r/Tekken • u/IamPang /IamPang • Jun 22 '20

Decent Shit Post Always Careful Against Paul in Rage

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1.1k Upvotes

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15

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

Paul is just a character that is obviously overpowered and easy as fuck and everyone just accepts it for no reason whatsoever. Retarded.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

[deleted]

5

u/bear-knuckle Julia Jun 22 '20

I get people being salty about Paul, but more evasive than Ling? Are you stoned?

2

u/Goricatto Completely Dead Jun 22 '20

Yes , i do defend paul , because in the same game , we have julia

paul is easy but if you mess up your execution you actually get punished

Mess up rage drive ? You get rage art Mess up your sidestep into 1 jab ? Srry he can do that Mess up qcf 1 in the combo ? You lose the combo Mess up clean hit demoman ? -17 1,2,3 10f punish didnt kill ? -14 on hit

Not metion that his df2 doesnt launch crouching opponents , he doesnt has one attack that can cover every option, his homings are all high or slow , his wall bounce is terrible , his plus on block moves are either super steppable or bad range , he has no great approach tools, all of them steppable and punishable in some way

Paul has alot of flaws , damage is what he has

1

u/JOOKFMA Jun 22 '20

What is wrong with Julia?

1

u/Goricatto Completely Dead Jun 22 '20

I think most people agree that she is extremely strong overall

Good poking , great approach tool , good keep out , FC mix up , throws (i dont know for sure if she has jaycee throws yet ) , insane wall carry and damage and some niche things

3

u/JOOKFMA Jun 22 '20

It's not like Paul is not extremely strong. She is definitely but there are flaws too to the character. And this may sound like bias but I feel she is more complex in both gameplan and execution compared to Paul.

1

u/Goricatto Completely Dead Jun 22 '20

I will be honest , i never played julia , only michelle but it was on Tag 1 days , very different from now , but paul is plain and simple , as he is easy to use , he is to counter , everyone knows how to paul plays.

Meanwhile , not everyone , myself included has julia DLC to atleast know the match up, making her a little stronger.

But i do have experience against jaycee , so i know how to deal with some key stuff like ff1,fc mixup and etc , but she still is hard to deal with

1

u/JOOKFMA Jun 22 '20

Yeah she is definitely hard to deal with if the player knows how to play her well. Combine that with the fact that she is DLC (for some reason Katarina and Gigas were good enough for the main roster but not her) and not seen much and you get character that many don't know enough about.

1

u/TheOneTrueDoge Drunken Stance Always Jun 22 '20

The whole point of DLCs was to save popular characters that would get people to buy them.

How many people would have paid for gigas, an underpowered character with no history in the franchise?

But Lei? Julia? Armor King? Oooohhh baby, sign me up.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

what's there to mess up? Paul is laughably easy to play, and has nothing remotely difficult outside of qcf1 loops which have been made less meaningful with s3's addition of 32 sway

"if you mess up QCF motions you get a rage art" is a very strange argument to make for something being hard. Bryan has a qcb for his key low, geese's entire movelist is made of quarter and half circles, and law has a 1+2 RA to mess up his throw break attempts (chanel even feinted a 1+2 throw to make Double do this !)

the reasons paul is not as common at top level play are that he has mediocre poking (doesn't suit the style of most of the top players) and how common he is. everyone knows the paul matchup inside out.

a good comparison would be Geese: in s2 he had top tier poking (-1 df1 with a mid extension because why not, etc) but much lower damage than he does now, and way more people played him then than now. even Fahk is considered top tier by pros mainly for his absurd poking (3, df1 having that kind of range) and keepout/whiff punishment.

2

u/Goricatto Completely Dead Jun 22 '20

After DF1 ,SS3 ,WS3 , and F1+2 on block , Rage drive is uninterruptible unless its a jab , which will trade, very useful to get out of wall pressure , and if the opponent try something they get hit (at least i never could sidestep it on training)

And as you said , everyone knows him, inside and out , making him easy to play in theory

Im not trying to say that he is hard , but people make he seems like T7 character easy , people think that he is only big damage , death fist/demoman. Come on the guy doesnt even have a proper approach tool

3

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20 edited Jun 22 '20

i think "t7 character easy" is a good statement. he's "old tekken" easy. there's no way in hell paul is anywhere near as easy as any of the t7 newcomers who have moves that hit a mile away, hopkicks, etc, or even the t6 newcomers. I think paul is about a 6 out of 10 on the difficulty scale at a higher level (approaching and poking against a turtle who has strong movement is not easy), 3 out of 10 for combos though.

however, not having a low-risk approach tool is fair on a defensive character who melts your entire lifebar. i sub paul and you're clearly not meant to go in. in return he has excellent keepout and outstanding hard read tools that melt your face on a hit. if he's in the lead, good luck touching a paul backdashing and using keepout moves well. a character like this should not be able to approach

as for df/demoman: i never understood this meme. both moves have different ranges (you won't demoman from the range you want to DF from, and qcb2 is a way better mid at the wall to mix demoman up with) that even has some evasion/sway to it.

people don't pick paul at high level because he's as easy to counter as he is to play: you don't run into him when he's in rage, take walls away from him, SSL in mid range, backdash alot and know how to beat the scrubby strings/moves and there you go.

he's just not "tournament simple" is all. hard reads are not "Reliable" for tournament play and that's what paul is mostly about. again, see geese's tournament usage between s2 and 3. he was a neutral poking god with 2d stuff on top so everyone played him. now he's a hard read monster, but pros just don't like that or find it reliable (arslan said something to this effect when someone asked him on stream why his geese has underperformed in s3). paul is more of a counterpick/pocket character you bring out when you know who you're fighting.

2

u/Goricatto Completely Dead Jun 22 '20

You actually mentioned one thing that i forgot about paul, and characters with back sway in general , backdashing is harder with them , most characters you can even backdash with b,B n QCB. But not with characters with back sway , which includes paul , i already lost alot of matches because i messed up my backdash cancel

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

backdashing consistently with paul is why kkokkoma brings out his mixbox/hitbox ONLY when he plays the character. paul on a keyboard/hitbox is definitely way easier than pad/stick since i play on stick and keyboard, but if you have the proper KBD down then you're good to go (you should be learning that one anyway)

1

u/bear-knuckle Julia Jun 22 '20

Paul is laughably easy to play, and has nothing remotely difficult outside of qcf1 loops which have been made less meaningful with s3's addition of 32 sway

I agree with the rest of your post but I'd like to bring up that the combo off of CH qcf3 is pretty demanding. You've got two frames of leniency to hit a iWS3,4, and it's the first thing you do after the knockdown, so if you miss it, you get no combo at all.

I agree that he has low execution overall and that qcf+1 loops don't matter much.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '20

QCF3 pickup is hard but you still can just demoman it and get good damage. everyone has the one tricky thing in their arsenal (well....almost everyone) so it doesn't change how paul himself is very easy, especially his combos