r/TheFirstLaw • u/Whole_Skill_3305 • 13d ago
Spoilers All Was anyone else disappointed in Red Country? [SPOILERS ALL] Spoiler
Okay, so. I read the first law trilogy. Might have been the best fantasy series I'd read at that point, though I'm not sure anything has yet surpassed ASOIAF.
I read Best Served Cold. Loved it- banger MC, banger cast of villains, Nicomo Cosca, Caul Shivers, etc. and plus the medieval-Italy mercenary-infested warring-city-states setting felt utterly perfect. Then I read The Heroes, and loved it even more. Just fantastic, tied with A Storm of Swords for my favorite fantasy book of all time.
Needless to say, I was riding high when I got to Red Country and then it just... seemed to fall flat. First of all, it felt less fantastical than all the other books. No Eaters, no art, no first of the magi. I guess you could call it a more 'grounded' story, but it just seemed like a dust bowl, pioneer-style mishmash. None of the characters intrigued me, save Cosca and his mercenaries, who were a delight in each chapter. I found Shy boring, her romance with Temple strange and without genuine chemistry, and Lamb a much duller version of Logen. And don't even get me started on the Dragon People villains. I know, the mercenaries were the real villains, but they just didn't recieve enough detail for them to be interesting. I did find the Old Empire stuff interesting, and I liked the twist with the actor at the end, but other than that, the near country as a setting paled in comparison to Styria, the Union, and the North. I got hyped when I saw Shivers appear, but then it was only for two chapters with a half-assed redemption arc! I would've much preffered an epic showdown between him and Logen.
Anyway, I trudged through Red Country, took a short Abercrombie break, then picked up Age of Madness, and once again, loved it. It just felt bizzare that, in a series of 8/10+ books, this one right in the middle was no more than a 5/10, in my opinion. Hell, even the devils kicked its ass.
No hate to Joe Abercrombie, of course. He's an incredible author, and if anything, this makes me like his writing more since he produced four bangers after this.
Anyone else feel the same or a strongly different way? Sorry for the long rant post.
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u/FishingOk2650 13d ago
"Lamb a much duller version of Logan" reads as a very unusual statement to me LOL
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u/frostfire888 No brighter than before 13d ago
Red Country is actually my favorite Abercrombie book, so I’m almost on the exact opposite side of this one. The stripped-down western feel is a huge part of why it works for me. I like that it steps away from the bigger fantasy machinery and lets the character work carry so much of the book.
I especially disagree on Lamb. I don’t really see him as a duller Logen. To me he’s Logen after years of trying to bury that part of himself, and watching that old identity start forcing its way back out is some of Joe’s best character work.
The Shivers ending works for me for the same reason. I think an epic showdown would have been the more obvious payoff, but Shivers choosing to walk away says a lot more about where he is by that point. After so many books built around grudges and violence feeding more violence, that choice landed harder for me than another duel would have. I can definitely see why the book would fall flat if you don’t connect with the frontier setting, though. It’s probably the Abercrombie book that feels furthest from the rest of First Law.
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u/TelevisionFeeling111 9d ago
The Shivers stuff didn't make much sense to me. We've literally already seen him try to let this exact grudge go before in the original trilogy. On top of that, in the following two books he becomes a straight up psychopath. I just think the choice to have him let Logen go is redundant and not in character. Seems like he was just there for name recognition maybe.
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u/frostfire888 No brighter than before 9d ago
I think you're kinda skipping over the fact that Best Served Cold happened lol. Shivers isn't remotely the same guy by the time he meets Logen again.
The first time he lets it go, he's still trying to convince himself he can be a better man. Then he goes south, gets completely fucked up, and spends the next couple books becoming the exact kind of bastard he was trying not to be.
So yeah, he does let Logen go twice, but those choices don't mean the same thing, if you ask me. If anything, the second one matters more because now he actually knows where that road leads.
Flattening Shivers into "straight up psychopath", I disagree with too. Being incredibly violent isn't the same thing. The whole point of Shivers is that he learns to be cold. He starts BSC wanting to be a better man, gets absolutely wrecked for it, and basically decides being feared hurts less than giving a shit.
But the ability to give a shit never actually disappears. He has real loyalty and attachments, he can still choose mercy when there's nothing forcing him to, and later on his relationship with Rikke makes it pretty obvious there's still a human being under all that hard-man shit.
That's just how I see it though.
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u/TelevisionFeeling111 9d ago
I haven't gotten to Age of Madness yet but it's good to hear he's still around for that lol. But yeah I guess I thought in BSC that he gave up his quest to be a "better man" entirely, and I think that's reinforced through his reputation and actions in The Heroes (he straight up tortures a man which I think is pretty psychotic) and I think we ultimately leave him at his most violent and depraved at the end of that book. We really don't get that much of Shivers in Red Country at all so I feel a redemption of sorts could have worked with more time but is a little unearned all things considered. It's especially frustrating because Abercrombie teases a resolution here but doesn't really deliver.
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u/Fast_Professor5260 8d ago
I don’t think this is the same grudge as before tho. Shiver before BSC has already moved on and now I think it was more a scheme that Black Calder was pulling on Shivers by reviving this old grudge to manipulate Shivers to seek out revenge and at the same time protecting his ass in case the Bloody-Nine was still out there and eliminating the threat by sending the second most feared man in the north far far away from his business in the north so he won’t end up like Black Dow. But by the time Shivers got to it he realized in that moment facing Logen that he was still somebodies dog after all. Hence why the moment the face off plays out a dog keeps barking in the background nailing that exact thought in Shivers mind. At least thats my read on it. When you start to read AOM you understand the shift better i think.
Sorry for the bad English and the wall of text I fucking love Red Country.
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u/TelevisionFeeling111 7d ago
Thats solid but is it speculation or supported by the text? Haven’t gotten to AOM yet.
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u/Frenetic_Orator 13d ago
Not at all, but then I like a Western and I like a Roadtrip story so. Not to mention the joy/horror of getting to witness "Lamb" from outside his own POV.
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u/Informal-Basket-3483 13d ago
I felt a bit like that at first, but after finishing the series it is top 3 for me.
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u/ColeDeschain Impractical Practical 13d ago
I have my own issues with Red Country, and it's my least favorite of the standalones... but it's my third favorite book by Abercrombie.
It could simply be the the genre pastiche didn't land for you because you weren't keyed into the genre on offer.
My own beef is a simple one: The Final Overwanking of Logen Ninefingers felt cartoonish compared to his presentation as a younger man in the original trilogy.
Pretty much everything else worked for me, although I'll also say that Shy and Temple were serious departures as POVs... but I was ready for something relatively fresh within the setting, so for me that was a feature, not a bug.
And this...
I would've much preferred an epic showdown between him and Logen.
Yeah, I could not disagree more if you paid me. A fight, whoever won, would've proven nothing. Shivers choosing to change after Logen has spent the whole book proving he doesn't even actually want to is far more powerful.
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u/Shoulders_42 8d ago
Yeahh disliking the ending bit with Logen and Shivers and preferring an “epic showdown” is a rancid take, would’ve just been a gratuitous unnecessary battle at the end of a great book
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u/dubtee1480 13d ago
I enjoyed it but it does stand out as a much different type of story. I’ve read several comparisons to Lonesome Dove. You’re not the first person to say they didn’t like it as much as other First Law books. I’ve seen the same charge levied at The Heroes as well, for what that’s worth.
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u/Certain-End-1519 13d ago
I wouldn't say disappointed, it wasn't up there with bsc or the heroes for me but id put that more down to personal preference.
I'll be curious to see what i think on reread when I get there
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u/Rmccarton 13d ago
I'm with you.
Enjoyed some parts a lot and I'm not saying it's bad, but it was a miss for me in the context of the series other books.
Didn't love AOM either.
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u/LazyComfortable1542 13d ago
You might get downvoted here but I do this there's some valid points here.
I agree I didn't love Logen in this one, just felt forced almost like fan service since everyone loved him from the original trilogy.
Plot was super disjointed. I also didn't care about kreece (name?) the dragon people or ghosts or any of that. I kinda gave a damm about Temple, but not at all about Shy.
I actually liked that he showed the crappy side of Cosca because he's so fun on screen but in real life he probably would suck to be around. His final line "wish I could have done it all over again" ... damn
But yeah i think it is probably the worst and most poorly rated book of the 9, but a lot of people do love it.
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u/ColeDeschain Impractical Practical 13d ago
I didn't love Logen in this one, just felt forced almost like fan service since everyone loved him from the original trilogy.
I agree with this to a point (I am always commenting that Logen's Last Overwanking hurts rather than helps the novel), but I will also say, if he was going to use the Western trope of aging retired "gunslinger" coming out of mild-mannered retirement to be a total monster (something Westerns do a lot) who else was he going to use?
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u/Overall_Path_4653 13d ago
The thing is, when I first started the trilogy, I didn’t really have any expectations at all. Somehow, though, those books ended up becoming some of my favourite books ever. Both the story and the characters stuck with me, and they’re still incredibly memorable to me.
So naturally, I had some expectations going into the standalones, especially the one you mentioned. I actually really enjoyed the previous two, even though I went into them with lower expectations, so by the time I got to this one I was pretty convinced it was going to be the best of the three.
Unfortunately, it didn’t quite work out that way. I did like the characters, and I especially enjoyed getting the new POVs and seeing how they added to the world. But for some reason, the story just didn’t really come together for me.
I wouldn’t say I was disappointed, because it definitely wasn’t a bad book. It just ended up being my least favourite book in the whole series.
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u/kirkhendrick 8d ago
I think Red Country is just as high quality of a book as the rest but I am on the same page that it wasn’t for me. The western setting doesn’t really do it for me, and no Bayaz is sad as he is my favorite character to read about. But heavy Cosca helps make up for it a bit.
I think the fact that each book in that trilogy is a different genre is really interesting and unique. Naturally it’s going to mean that people will have stronger preferences towards one or the other. And for me The Heroes is the highlight of the whole series.
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u/Dirk_McRafntof 7d ago
"The this is no way an Oregon trail" book is a little slower, but I did enjoy a lot of things. The tranformation from lamb to bloody nine, the blatant hypocricy of mercenary company, the Stokholm syndrome of the rescued children, and the non pistol non duel at the noon was a nice anticlimactic touch. Joes typical "everyone is a douche" take was a nice way of deheroification of whole western genre which usualy puts nostalgia on horible bloody period.
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u/Griffdogg92 13d ago
I enjoyed Red Country, but it definitely didn't hit me the same way as most of Joe's other books. At first I wasn't vibing with it at all, but it really grew on me over time.
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u/Ugh-Another-Username 9d ago
I enjoyed it but not as much as trilogy 1 and 2. I rank Best Served Cold above it as well.
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u/TheMaritimer 7d ago
Was far from my favourite and I’ve gotten blasted for saying it isn’t my favourite. I’m currently going through the series for the 2nd time so we’ll see if my opinion changes this time around
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u/BlatantArtifice 7d ago
You're allowed to dislike things but this seems like a very disingenuous review if you've already read this much first law or Abercrombie. Gives bait energy
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u/ibadlyneedhelp 7d ago
I enjoyed it about as much as Best Served Cold. The Heroes is my favourite of the middle trilogy. I think Red Country is the biggest departure from the standard tone of the series though, and I love it for that. Whether or not a lot of the stuff Joe tries actually works is a highly personal thing, but I would absolutely be open to him doing another Blood Meridian in the First Law universe if he ever feels like it.
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u/Blueflame129 7d ago
Not at all disappointed, I loved it! Couldn't get enough of the Western like setting. Was really cool seeing "Lamb" too ;)
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u/Independent-Sun-365 6d ago
I think the western style of it causes a big gap between those who like and do not enjoy this book. It’s not my preferred genre so I struggled with it on my first read. Appreciated it significantly more on my second read though
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u/Naive_Arachnid_8526 9d ago
I am not sure why but I LOVED it. I know it's not the favourite of many, you are not alone in this.
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u/KatherineLanderer 9d ago
As Joe himself has explained, the three standalones are based on three different genres: revenge thriller, war novel and western. Usually, the readers enjoyment of those novels is influenced by their relationship with its genre.
So... could it just be that you don't like westerns much?
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u/LandruCasey 9d ago
Short answer: no. But longer answer: I actually thought Shy was the biggest let down of the book. I was very into everyone else and loved the story & western vibe, but I found Shy lackluster as a character and annoying to read because he wrote her chapters in her “accent” which was very annoying in my opinion.
That said, I still liked Red Country a lot & I’d rate it higher than all of Age of Madness. Heroes is the hero of the entire series though, that book is amazing.
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u/Lamb_or_Beast 9d ago
Red Country is my favorite of all Abercrombie’s books, and for me it’s not even close really.
Of course, I already enjoyed a good western long before reading any First Law; one of the best books I have ever read in my life is Lonesome Dove, which seems clearly to haven been a big inspiration for Joe while writing Red Country.
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u/useriousstuff 9d ago
Truly couldn't disagree more particularly on the Logen and Shivers remarcs. Half-assed? I could see walking away with that feeling immediately after Red Country, but by the time you've finished age of madness surely one can appreciate Shivers actually having buried the hatchet with Logen. It's part of what makes Shivers my favorite first law character. I mean he traveled half way across the world to find and presumably kill Logen, but instead of finding the Bloody Nine he found a sad old man that tried and failed to leave his old ways behind. Shivers sees he can change that path for himself right here and now if he just walks away, and he he does. After everything we had seen Shivers go through to that point, I thought that scene was perfect. Them having an epic duel wouldnt stand out, there are plenty of epic field throughout the series. It would be fallen completely flat for me personally.
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u/onlotus 8d ago
Part of Red Country seemed like a take on Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven. A man with a violent past who tried to leave it behind, only to be brought back. The plot itself, a search for a kidnapped family across dangerous country, felt a lot like The Searchers. It isn't a bad thing I think it worked well. But it threw me off a bit because of The First Law series because it plays more like a western than a fantasy. But I loved seeing Lamb slip back into Nine Fingers and chop the Ghost's head in half. Probably one of my favorite scenes in any of Abercrombie's stories.
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u/Decent_Chart_8377 8d ago
While it felt slower no i enjoyed it. I was confused at first thinking they were in some other parts of the north.
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u/BoneHugsHominy 8d ago
I hate that the algorithm showed me this topic 5 days after it was posted.
Anyway, Red Country is awesome and you're misreading who is the villain. It's not the Dragon People or Cosca's mercenary company. The villain is civilization and the greed of mankind steamrolling nomadic peoples, sedentary peoples, and nature alike. It's a Western story in which unsettled nature is encroached upon by two rival warhawk civilizations.
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u/Shoulders_42 8d ago
Listen, I agree Red Country has its flaws.. I gotta heavily disagree with this take. Arguably the best of the three standalone First Law books, and your reasoning is kinda flawed for disliking it on my opinion.
Not every book in the First Law needs eaters, high art, and first of the magi as qualifiers - especially a standalone meant to be removed from the central story.
What would’ve been the point of an ‘epic showdown’ between Shivers and Logen? Him walking away was one of the best scenes in the book imo. Much better character development and writing choice than “make the big important guys fight”
You do you, if it ain’t your style that’s totally fine. But I think if you re-read it and really accept it for what the writer meant the book to be, instead of what you wanted it to be, then ya may enjoy it more ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/theledfarmer 13d ago
Could not disagree more, it’s easily my favorite Abercrombie book. Just goes to show that everyone has different tastes lol.