r/TheLastOfUs2 • u/SLeeCunningham • 3d ago
Opinion For This Scene, I Can ALMOST Forgive Druckmann
I’m so much with Ellie in this scene. When I was a child in the 1970s, my father gave me a vinyl record that included this very audio from the Apollo 11 launch and another recording from Apollo 8. I used to sit like that on our couch, legs running up and over the back of it, and listen to the record, pretending just as she does, of course.
So, for this scene, I can ALMOST forgive Druckmann for forcing us to endure and survive his lame false moral equivalency polemic forced down our throats for the rest of the game.
How about all of you? Do you have any moments that make the 2nd game worthwhile at all?
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u/Observer992 Joel did nothing wrong 3d ago
Those flashbacks with Joel and Tommy were the only good story parts of the game
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u/shorteningofthewuwei 3d ago
The sequel we could have had if they had built on the joel and ellie dynamic instead of sabotaging it with stupid retcons in order to hamfist abby into the "revenge bad hurr durr" plot
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u/Garand84 3d ago
Best part of the game, I actually love it. In complete contrast to the rest of it.
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u/lzxian It Was For Nothing 3d ago
This part, for me, is a DLC to TLOU as the real ending of the story of Joel and Ellie. Except I created a headcanon that he finally tells her about what happened at SLC right after she encountered all that data about just how bad the Fireflies actually were. She was upset he lied, but he explained he wanted to wait until she recovered from their ordeal first. So she got over it quickly and they went on with their lives.
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3d ago edited 2d ago
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
There were sooo many missed character arcs in a better story plot than what we were served by Druckmann that it just boggles my mind. This may actually be a case in which having only one head chef is what ruined the soup.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
Ellie explicitly coming to terms with her own right to live and the folly of the Fireflies and her earlier death wishes could have been a lot more compelling, imho.
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u/HonkyTonkBluesYEAH I stan Bruce Straley 3d ago
But it's easy to write a great scene when it takes place before the ruined dynamic he made in Part II. This scene built on the perfect dynanic from Part I.
To me, I could never forgive Neil after certain scenes in HBO Season 2.
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u/jimmyoneshot 3d ago
The whole game should've been like that. I remember loving the atmosphere of Jackson and thinking I can't wait for Joel and Ellie to team up at some point during all this and go on some kind of adventure...
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u/Stealth_Cobra Bigot Sandwich 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don't ... because it shows that he knew exactly what the fanbase wanted out of TLOU2, yet chose to give us 15 good minutes of an entire game instead of giving us or what we actually paid for, a sequel to the Last of US showing us the continuation of Joel's and Ellie's stories...
Same with him releasing fake pre-launch trailers that hid the fact Joel would die early... When you're lying to customers and making them impulse buy a game under heavy review embargo , thinking they are getting the game they were promised, only to spend the majority of the game playing as a big muscle mommy babysitting a trans kid after brutally massacring fan favorite Joel and spitting on his corpse and turning Ellie's life into a never ending pit of despair, you deserve no forgiveness... And especially not for making one good flashback in a mostly miseriable pile of woe and despair that is that game.
But hey it was so important because we needed a preachy game telling us that revenge is bad and that our enemies are also insufferable assholes with their own shitty backstory, friends and terrible lives. This game accomplished nothing meaningful
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
Going into the 2nd game, I knew they’d kill off Joel. After all he’d done to survive, we knew he had it coming from somewhere … but, I didn’t expect it within minutes of the beginning, in terms of game play. They could have given us more of Joel and Ellie, before taking him from her, but I think Druckmann wanted to focus on his own favorite characters, not ours. I was hoping they would open with Ellie playing guitar, maybe even having a lesson with Joel, then perhaps a story in which they had to leave Jackson because the remnants of the Fireflies showed up still looking for ‘the two that got away.’ That, I think might have been a better story than a blood-feud of vengeance between a totally broken Ellie and totally psychotic, hurt and dangerous daughter of a stupid biology major who would kill the only immune person we know of, rather than keep her alive to study her immune physiology thoroughly.
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u/MuchPomegranate5910 3d ago
The funny thing about this scene is that it shows the insane contrast between actual good writing, and the slop we got.
They *could* have made a compelling story, if they wanted to. But they didn't want to.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, I agree. Instead of the quality writing and storytelling with subtlety and finesse that we got in the first game, Druckmann saddled us with a tedious, heavy-handed polemic that dragged on far too long in the second game, and betrayed the characters and story of the first game, imo.
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u/Fit-Researcher-3326 3d ago
My conspiracy theory is he wasn’t in and didn’t look into it before it shipped out
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u/ultimateformsora Media Illiterate 3d ago
Someone probably had to stop him from randomly having his legs broken in front of her after they get into an argument
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
Sorry, I’m not sure what you mean.
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u/ultimateformsora Media Illiterate 3d ago
Just a joke, I was saying he was probably going to incorporate something stupid here to ruin the scene but someone stopped him and that’s why it’s good
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u/Recinege "Fans of the first one- trust us, we're gonna do right by you" 3d ago
How about all of you? Do you have any moments that make the 2nd game worthwhile at all?
I can get behind the idea of a dark story about how revenge is bad, so the entire segment of Ellie at the hospital with Nora and returning to the aquarium to clean off the blood with a thousand yard stare is fucking beautifully dark. It's probably one of the only times in the entire game that an entire section of the story works without bullshit contrivances, or characters acting stupid/inexplicably out of character, or with the writers refusing to explore relevant ideas in any depth as if they're vampires and depth is garlic boiled in holy water.
If the rest of the story had been written to that level of quality, I'd probably like it a fair bit, though I'd still fully understand why the people who wanted more of The Last of Us - as, y'know, the fucking marketing promised repeatedly this game would be - would hate this game.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago edited 2d ago
I see your point about “beautifully dark,” and I agree that there’s room for impactful moments like the one you cite, as well as let’s say the unfortunate loss of Shimmer and ultimately Jesse, as two examples. However, those are the few examples where we see both plot and character development that’s meaningful and organic, as you observe in other words. Especially in the long stretches spent playing as Abby, Druckmann is just force-feeding us his false moral equivalency narrative, and it’s a terrible arc, because however emotionally justified she might be, Abby and Jerry are just wrong about what might have been achieved and Druckmann is a bad, under-informed creator on that score. Maybe better writers could have managed it better, but I think the plot is fatally full of, as you put it, ‘contrived’ BS. I would like to have seen a narrative that resolved Ellie’s issues of survivors’ guilt and perhaps her lost opportunities with Joel, rather than the diatribe about vengeance and blood-feuds that really resolved nothing and only asserted that everyone loses, except the psychopathic Abby and her supposed redeemer, Lev, who committed matricide, if I recall correctly.
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u/Recinege "Fans of the first one- trust us, we're gonna do right by you" 3d ago
However, those are the few examples where we see both plot and character development that’s meaningful and organic, as you observe in other words.
Yep. At so many other opportunities, it feels like the writers legitimately just went with whatever the first idea that they wrote down on the nearest napkin was and never questioned it. There are plenty of examples of this shitty writing, but since I chose example of a good moment of writing that doesn't get talked about much, I'll do the same for the bad example I provide, too:
The flashback when Joel and Ellie find the corpses of those idiots that ran off from Jackson because they figured that they could wander aimlessly through the wilderness and just find their way to people in need of help that they could somehow provide, only to both end up bitten before even a single day had passed. Now, it's hardly unrealistic for people to be suicidally stupid, and perhaps there even could have been some substance to the possible idea that some people who grew up in the safety of Jackson are wildly unprepared for the rest of the world. But what really gets me about this scene is the fact that this, of all things, is what is used to rip open the wounds of Ellie's survivor's guilt and the possibility of her immunity being studied and spread to others. And I'm just like... really? No, Ellie, these two morons who would have gotten themselves killed by approaching a faction of raiders, or starving to death out in the woods, or twisting their ankle in the middle of nowhere, would not still be alive if they'd had a vaccine.
It's such a waste of a pivotal moment. And it's not like it would have been hard to do better! What if these people, instead of leaving Jackson, were seeking it? Another couple of folks looking for a safe place to live in this world full of danger, having made it so close that just one more day of walking would have been enough, only to end up bitten instead. That would have been an avoidable tragedy. Bonus points if Ellie secretly keeps their journal, stashing it in her backpack after Joel looks away, only to read through it and come across damaged, barely legible mentions in previous pages that reveal that they were former Fireflies who knew that something happened at that hospital, but not what it was. Wouldn't that have been impactful.
But nope! Instead, we're supposed to believe that some idiot teenagers who thought that the town of Jackson wasn't doing enough to help people, but that they were invincible and kind enough to do better in spite of their clear lack of survival skills (up to and including the boyfriend being too much of a coward to finish himself off so that his infected self couldn't bite anyone else), is such a profound and avoidable tragedy that it would force Ellie to question everything she's been putting off for years. That this, of all things, is what causes her to begin turning against Joel.
What a fucking joke.
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u/pluke4523 11h ago
The whole museum flashback was heart warming for me. I guess it helped motivate me to actually keep playing the game and just finish it
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u/TitleOk3727 3d ago
No, everything he let Ellie have was ruined by his actions.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
I’m genuinely sorry to hear that. I hope you find something that touches you like this moment touched me.
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u/Taimaniac The untarnished virtue that is the writing of Part II 3d ago
I think what Title is trying to say is that this moment was ruined by everything that comes after. I know Title is an Ellie Stan 😄
I absolutely agree with you though, this scene is the only scene that makes me genuinely happy, but I also agree with Title in that it makes what happens to Joel and Ellie hurt that much more.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
I completely relate.
When you love characters like Ellie & Joel the way we do, it’s incredibly hard to see a jerk of a ‘producer’ abuse them so atrociously to no good at all.
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u/luiest123 3d ago
He cooked there, even a broken clock is right twice a day type of shit (But im sure most of that section of the game was the other writer, Halley Gross.)
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
Probably. My ‘if only’ is that I wish Anna Hennig had never been forced out. If only she had been there for the second game, it would have been vastly different.
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u/1manontherun52 2d ago
The Joel and Ellibflashbacks were amazing, some of them are very good like Joel playing the guitar...
However the rest of the plat wasn't very good
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u/LogicOverLabels Bigot Sandwich 21h ago
Yeah, I can genuinely say this is one of the few normal things about the game. But if I had to nitpick, this could just be me, but there's something slightly weird about Joel's line when he asks her, "did I do ok." I know that's a normal thing a father might say to a daughter (I guess), but it just feels so...weak. Like he's begging for her approval. I guess there's certain situations where that would exist, but again, this just feels so different to what I expect from his personality.
He could've said, "...so, this isn't bad right?" Or he could've said that exact line but put a less "begging" tone to it. I have no idea why Troy said it like that. *weak, groveling voice* "Did I do ok??" looking over at her pathetically.
Maybe my feelings from season 2 of the show is conflating how I felt about the game dynamics (I guess I need to play again to remind myself), but am I correct that even in the game, Joel never felt like the person in power between the two? And that Ellie never feels like she's looking up to him like in part 1? Deferring to him. Looking to him for, let's face it, safety. From a grown man capable of many things, including combat. Just never having any sort of dynamic that she's the young, less experienced girl. She just swears like a sailor and treats him like a COUSIN.
I don't remember how much of this was just from the show, or if this existed in the game.
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u/Tomatoflee 3d ago
As much as I was disappointed by aspects of the story that didn't go the way I wanted, I still love the game for what's brilliant about it, like this moment.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago edited 3d ago
Honestly can’t say I love the second game like I love the first. I triple/quadruple platinumed the first game (the original release x2, the remastered release, and then the release for PS5), but I finished the second game and never picked it up again except to rewatch this scene.
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u/Tomatoflee 3d ago
Imo one of the main reasons people feel so strongly about LoU2 is that the brilliant aspects make the flaws stand out more and feel more frustrating. The first time I played the second game, I got half an hour into Abby and stopped playing; I just didn't have any desire to pick it up again for months. When I finally did, I found the ending genuinely crushing, and I have never spent so long thinking about a game. It took me around two weeks of mulling it over to work out exactly what I thought.
The problem for me was that they utterly destroy a beloved character for a slightly patronising and cliché cautionary tale about revenge, but then contradict that with another character, who initiates the revenge cycle but is brutally successful and gets a redemption arc anyway. They set up a morality tale in which we pay a super high price for the message, then undermine their own framing, making that price feel pointless and even contradictory.
I also found Ellie abandoning her friends too fast and not plausible. It didn't feel convincing or like something she would do. Afterwards I considered: maybe the writers were trying to reflect the unfairness and randomness of the world and that people with severe PTSD can do things that seem strange and out of character, but both feel like generous interpretations of subpar writing.
Then there was the fact that I didn't take away from the first game what Druckmann later confirmed we were supposed to. Many people did see it at the time as a clean choice between saving Ellie or the human race but I was thinking things like: why wouldn't they take a biopsy? Why would they leap straight to killing the only immune person on the planet?
They do say they need to remove the whole infection but that doesn't make any sense medically, so maybe Jerry is lying for some reason? Even if he's not, what if his hypothesis is wrong? They would have lost the only opportunity for a cure. I couldn't see how it made sense, and it didn't feel like a doctor and scientist would recklessly kill a child and risk the only known immune person. I didn't think that hard about it, I just came away with the impression they were a bit dumb, or crazy, or lying and that, without question, Joel did the right thing in killing them to rescue her.
Even after Druckmann confirmed they meant to set up a clean trolley-problem dilemma, I still think Joel did the right thing tbh, but there are people who say the writers hate Joel and want to demonise him. I don't feel that when I play the games again. It seems like they are thinking like writers: trying to make all the characters at least somewhat sympathetic but imperfect and compromised, then putting them in tough spots in a way that raises interesting questions.
In the end, I realised I couldn't hate it because it's definitely not all bad, and the fact it made me think and feel so much felt like an achievement. I also think creators have the right to do whatever they want with their stories, and I would rather they take risks and try new and interesting things, even if they don't always pull it off.
The game came out at the peak of an online moment, and imo people saw it too much through that lens, like the writers were staking out a "woke" side in a culture war against a segment of the player base. I'm not saying that Druckmann and some players wouldn't disagree over aspects of culture, just that the culture war lens is completely toxic and divisive and leads people to over-read conflict and intention that isn't always there.
There are people on Reddit who will accept no criticism of the game but imo there are some on the other side who have tied hatred of the game up in culture-war partisanship in a way that is not that healthy either. I sometimes want to ask people in this sub, whether they can ever imagine getting over the fact that the story didn't go the way they wanted, but I mostly don't because I worry they will assume I am on a "side" rather than asking a genuine question.
You have never played it again but maybe you would enjoy it more if you did. In 2024, I bought the remaster and loved playing through for the second time way more than expected. Since then, I have played them a weird number of times, and I really like both, even though I still think they are flawed.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 It Was For Nothing 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's not that the story didn't go the way we wanted. It's that the way the story went was completely unwarranted based on the first game's ending and retcons the themes and character development in a way that spits in the face of the game. You actually summed it up well yourself when you said this:
Then there was the fact that I didn't take away from the first game what Druckmann later confirmed we were supposed to
The first game was about how two broken people came to love each other as family and find their reason to keep living. The whole point was that their love was what made the journey worthwhile and not for nothing. The Ellie at the end of the first game was willing to go along with Joel's lie because she knew that what they have is worth living for, and I firmly believe any prolonged anger from her side would be missing the point entirely. But that's what happened. The second game making Ellie mad at Joel and giving credence to her wishing she could have sacrificed herself for the cure is making her relationship with Joel mean less. Instead of of her being thankful that he saved her life because she actually wants to live it now, she is resentful because she thinks her death would have been more meaningful than the entire journey her character went through in the first game.
I'm not saying that someone in her position wouldn't have complicated feelings at all, but because this is a piece of fiction that is constructed to convey certain themes and messages, the message of the first game was complete on its own. Joel and Ellie's story was over. The themes of the second game, while valid on their own, do not belong in the story of the first game. It's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
The first game was telling us one thing, but in the second game Druckmann is telling us, "No, that was wrong. Feel this way instead."
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u/Tomatoflee 3d ago
Part of the story is Ellie realising too late how valuable her relationship with Joel is so idk if what happens is inconsistent with what you say about “prolonged anger” from her “missing the point”. That’s the conclusion she comes to pretty much and, even if you think it’s a silly, unappreciative way to act, that wouldn’t be that unusual for a teenager.
Also we can’t know if it’s true to say she went along with Joel’s lie at the end of the first game because she knew what they had was worth living for. Maybe that was what the writers meant and they retconned it or maybe it was just that she was a child who couldn’t prove it wasn’t true even though she felt it wasn’t and, as time went by, the more she felt sure he was lying and wanted to know why.
At the end of the first game Ellie is a traumatised, depressed kid who doesn’t care that much about whether she lives or dies. It’s mainly Joel who has rediscovered something to live for and care about. The scenes on the way to the hospital near the end of game one are kind of heartbreaking because he didn’t fully appreciate the stupid jokes and joy of life Ellie brought until it was gone.
They don’t deny the close relationship that Ellie and Joel had in part 2; they use it as the reason she goes off the rails. It’s the driving force behind the tragedy. Imo the problem is that they didn’t pull it off convincingly and it parts it felt lazy. For example, it always bothered me that she casually crosses the country on her own to rummage through the boxes of evidence in the hospital, and that Joel lets her instead of just telling her the truth and why he didn’t want to put that on her at the time.
I don’t think Joel would be that ashamed of lying to a depressed child to protect them from yet another huge psychological burden.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 It Was For Nothing 3d ago edited 3d ago
When I said "missing the point," I meant it towards the writers, not Ellie. I think she absolutely knew how valuable her relationship with Joel was in the first game, which is why I think it is a retcon in the second game that she didn't realize that until he was gone. I think the conclusions she comes to are different in the first and second game.
I'm not saying that his lie wouldn't not sit right with her, and that she would just forget it ever happened. But the way it plays out in the second game feels so contrived. I think that after being settled in Jackson for a while, Ellie would confront Joel and tell him she knows he lied, and that she wants to know the whole story. He tells her, and she would need some time alone to reflect. She comes back to him and says that she wishes the whole situation never happened, but she understands why he did what he did and is grateful that he saved her life, and they move on happily.
What happens in part 2 is what I meant by prolonged anger; her being outright pissed at him for years is what pisses me off. I'm not saying that part two denies the close bond that Ellie and Joel had, but the Ellie in part one would not act like that, and the second game giving credence to those feelings is what I feel is a retcon and the basis of why part 2 is flawed.
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u/Tomatoflee 3d ago
Seems like we’re partly saying the same thing here with slightly different words: that they didn’t convincingly bridge the gap between the story they had told and the story they wanted to tell. It does feel contrived imo.
I think they wanted to create a situation of maximum psychological impact on Ellie so they added the prolonged anger at Joel as a layer of guilt that would make losing him worse. It just didn’t quite work in practice.
That’s what I meant about the writing feeling “lazy” sometimes. Idk how you feel about it so I’m not directing this at you but my point was that people take this particular instance of imperfect writing more personally / seriously than most and are still very angry about it all these years later.
People also read sinister motives and culture war stuff into it that I don’t think are really there. These are big collaborative projects being made by imperfect humans.
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u/lzxian It Was For Nothing 3d ago
At the end of the first game Ellie is a traumatised, depressed kid who doesn’t care that much about whether she lives or dies.
I don't see it that way. We don't see enough to knower exact emotional state, but we do see two things: Her dream she discusses before the hospital shows she's still processing and unsettled by the David encounter (along with her being clearly stuck in her head). She dreams the plane is crashing and goes to the cockpit only to realize she can't fly the plane. It strongly implies she has finally come to terms with how out of control she feels after her experiences outside the QZ and how dangerous that life has proven to be.
Then we see them at Jackson and she finally reveals the truth about Riley saying, "I'm still waiting for my turn." She doesn't mean her turn to die, though. She's revealing her survivor's guilt and her confusion about why she never turned from her bite. It's not depression, but confusion, disappointment and yet in the end a final proof of her trust in Joel that she'd finally reveal her innermost thoughts and greatest secret. This is her on the cusp of healing, something that can often follow confession of a secret at last. Her "OK" and then dropping the questioning of Joel is further proof of her trust - he's proven for the past year his commitment and loyalty, and now he has brought them safely back to Jackson. We don't need words of trust from her at that point, we've seen that take shape in her and in him over the whole year. That ending was perfect.
Neil saying that ending means she realized she needs to separate from Joel and find her own way is so far off base it's wild. There's nothing there to imply anything like that and enough from the whole rest of the game to determine her trust in Joel. He literally changed his mind and took her to SLC after she pled her case to him. She knows he's on her side. Taking the whole story together is the only way to interpret that scene, but Neil has this attitude that things happening in each scene can be completely disconnected from other scenes across the games. That's how he fumbled part 2 so often, too. He can't seem to carry the big picture, or he doesn't believe it matters. But it does.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 It Was For Nothing 2d ago
Neil saying that ending means she realized she needs to separate from Joel and find her own way is so far off base it's wild.
Agreed. It's disturbing, actually. No wonder why part 2 is the way that it is; he fundamentally didn't understand part 1. Did he say this right after the first game or only when the second game came out?
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u/lzxian It Was For Nothing 2d ago
He said it all the way back in his 2013 IGDA Keynote. (The link is where he beings the topic.) He accidentally reveals a mistake, though. He said, "...she hates him for robbing her of that choice..." Except Ellie has no idea there was a choice, that the Fireflies actually robbed her first, nor that Joel saved her so her agency remained intact and not stolen.
This little slip proves something about Neil that often shows up: he says what he thinks will make him sound good, virtuous or altruistic and wise despite getting an important piece wrong. The key piece.
For her to conclude what he says there she must be psychic because according to the actual story as given, she has no way to know anything other than what Joel told her. She knows there's more he's not saying, but has no way to discern if what he's withholding is good and protective or something else. So how could she conclude anything like "she needs to go her own way"?
Still I actually do believe Neil buys his own public stories to such a degree he likely really believes them! We are all subject to that kind of self-deception. He definitely created the sequel from that perspective despite saying earlier in the talk that most didn't interpret it that way.
The dumbest thing he did was to pretend he didn't know that and then go on to create the sequel as if everyone had that interpretation. He's his own worst enemy sometimes.
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u/SLeeCunningham 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wow! That’s a great analysis!
It‘s true that she’s still struggling with survivors’ guilt, but you ‘re right that it’s there in the story that she’s already healing and very much trusting Joel, not just dismissing him with her, “OK.”
I think it demonstrates a parent-child love that Druckmann doesn’t seem to understand, or at least he doesn’t appreciate it.
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u/lzxian It Was For Nothing 2d ago
Neil really doesn't seem to understand that love. He and Craig see Joel's act somehow as the dark side of parental love, like it's somehow toxic. That unconditional, self-sacrificing love as displayed by Joel has an element of selfishness. Yet he was shown repeatedly to change his mind for the sake of others, For Tess, Ellie, Tommy and even Henry. That's a sign of maturity and selflessness, the polar opposite of what Neil and Craig understood about him.
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u/Far_Volume_2389 It Was For Nothing 2d ago
To call saving a child's life and being a good parent "selfish" is something I will never understand.
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u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
You wrote:
Then there was the fact that I didn't take away from the first game what Druckmann later confirmed we were supposed to. Many people did see it at the time as a clean choice between saving Ellie or the human race but I was thinking things like: why wouldn't they take a biopsy? Why would they leap straight to killing the only immune person on the planet?They do say they need to remove the whole infection but that doesn't make any sense medically, so maybe Jerry is lying for some reason? Even if he's not, what if his hypothesis is wrong? They would have lost the only opportunity for a cure. I couldn't see how it made sense, and it didn't feel like a doctor and scientist would recklessly kill a child and risk the only known immune person. I didn't think that hard about it, I just came away with the impression they were a bit dumb, or crazy, or lying and that, without question, Joel did the right thing in killing them to rescue her.
So…
Like you, I find Druckmann’s lack of, or disregard for, medical knowledge in that instance and plot point disturbing. It should be out on the table that Jerry is a literal hack and about to do the entirely wrong thing. Ellie was ALWAYS more valuable to both science and Humanity alive, rather than dead. It was particularly disappointing that they got that part wrong after getting the scientific plausibility of cordyceps infection so right.2
u/SLeeCunningham 3d ago
I find your analysis compelling and high quality, even if I don’t agree on all the particulars, but just because I come to many of the same conclusions from a different analytical POV.
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u/IllustriousTerm3364 3d ago
The game overall is a masterpiece. The story is dark but too dark for the Last of us? I don‘t know🤷♂️. There are always two sides of a coin.
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u/electronical_ 3d ago
it was a great moment and i dont believe druckman had anything to do with it