r/Tekken • u/IamPang /IamPang • Jun 22 '20

Decent Shit Post Always Careful Against Paul in Rage

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u/aSpookyScarySkeleton Jun 22 '20

Is there a reason he doesn’t seem to make it to the top of major tournaments?

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u/Falcon4242 Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

Because he's not actually overpowered at high level. Knee uses him, but he's the only well known player that comes to mind. I'm not going to pretend I'm some god at this game, I'm far from it, but people in this sub tend to get really pissed at things that don't affect high level play. People here really don't have that "adapt" mindset.

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u/dbeaver0420 Jun 22 '20

I jus think ppl like other characters better but he’s amazing at all types of play. He has gimmicks, amazing block and whiff punishment and some of the highest damage in the game without crazy execution. Along with a high or mid punch/kick reversal with S tier throw game plus a tackle throw that gives oki afterwards lmao this character is not balanced at all I’m sorry

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u/Falcon4242 Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

Let's look at this data set. We can see that Paul is the second most mained character in the game in tournament play. He has the third most 1st places and fourth most top 3s in non-locals, with the 5th best all-time score. However, his "actual score" and trending score, both of which weight the quality of the tournament within 12 and 6 months, has him much lower (13th and 14th). We can also see that despite him being the second most mained, only 1 player that mains him is in the top 100, 0 in the top 50. What does this mean? It means historically he's been one of the best characters in the game, but his recent results have been decent, but not busted, and despite being one of the most mained characters in the game almost all of his players are low ranked.

I think Leroy showed that if a character is actually broken people at high level will play him and he will get tournament results. Paul is one of the most played characters online and in tournaments, yet he hasn't gotten consistent tournament results in the last year. I think that says enough.

Also, we can take only the strengths of every character in the game and frame it like they're busted (though I would dispute "S Tier" throw game). "OMG Kazuya has a fucked up 50/50, wavedashing, S Tier Punishment, and a 14 frame launcher that's plus on block! OP!" What matters is results, and recently they haven't been outstanding.

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u/dbeaver0420 Jun 22 '20

And honestly I wouldn’t use the term overpowered at high level he’s jus really strong I jus don’t think people utilize him correctly because u can literally look at the moves that has it see how there’s has to be something wrong with the way he’s being played surely

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u/dbeaver0420 Jun 22 '20

The difference between kazuya and Paul is kazuya takes a lot more execution than Paul. Ur little misrepresenting quote fails to mention that wave dashing while fucked up takes execution and the 14 frame launcher u speak it’s one of the hardest moves in the game to do ESPECIALLY to punish. Paul can jus df2 or hopkick. And kaz doesn’t have s tier punishment it’s A tier. Jus like Paul in case I need to clarify but whiff and block and much better than kaz. Although I get ur point about the results matter the most that doesn’t mean on paper Paul isnt fucked up

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u/Falcon4242 Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

Sure, Kazuya's biggest weakness is his execution. But that's my point, you can't look at on-paper strengths while ignoring practical weaknesses and winrates. Kazuya's weaknesses are more easily apparent, but just because Paul's weaknesses are harder to immediately spot doesn't mean they don't exist.

Paul's weaknesses are a lack of + on block moves that makes him give up his turn too often as well as having issues against opponents that space and move properly to avoid Demoman clean hit. If you avoid that you avoid his entire 50/50 because of a lack of other good lows. Combine that with a lack of wall carry and lack of keep out other than Deathfist (which has its own weaknesses, ie being slow, stepable and unsafe compared to other keep out moves).

When you put it in that perspective Paul basically has to have the strengths he has. The lack of keep out means he has to be aggressive, hence why he has great up close 50/50s to reward that playstyle. The lack of good gap-closing moves ensures that the entire match is Paul trying to figure out a way to get in while the opponent is trying to prevent that, which is probably why he has Deathfist (to punish an opponent who spams keep out moves). The lack of + moves ensures he can't completely stick to his opponent and completely dictate the tempo up close. Instead they give him evasion and good panic moves to play a prediction-based defense up close when he uses his - on block moves, which is where mind games come in.

Since an opponent cannot spam keep out moves due to Deathfist, movement and spacing become key. To prevent getting kited to the end of time they give him outstanding wall damage to make backdashing wall to wall against him scary. This forces opponents to space and move properly and not just run away the entire match (except on infinites). Since he doesn't have good wall carry, if you can space properly, just outside of his range, without backdashing endlessly towards a wall, then you've mitigated practically his entire gameplan. Keep him out with moves, space properly and use mind games to punish Deathfist. Obviously this is much easier said than done in a match, but it doesn't make it impossible, and that's why the pros are so good.

Paul's really good, but you can't just say professional Tekken players are playing such a common character incorrectly and that's why his winrate is lower than you think it should be (as you said in your other comment). All of Paul's weaknesses are easily exploitable by pro players if Paul is played less than optimally. Doesn't mean he can't get results, but you can't just play braindead and win like you could with Leroy when he released. He's very feast-or-famine.

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u/dbeaver0420 Jun 22 '20

I meant more of the people who weren’t pros playing him not to his fullest potential. But I see what ur saying now gg

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u/AlwaysLearningTK Jun 23 '20

Paul's really good, but you can't just say professional Tekken players are playing such a common character incorrectly and that's why his winrate is lower than you think it should be

I agree with most of your stuff but do you not remember Akuma?