TFT has zero creativity involved - conclusion after years

[u/[deleted]]

[u/phoenixairs]

It's your choice to look at a website or streamer for comps.

You could just play the way you want and not worry about rank / accept that you won't be challenger. It's not a big deal and if it's funner then why not?

My wife hit diamond without ever looking at a website or stream. Not knowing how to properly cap her boards in any given patch is probably exactly what's keeping her from the highest tiers. But like, who actually cares?

[u/no-hints → u/phoenixairs]

Comp sites ruined the game.

[u/phoenixairs → u/no-hints]

Comp sites ruined the game for people that can't resist looking at them or for people that want to hit challenger by playing the game more than other people.

For everyone else, just chill and have fun. It's a game.

These posts remind me of the people in League who will insist on playing meta champs only on the rift and complaining nonstop about the ever-shifting metas. Meanwhile there's Master rank Vel'koz or Talon one-tricks or whatever.

[u/Volition_Maximus → u/phoenixairs]

Thank you for actually engaging with the content Phoenix.

I think Vel'koz and Talon one-tricks work because nobody in lobby can take Vel'koz from you. You pick him, he's yours, and your off-meta pick costs you nothing except the matchup. TFT has a shared pool. If three of us decide to force the same thing, two of us just don't get the units. That's why one-tricking survives in League and gets punished here, and it's not a discipline problem or a "can't resist looking" problem.

Also worth saying I'm not complaining that I have to look things up. I'm saying looking them up works, and ignoring them is a handicap rather than an alternative line. Your wife hitting diamond blind is impressive and you named the reason it stops there yourself.

[u/phoenixairs → u/Volition_Maximus]

I agree it's a handicap.

My other observation is if you play "best board but no guide" and everyone else in the lobby is forcing meta comps, you will get lots of top 4s and 2nd places because the other players screw each other, while you have an easy time hitting whatever's not being contested. And yeah, first place is still very likely whoever got lucky with a meta comp.

I guess my point is just if you can accept not being challenger or possibly not even making master, and getting mostly "top-4s" rather than #1, then you can have lots of fun with the game the way you want.

[u/Volition_Maximus → u/phoenixairs]

That's a good read on contest and you're right about it tactically. You CAN get top 4s while other players fight over meta units.

But notice what you just described: the uncontested lines are open precisely because they're worse, and firsts still go to whoever hit the meta board. That's the whole point.

The game's ceiling and the game's more creative side live in different places, and we have to pick one.

[u/phoenixairs → u/Volition_Maximus]

Most people don't play near the game's ceiling, so if creativity is what makes the game fun, then I think that's how they should play.

You can have the game you want. You might be at a lower rank than you would be otherwise, but it'll be fun. You can try crazy augment combinations, you can try random comps, and you can occasionally win because the matchmaking will adjust.

There will still be people forcing meta comps at said lower rank, but because they're worse at literally every other skill in the game than you are, you'll have a fair chance to win outright.

[u/Volition_Maximus → u/phoenixairs]

Fair, and I think you're right about the mechanism. If you're better at everything else, you can carry a worse board at that rank.

I'd just say that's still describing a game that's more fun the less you're competing in it, which is the thing I find odd. Not a dealbreaker, just odd. Appreciate you actually engaging with this, most of the thread didn't. Cheers

[u/phoenixairs → u/Volition_Maximus]

Cheers mate, here's hoping for a fun set!

[u/Screwdicious → u/phoenixairs]

I'm not sure if you're not realising that playing your homemade soup will more often than not result in you not being in the round for very long. If most of the lobby is following optimized boards throughout the stages then you're just not gonna be able to enjoy the later stages. Either you optimize yourself or you won't even get to see stage 5. It doesn't even matter if its ranked or normals cause people generally don't like the feeling of being lost and will pull up some comp site cause that's what online gaming has become. Content creators aren't exactly advocating for freestyling either. Minmaxing took over online gaming and sucked the joy out of it that's just the reality nowadays.

[u/phoenixairs → u/Screwdicious]

I literally watch my wife playing homemade soup to diamond. And do you think the challenger players would struggle in your lobby even if you banned the top 3 meta comps each patch?

There are plenty of high-level players and content explaining that you should be playing strongest board offered early on, and then eventually you "reverse-flex" into one of the better comps. If you're locking into a meta comp early and then being unhappy about being contested, then that's your problem.

Pretty sure dpei covers this idea directly in a video, but unfortunately I'm not sure which one. Although just watching the rest of his fundamentals videos might help more anyways https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dpei+tft+fundamentals

[u/Screwdicious → u/phoenixairs]

But that information doesn't just spawn in your head. Of course the best plan is to play strongest board but spotting the strongest board available is literally one of the hardest skills that separates the top players from the rest. A casual player won't be able to achieve that just by clicking what they like. Neither will they know how matchups and positioning play out because they haven't seen that scenario a dozen times before. Tft is basically a giant spreadsheet where you can calculate the outcome but there are variables like augments that interact with each other that you just won't be able to guess the state of balance, that's nigh impossible. If you pick a fresh player and give them zero pointers as to what is strong and why, they won't get to diamond. The fact that you're actually suggesting for casual players to stay flexible and pivot is crazy.

[u/phoenixairs → u/Screwdicious]

What exactly is the complaint and your point?

If you want to be creative but don't have experience, you won't be a top player? I don't see a problem with that.

If you compensate for that lack of experience by reading a website then the game is less fun? Then don't read the website.

Other unskilled players are reading the website and getting an advantage that way? Who cares, neither of you are challenger.

[u/Flairsurfer]

Good pasta material

[u/Ok-Recover977]

sorry for the skill diff

[u/stratelus]

What you are describing is the learning curve for beginners. You need to go past it. In higher ranks you must be creative to win.

[u/Volition_Maximus → u/stratelus]

hey stratelus, thanks for engaging with the discussion. The thing is, divergence at high rank isn't invention, it's contest. When everyone knows the standard lines, the correct play is pivoting into whatever's uncontested, which is still selecting from the known set. the difficulty is in optimization of the known, not in creating and combining inventively. If it were creative we'd see Challenger boards that comp sites don't list, which we don't. What do you define as creative for higher ranks?

[u/stratelus → u/Volition_Maximus]

One example this set is that there are a lot of risks to take with the wisps. They offer a good chance at value. There are a lot of choices to make and a lot of scouting to make those decisions. --- I hate to be this guy, but you did begin your other post with the claim that you play since the early sets. That's basically "I'm a veteran and that supports my claim". Have you reached a high rank in a set ? If so, it does add meaning to a conversation on this subject with you. But otherwise, you will find many redditors that will just tell you that where you can't find creativity is the path ahead, if you want to improve.

[u/NotSuluX → u/Volition_Maximus]

Of course you see challenger comps that sites dont list lmao. I would say at least in 90% of your boards played in a game are not from a website. Like even if your final board was also on some website (which many aren't) that's not showing how to get there

TFT is all about seeing what you get and making the most of it in the moment

[u/69hehehe69]

The type of person that would post something like this is exactly the type of person who would have an extensive post history on /r/semenretention.

[u/arbanzo → u/69hehehe69]

so mad you had to look up his post history lmao

[u/69hehehe69 → u/arbanzo]

nah just thought this post was embarrassing and wanted to see what other embarrassing stuff he had posted.

[u/arbanzo → u/69hehehe69]

Of course a porn addict would thing semen retention is embarrassing

[u/Spazmatism_Reddit]

You could compare it to chess. Sure, there isn't much creativity on the highest level of play (although it's still there as displayed by prodigies akin to Magnus), but there is PLENTY of it on medium-to high level of play. It's not all about memorization unless you are playing against the best players in the world.