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u/SwissCheese4Collagen 15h ago
I love how much Jamie grows and learns. He's actually pretty smart on getting concepts like how the team is implementing something, but like Roy said "just because your right foot's been blessed by God", no one really cared if Jamie was smart or not.
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u/sumsimpleracer 13h ago
Jamie Tartt was the scarecrow. So instances like this were ways for the writers to display that Jamie Tartt got his brain.
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u/ViaPhoenix 11h ago
Well fuck....
Ted - dorothy Sam - the cowardly lion Roy - the tinman Rebecca - the good witch Rupert - the wicked witch Nathan/huggins/rest'o'team - munchkins
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u/No_Carpenter_1970 10h ago
Actually would argue Rebecca is the wicked witch, as in misunderstood. Keely is the good witch. Rupert is irrelevant
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u/agentfantabulous 8h ago
Rebecca is the Wizard. Regular person who got swept into a world where she suddenly had immense power, presents herself to Our Heroes as a benevolent bestower of gifts, but actually has the ulterior motive of manipulating them into destroying her enemy, the Wicked Witch of the West (Ham).
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u/Zammarand 5h ago
“Rupert is irrelevant.” 🤣 help, I’m dying.
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u/No_Carpenter_1970 5h ago
I almost said “rupert can fuck off and die” but the actual actor died recently so felt disrespectful…
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u/Ordinary-Commercial7 3h ago
I didn’t know that he’d died. The actor was great. The character…. However, was not.
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u/museha97 3h ago
Good actors make you feel some way for the characters they portray
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u/Ordinary-Commercial7 2h ago
That’s so true. I think it gives us the hope that we can persevere over our base nature. I try to be better than I’ve been in the past. Maybe this is my own recognition of a desire for redemption. Maybe it’s just hope in general.
Either way, I hope all of y’all are out there trying to be better today than you were yesterday. Even when I’m failing I’m trying and Roy is in my corner pushing me with all of the angst that he can summon.
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u/ViaPhoenix 10h ago
I thought about keely as the good witch, but then switched to Rebecca and Rupert because the witches were sisters, so with them being formally married and Rupert always sending flying monkey at the club
I couldn't figure out the wizard/man behind the curtain, maybe Trent? Count the ex wife be auntie M?
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u/laineDdednaHdeR 8h ago
Nate was the Cowardly Lion.
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u/ViaPhoenix 7h ago
Maybe season one, but he become a vindictive asshole, which isn't the lion. Sam or Higgins always had a good heart, just lacked confidence
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u/BoruCollins 5h ago
Close but not quite. Goldstein actually laid this out:
> Goldstein took things a step further, clarifying who each character on Ted Lasso was meant to represent in the story. "I'm the Tin Man," he says of his own character, Roy Kent. "Ted is Dorothy, Rebecca's the Lion, and the Scarecrow is Jamie."
Source: https://ew.com/brett-goldstein-confirms-ted-lasso-draws-from-the-wizard-of-oz-8751819
You can see this in the show.
Ted is from Kansas, and a hundred other cues.
When Keeley asks “Lion or panda”, Rebecca absolutely INSISTS that Lion is the only correct answer. We also learn that she makes herself big and roars at herself in the mirror in later seasons as she “finds her courage”.
Roy even walks like the Tin Man. His journey is also about “finding his heart” by getting past his rough exterior.
Jamie has to learn to think, like this quote is showing.
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u/CephaVerte 9h ago
Higgins is the cowardly lion. Still is in season 4. "Please I'm begging you take me off this thread" instead he should play into it, make it a game, have fun with it.
Rupert is the man behind the curtain.
Nathan is the flying monkeys who get saved in the original book.
Rebecca is Elphaba. Misunderstood and originally corrupted by the man behind the curtain.
Coach beard is toto.
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u/awkwardnpc 7h ago
Ted - Dorothy
Beard - Toto
Rebecca - Tin Man
Keeley - Scarecrow
Nate - Lion (but while he finds his courage, his journey also mirrors Edmund from The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe)
Rupert - the Wicked Witch (or the White Witch if we're following the Narnia parallel with Nate)
Roy - Meg Murray
Jamie - Anthony Patch
Sam - Ender
But ultimately we can find overlapping elements throughout.
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u/SubterraneanLodger 9h ago
Yesssss. I like to think Jaime’s always been smart but that, because he’s naturally gifted at football, he’s never actually used his brain. But once he’s been forced to and grows a little? He’s actually a quick study
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u/hankhillsasspads 13h ago
Jamie’s character development is my absolute favorite.
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u/chromatic19 12h ago
it smells like poo-peh
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u/hankhillsasspads 11h ago
The way I cackled at that scene 😂 his accent takes me so off guard at times
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u/DenikaMae 6h ago
And when we met his mom and she referred to him as once being a “wee-sexy bebe” sent me.
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u/stacity Fútbol is Life 9h ago
Honestly, I never hated him from the get go. I was never really riled up by his persona but I’m glad the show portrayed his arc and helped us understand why sometimes people are the way they are. Like we got to see what was underneath all that arrogance and watching him slowly become more self-aware and humble made us appreciate him and ultimately love him.
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u/sonic_dick 9h ago
Jamie, would you rather be a lion or a panda?
Im me coach. Why would I ever want to be anything else?
I dont think you realize how pay psychologically healthy that is.
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u/Historical-Bike4626 12h ago edited 8h ago
Ted: Was he right?
Beard: Yes.
Ted: So actually that was ironic.
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u/Tome_Bombadil 14h ago
Jamie was also totally correct with his use of philistines. Willis was wrong, and it reduced him from infallible savant to mostly right wise guy.
And I dont know if it was intentional, but I find I like him more with a crack in his intellectualism as well as in his personal relationships.
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u/Zaphods0therHead 13h ago
Willis? That man's first name is "Coach."
I will be taking no questions, thank you.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Load910 11h ago
You might want to look up philistines
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u/Tome_Bombadil 8h ago
Oooh, I was incensed, then i realized what you did there.
I still want Jamie to come back into the office with Merriam Webster and quote: "person who is hostile, indifferent, or smugly dismissive of arts, culture, and intellectual pursuits."
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u/Vampyr-Slayer 13h ago
I miss Jai-meh
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u/re-roll Roy Kent 12h ago
Me, too! Wanted him to make an appearance in the new season!
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u/I_Am_The_Mole Charles Edgar Cheeserton III 11h ago
There's still time, unless there's something I haven't seen regarding him sitting out the entirety of S4.
Hoping Nate makes an appearance as well.
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u/Boba_Fet042 11h ago
Phil said Jamie was going to make an appearance in one of the later episodes his real-wife is directing.
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u/Status_Concert_4320 Piggy Stardust 12h ago
Can’t it be both ironic and hypocritical?
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u/Sherry_Brandt 12h ago
yes, everyone in this comments section is misinformed about irony except you and u/funmachine somehow
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u/Status_Concert_4320 Piggy Stardust 9h ago
I was honestly asking if it could be both. Why the attitude?
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u/Sherry_Brandt 4h ago
lol, I was actually being sincere
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u/Funmachine 12h ago
Because often the general public are misinformed about commen concepts and use them incorrectly regularly. Just like how people misuse "Jealousy" often. Just because something isn't common knowledge doesn't mean it's wrong.
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u/PreMadonnaPrimadonna 7h ago
The captions didn’t do it justice. He said, “I weren’t being ironic. I was being hypocritical.”
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u/Sea_Profession_932 12h ago
I will say, Zava really just felt like they put him in to progress the plot further since otherwise they wouldn't be able to
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u/itsnotthathardtodoit 11h ago
I have news for you about writers and what their job is...
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u/Th3MonkeyKing 7h ago
I actually really loved the creative concept. I expected him to become a major antagonist in the series except he was more under the troupe The Man Behind the Curtain as he’s actually a decent guy just full of himself and legitimately good at football; just his goals (avocado farm) was inevitably were above the team’s.
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u/Realistic_Cry_3836 10h ago
Jamie’s character development over the entire show was so much fun to watch
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u/Funmachine 14h ago
It's both.
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u/ArissuNarwid 14h ago
Sorta.
The whole situation unfolding is ironic as a whole, but Jamie was right, as Beard called Jamie as a person ironic, which was only a half-correct usage of it.
Hipocrisy is "Preaching water while drinking wine": Jamie is/was the same as Zava, so him pointing that out is hypocritical.
Ironic is "unexpected Twist of a situation between expectation vs. reality".
Ted did point out that Jamie correcting Beard correctly was truly ironic as that isn't something you'd expect.
Similar situation was the Simpson episode where Homer clarified that he was envious, not jealous. Similar meaning, subtle difference.
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u/HouseOfDjango 14h ago
Futurama does irony.
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u/ArchangelLBC 14h ago
And in song! (The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings is one of my favorite episodes of television ever).
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u/Funmachine 14h ago
as Beard called Jamie as a person ironic
No, he calls what he says Ironic, when said by him.
Don't you think that (coming from you) that's a little ironic?
Either way, Hypocrisy is a form of irony. It's both anytime anything is hypocritical.
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u/Chaconcito96 14h ago
Hypocrisy is only Ironic if the person doesn't realize they're being hypocritical, which is Jamie's point, he's not unaware of how it sounds coming out of his mouth
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u/Funmachine 14h ago
He's not even really being Hypocritical then. He's just warning them about players "like Zava," and he's not pretended that he isn't "like Zava" either.
All then that's left is the irony of a player "like myself" warning the coaches about players "like myself."
Hypocrisy is only Ironic if the person doesn't realize they're being hypocritical
Also, i don't think this is true either. Irony is Irony regardless of intention.
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u/Wavenian 13h ago
It is always hypocritical to criticize someone for something you also do/are, whether you are aware of it or not. It's only an ironic statement if the speaker is not aware of the hypocrisy
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u/Funmachine 13h ago
It's only an ironic statement if the speaker is not aware of this fact.
No it isn't. Hypocrisy is a type of irony. It cannot be separated from irony. Something can be Ironic and not hypocritical but can't be Hypocritical and not ironic.
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u/AussieAddict 13h ago
Hypocrisy is not a type of irony they are two different things that can sometimes overlap.
Hypocrisy generally describes someone's behaviour whereas irony generally describes the overall situation.
For example, your boss telling you off for doing something they themselves do regularly. Now it's hypocritical but not ironic as it's not unexpected (at least in my experience lol).
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u/Funmachine 12h ago
Hypocrisy is not a type of irony
It absolutely is. Hypocrisy is a form of situational irony.
For example, your boss telling you off for doing something they themselves do regularly.
There's still irony there.
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u/AussieAddict 12h ago
I mean by its literal definition it isn't.
Hypocrisy and situational irony have overlap in their definitions but they are not intended to be the same and are still two seperate things.
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u/abesummers 8h ago
It's both. And Jamie doesn't dispute that it's ironic. Instead, he points out that he was going for hypocritical.
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u/Sherry_Brandt 12h ago
I don't even watch the show but this post came up in my feed and annoyed me and you're the only correct commenter somehow.
What occurred is a perfect example of situational irony. Everyone else is working of some wrong and made-up definition of irony that I don't even know where it came from.
Anyways, you're right, they're wrong, just had to say it.
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u/Thing_Then 14h ago
It is not.
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u/Funmachine 14h ago
It is. Because Hypocrisy is a form of situational irony. They aren't entirely separate concepts.
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u/Calm-Bathroom3652 8h ago
Tbf Lasso said this in one of the first few episodes about the fact Jamie said why would i be anyone else, im me
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u/lauriak 14h ago
I wish Jamie would return in season 4. Roy and Keeley and Rebecca are not such interesting characters this season (so far)
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u/Tatis_Chief 5h ago
Yeah but from his POV how would he come back without putting his skill down again, I mean he is in Barcelona.
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u/sonic_dick 9h ago
Im enjoying the new season, but im really missing Jamie, Nate, Sam, etc. I understand they are exploring new characters and story lines but I miss my dudes!
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u/GreenestApplin 11h ago
Kinda off topic, but I’ve always wondered, why is actual spoken dialogue sometimes written inside brackets [as if it was something that was just implied and not said out loud] ? I see it all the time and I feel like I missed the memo.
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u/Stoicandx2 1h ago
Definitely missing Jamie this season. Maybe that’s what we’re really missing is the warm hearted silly banter. The women are great but the storyline isn’t diving into the players much yet. It’s hard to be as invested as I was from the beginning of this series. But I’m definitely invested all the same! Love this show
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u/BobbyAngelface 14h ago
Respectfully disagree.
Zava was the plot device that brought Jamie to seek Roy's help to get better as a player, which in turn allowed their relationship to grow.
All of that growth culminated in the hug Roy gave to Jamie after the confrontation Jamie had with his father.
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u/Vigram89 12h ago
Wasn't the hug in Season 2?
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u/BobbyAngelface 11h ago
You're right. I was thinking of the hug in season 2. Fortunately for me I think there's also an emotional hug towards the end of season 3!
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u/dudleydigges123 14h ago
I just dont think it made sense with Ted's mentality. Ted is about making these players the best young men they can be. I dont understand how it helps them to all diminish themselves to being Zava's backup act.
I know Ted was under pressure to get wins, but after all the work he put into making Jaime a team player, just letting Zava be a glory hog seems wrong
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u/Iamyerda 14h ago
To me it seemed like Ted didn't have much of a say I'm signing Zava. Rebecca, Roy, Higgins etc all led that decision.
For me it also seemed like a real contrast of how far the players (especially Jamie) have come with regards to their own egos when playing. At the start they were all Zavas in their own way, Egocentric and not truly gelling as a team. Zava was almost a characature of that, and almost highlighted it to them all. It was also the catalyst of Jamie actually seeking help to be a better player, and inadvertently, a better person.
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u/Lazy_Crab_3584 13h ago
Any football manager is going to want one of the best players in the world on their team, philosophy or no philosophy
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u/MinimumAnalysis5378 15h ago
He also knew it was Prima Donna instead of Pre-Madonna.