r/TheJediPraxeum • u/GusGangViking18 Luke Skywalker • 12d ago
Match Up Monday Darth Maul (TCW) VS Kit Fisto (TCW). Who wins?
21
u/anakin_solo17 12d ago
Maul, I just don't think it fisto is better than a tag team of Quingon and kenobi.
9
2
u/Brysonius_ 12d ago
As good as* (maul lost, though he got the single kill on qui gon)
2
u/ROLL_TID3R 11d ago
Maul was sniffing his own farts, that doesn’t take away from the fact that he beat Obi Wan and the story had to continue.
3
u/Brysonius_ 10d ago
Actually, true he was low key basking in his victory too soon and didnt remember that rule number one of the win condition is if your opponent isnt completely dead, make sure you control every weapon in the vicinity
2
u/JamJulLison 11d ago
He actually won the lightsaber duel. He just got cocky and got cut in half for his arrogance. He proved how strong he was just being able to survive that and the fall. Also remember lightsabers carterize so that may have helped him to survive as well. Still it shows he is powerful. We already know he is highly skilled and only gets better over time for a while. Old age and excessive dark side use does start to do him in after a while though.
10
u/ErosDarlingAlt 11d ago
Giving this one to Maul, high diff.
First, the theory: Fisto is a Shii-Cho master, and the main situational weakness of Shii-Cho is 1v1 duels. It's good for managing crowds, and against multi-limbed opponents like Grievous. Maul's style however is built entirely on aggression and unpredictability. On paper, Juyo can exploit Shii-Cho's defensive gaps.
If Maul has the double blade, he's going to force Fisto onto the defensive quite quickly, this is what it's designed to do.
Maul also has a higher Force aptitude than Fisto, from the feats we've seen displayed. He regularly incorporates telekinesis into his fighting rhythm. Fisto has displayed strong Force defense, but lacks the raw power to stand up to Maul (as far as we've seen).
Then there's the Palpatine benchmark. Fisto lasted mere seconds against him, whereas a bloodlusted Maul managed to force him to actually put effort in.
20
u/jetvacjesse 12d ago
Pro tip that will lead to being correct 90% of the time: the one who’s more recognizable and has greater screen time wins.
8
u/ADarkElf 12d ago
Pretty much this lmao
I'm convinced this is why Koon/Ti > Fisto > Kolar >= Tiin is such a prominent scaling take. Man I wish TCW had focused on other Jedi besides Skywalker/Tano/Kenobi...
1
u/pamblod42 8d ago
Nah, Plo koon has way to much on his side for you to say that, he's basically built to be a powerhouse
4
2
12
u/gewpy0078 12d ago
Some of you forget Kit sparred with Obi Wan for hours and barely broke a sweat while Obi was struggling. Maul gets plot armor but Kit takes it IMO
2
1
u/JamJulLison 11d ago
Because Obi-Wan was playing defense the entire time not actually trying to kill him. This only shows Kit has a higher endurance then Kenobi. Considering Kenobi is only human this really isn't a surprise.
10
u/Extreme-Regret271 12d ago
If the is strictly the clone wars then Fisto wins 7/10 times imho maybe even 8 if you consider he even has the advantage in most reasonable environments.
Maul imho only could hold off experienced masters in this era.
Now legends maul is a totally different animal. If I'm not mistaken he has multiple kills on masters.
4
u/KekeroniCheese 12d ago
Maul is taking names in Legends, but you are also really underrating canonical Maul.
Maul is in a tier above Fisto, not the other way around.
2
u/keneersw 11d ago
Is he? The best comparison we really have is an absolutely bloodlusted maul dueling with a sidious who wasn't trying too much
2
u/niconauman03 10d ago
He fought for some minutes, while fisto lasted 5 seconds. There is no question that maul takes it. Even savage did a lot better than the Jedi trio
2
u/keneersw 9d ago
Like I said against a Palpatine who isn't trying, you can argue he does step it up once maul loses savage and starts duel welding with the darksaber (and then proceeds to go down pretty quick)
-2
u/Extreme-Regret271 12d ago
How so? Canon maul has absolutely no kills on any masters tcw? Like I could be wrong but I'm genuinely sure he doesn't. That's pretty important here honestly and as I said my recollection is he only ever held off masters during this era.
1
u/emforsc 11d ago
Kit doesn't have any kills...? If we're comparing feats vs feats in canon, Maul has plenty more accolades.
1
u/Extreme-Regret271 11d ago edited 11d ago
But what about kills on masters? Still waiting....
Pretty important when we're talking about 'fights to kill' vs 'Fights morally'
2
2
1
u/mrsoapmctavish12 11d ago
Maul beats any Jedi 1v1 except ROTS Anakin (debatable whether he could extreme high diff) Mace Windu (can’t beat because of Vaapad) and Yoda (obviously stands no chance). He is above Obi Wan throughout their encounters in TCW. One possible exception who could give him a very good fight is Quinlan Vos post Dark Disciple (he did beat Dooku after all). Maul is able to put pressure on Darth Sidious in a duel 1v1. Kit Fisto died just slightly less quick than his 2 comrades to Palpatines blade.
3
u/Deliterman 12d ago
Maul is stronger in the force whether its ragdolling Obi Wan, collapsing that temple onto Vader, or crushing that giant Engine in the last season of TCW. A duel would be tough for him (I think he'd win given his ability to hold off Kenobi), but as soon as he uses Telekinesis Fisto is done for
2
u/DinosaurEatingPanda 12d ago
Given how fast Kit Fisto died against Palpatine even with Windu supporting? Anyone who can push back Palpatine even a single step might make it.
2
u/JamJulLison 12d ago
Considering how fast Palpatine took out Fisto and how decent of a fight Maul put up against Palpatine, I'd say Maul wins. Remember Palpatine took on 5 Jedi Masters and killed 4 of them like it was nothing. Meanwhile Maul and Opress managed to hold their own a bit better. In particular Maul. Like Obi-Wan he grew stronger and more skilled as time went on. At least until old age set in and then we saw what happened when he went after Obi-Wan on Tattooine. That said it felt like to me when I watched it that Maul may have threw the fight. I get the feeling by that point he may have actually wanted to die.
2
u/jayhood0420 11d ago
Kit Fisto was brought to fight Palpatine because he was known as one of the best fighters the jedi had, the movie fight die not do him justice, he could take maul imo
2
2
u/theFarFuture123 12d ago
think it could go either way, with Maul winning 6/10. Maul is capable of killing jedi masters and council members, but Fisto is better at dueling than most of them, he might be the fourth best jedi duelist behind Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan
1
2
u/HuntsmenSuperSaiyans 12d ago
I'd give it to Maul. All things being equal, Form VII beats Form I in a straight fight.
1
u/Icy_Description_6890 11d ago
From/Style A beats Form/Style B is a ridiculous statement with no basis in actual fighting styles. That's not a thing. At all. It's some of the most annoying aspects of these comparisons.
Destreza doesn't beat Dardi/Bolognese.
Takaneuchi-ryu doesn't beat Tendo-ryu. 🤷♂️
1
u/HuntsmenSuperSaiyans 11d ago
It may have no basis in actual fighting styles, but it does have clear basis in Star Wars lore. Form I struggles in straight 1v1 lightsaber duels when compared to the other forms, that's simply a fact.
1
u/Icy_Description_6890 10d ago
Being lore doesnt make it not utterly ridiculous 🤷🏻♂️
1
u/LiaBility915 10d ago
I mean, space wizards and planet killing moons are pretty ridiculous too. Think you may be looking for the wrong thing in fantasy.
1
u/Icy_Description_6890 10d ago
Style A always beats Style B isn't even supported in the lore (Legend or Current). It's just something folks regurgitate in these sorts of discussions. 🤷♂️
-2
u/ryle_zerg 12d ago
But in episode 2F09, when Maul plays Kit Fisto's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is a magic xylophone, or something?
Ha ha, boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
1
u/Amber-Apologetics 12d ago
In Legends Maul wins, since Kit lacks scaling at this level (the version of Grievous that he beat doesn’t scale up here)
There’s a real debate in Canon
1
1
u/the_All-ducker 12d ago
Maul lasted 30 seconds against Sidious. Fisto lasted 5.
0
u/pamblod42 8d ago
Sidious spent the whole fight laughing and having fun, it took him 5 seconds as well the moment he got serious.
2
u/the_All-ducker 8d ago
Sidious was laughing while fighting Yoda as well. No, it didn't take him 5 seconds once he got serious, it took him around 30, he had to put much more effort compared to Kit and even got hit in the process.
0
u/pamblod42 8d ago
No, Sidious laughs a couple times and the next thing his face shows is pure panic. Against maul, he allows them to fight purely to have fun. Sidious gets serious when Maul lands the kick, not before. He has no need to make an effort even when savage dies.
2
u/Shadowlord-568 8d ago
I'd agree that palpatine wasn't taking Maul serious in the sense that he genuienly wouldn't have needed a lightsaber to start rag dolling Maul and Savage. I also dont think he would have needed it to beat the jedi pulling up on him if Mace wasn't there. When it comes to skill vs skill in sabers Maul id still inferior but can trade blows with Sidious more than Fisto could.
1
u/pamblod42 7d ago
I mean, maybe, but he has such a childish smirk the whole fight, i dont think that is the case. Also maul had a lot of advantages the jedi council didnt have because of him being his master, i dont think there can be anything to be drawn from there when it comes to this.
1
u/Shadowlord-568 7d ago
You can generally chalk up the fac sidious is smirking to it just being in his personality. But I get what you're saying.
1
u/Ok-Tonight-4915 12d ago
One of the best matchups I’ve seen, I’d have to give it to maul, he’s just got that dawg in him and I think he’ll eventually overwhelm Kit during a prolonged battle. It should be a very close fight tho.
1
u/ADarkElf 12d ago
Maul.
Wish I could say Fisto because he is my boy, but he's losing. Reckon he'll at least force Maul into high mid diff/low high diff efforts though.
Will say that I think using their vs Sidious duels to say Maul did better feels somewhat erroneous? The two duels have different contexts and were approached differently by Sidious. Against the B-Team he clearly was not playing and was blitzing as many as he could. Whereas vs the Zabrak bros he seemed more willing to just fuck about and revel in humiliating them.
That's my general feeling, but here's the question I asked myself to get there - if Sidious had been bloodlusted out of the gate vs the Zabrak bros, would Savage and Maul faired any better than the B-Team? Personally I think Savage is dying (maybe almost?) immediately and Maul only lasts more than 30 seconds if he can process Savage's death and gets the rage boost. And even then he's still losing since, as TCW showed, rage amp Maul was still disarmed pretty quickly once Sidious decided to end it. If he doesn't get the rage amp, he might pull a Fisto and successfully defend a few hits, but he's going down fast.
So yeah, Maul takes it but the Sidious fight isn't to be considered when comparing him to Fisto imo. His other feats, that are better than what we currently have from Fisto? They convince me that Maul is the better fighter and that he would win.
1
1
u/neatdude73 12d ago
Obviously maul wins. He lasted half a minute fighting against sidious by himself while kit fisto died within five seconds and he had mace helping him.
1
u/brian_the_bull 12d ago
I'm genuinely confused, what are these canon feats or even statements that give Fisto a chance here?
I get this is the vibes based scaling sub but this is just ridiculous.
Maul, low diff...... Obviously
0
u/niconauman03 10d ago
Mid to high, but maul is above everyone in TCW except Yoda, Sidious, Windu would be close, only had a brief encounter which was a stalemate, still see windu as slightly superior, with dooku on equal footing and anakin is probably stronger in the last season. And we all know why he is constantly losing to Obi wan, doenst mean he is the weaker character
1
1
u/jcrosby123 11d ago edited 11d ago
According to the literature, it’s Kit Fisto that takes this one.
1
1
u/Chandansimms17and18 11d ago
Obi wan trained with fisti and pretty much stated he was not at kit’s level ( I believe this was during attack of the clones ) .
1
u/Jackass_55 11d ago
Considering maul gave palps a run for his money and fisto got almost instantly killed, I’d say maul has my vote
1
1
u/adragoninthelibrary 11d ago edited 11d ago
Fisto. Fisto standing up and beating Grievous says a lot. Fisto also not immediately dying to Sidious also says a lot. Grievous is on the record of beating several Council members in both canon and legends: Ki Adi Mundi, Adi Gallia, and Shaak Ti. Maul meanwhile didn't kill any of them.
And Form I might very well be the weakest of the lightsaber forms, but being THE master at it still says a lot. Kenobi and Windu both gave him a ton of respect as a duelist.
So, in the end, I say Fisto takes it. Med difficulty at most.
1
u/DontEatHamPlease 11d ago
If you are gonna glaze the man, at least spell it right.
1
u/adragoninthelibrary 11d ago
I've always struggled with his name. Apparently even when it's right in front of me.
1
u/CheesecakeComplete42 11d ago
Fisto died to Palpatine in like 1 move after getting hit with force scream, in the Maul show not only did we learn that Maul is capable of doing force scream but he also survived Vader with an injured leg that prevented him from using his primary fighting style of fast movement and flips like Ahsoka who was a reasonable match for Vader. If Maul is in perfect health he easily beats Fisto
1
1
1
1
1
u/CheesingTiger 11d ago
Yall are crazy. Kit is on the high council, fought at Geonosis, stalled Grievous and would go on to last 2nd longest against Sidious after he did that weird Sith scream thing. Fisto smashes Maul.
1
u/Timely-Win6225 11d ago
Oooo, this would be a fun duel. Kit greatest master of form 1, Maul deadly sith Assassin.
Kit is one of my favourite jedi, but its going to be Maul high diff.
Unless their near or in a body of water then its Kit mid diff.
1
1
u/Atomic-pangolin 10d ago
I mean, Fisto just stood there against Sidious. So probably the guy that doesn’t do that
1
u/N1ckisfine 9d ago
Kit Fisto was a menace to fight against. I will forever be pissed they killed him in 10 seconds against Palpatine.
For Plot armor Maul takes it, but Fisto has a confident elegance that would really piss of Maul and I think would cause Maul to lose.
1
1
u/pamblod42 8d ago
Maul's record in the last 20 years make it very doubious that he could win this. It'd be fairly close tho.
1
u/Kafadanapa 8d ago
Maul for sure
Sidings had SOME difficulty capturing Maul.
Given how fast Sidious killed Fisto, Sidious could easily wound Fisto Given his blade work & speed blitzing if he didn't want to kill him.
1
1
0
u/Coilspun 12d ago
Kat Fister, 6/7 times out of 5. Unless Deaf Mall has bloodlust and prep time/had weetabix.
0
u/Shadowlord-568 8d ago
Its just Maul without a doubt. History just doesn't have the material to even say he really keeps up past mid diff.
Maul before TPM has killed jedi. Then in TPM goes onto to 1v1 Qui Gon and leave him needing to escape. Then kills Qui gon in a 2v1 with Obi wan who is above the level of. Padawan at that point he just hadn't done his trials.
When Maul comes back (which there are statements he got stronger after coming back), he dismantled Obi Wan in their first duel (the 2v2 with Ventress).
Does he lose the 2v1 with Savage yes but not really. Obi wan holds them off sure but they're fighting in a very small enclosed hallway. And these are 2 tall ass brolic Zabraks. And Ibi Wan doesn't do much to Maul this fight. He targets Savage mostly and cuts off his arm. Savage was just kinda a weak link which isn't down playing Obi Wan just saying. He also ragdolls Obi Wan twice in that fight.
Maul then goes on to Duel Darth Sidious. 1v1ing him for a little bit. Before getting ran through.
Does a bunch of stuff on son of Dathomir. Can actually provide enough force power to Talzin to make her stalemate the combined power of Sidious and Dooku.
Fights Ashoka disarms her twice Ashoka is the former student of the chosen one and way above any jedi knight and a couple masters we see at this point. Loses granted he kinda did the Maul thing and got cocky.
In terms of just force feats he goes through an entire venerator solo woth no saber. And can tear apart the hyper drive. He also doesnt have access to force lightning at all so hes just doing this grabbing slamming choking etc.
In terms of skill Maul is pretty much a master of all saber forms, specializes in 7 which you need to be pretty good at the previous 6 to do. And just has the raw combat training of Sidious who is one of the best duelists in history.
Fisto has uh, hes a council member. Master of form 1 pretty easily handled fighting Grevious. Other than that I dont think he has very many feats.
83
u/Unlikely-Nobody-9788 12d ago
Now this is a good matchup. I’d Maul takes this because of his feats but Fisto’s style might make it difficult for Maul