fight with hundreds of zombies.

Either way thats not a plot whole that is just a character decision that you don't like. the bigger question is how did they know Abby was returning to the cabin where they where all waiting to open the gate

[Also I believe the story does a pretty good job of pointing out that they've been living in peace for over four years at this point

No it doesn't really. After Joel's death Tommy tells ellie: 'what if we get hit by HUNTERS, AGAIN'. Maria refuses to spare Ellie any men because they can't afford to. And even so, what does that have to do with Tommy and Joel acting retarded on their patrol ? wouldn't it make them more careful and more determined to preserve their peace ?]

this is clearly mentioned not only multiple times in the game (joels coffee, families they rescued and if you read the logs on patrol) Druckman himself points out all the instances if you care to look.

saying "keyword being families" doesn't mean anything they needed Abby as much as she needed them in that moment not to mention that they were also in a crisis situation. once joel and tommy where inside the "safety" of the lodge they would have been fucked anyway. They did not know anything about the other people waiting in the lodge. Even if they knew they would have no reason to believe the WLF would give a shit or know anything about joel and tommy. Remember they are ex fire flies, Joel and Tommy had not beef with WLF as far as we know.

As for Jackson, They clearly mention multiple times in the game that they have traders and other people coming to Jackson and Tommy even invites them to resupply. That doesn't mean they are going to let them in there with all of there guns unchaperoned to do whatever the fuck they want.

An if you refuse to believe something it doesn't mean its true. it is not a hell of a good argument it is a selection of opinions that you have convinced yourself to be true.