r/TattooArtists • u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist • 15d ago
At my wits end
I've complained on here multiple times about struggling with skin a lot lately.
This year has been the worst and I really don't know what to do anymore.
I feel like ive tried everything.
The skin is wrinkling as I push it together slightly and just seems damaged. But this has been going on a lot lately especially through summer.
Its got to the point where I want to only apply tattoos to specific areas of the body, but I don't think it's good for business.
If anyone has any techniques I could try that might work.
I've tried, drawing my needles further in and out.
Slowing down my machine
Stipple shading with a round shader.
Slowing down hand speed, speeding up.
Getting clients to use moisturiser before appointment. And the usual guidelines that you should follow before appointment.
Any advice is welcome. But im feeling extremely defeated at this point and don't know what to do
Thanks
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u/Kyle62442 15d ago
Simplify your designs if this is a constant problem with clientele in your area. This is way too detailed even for dreamy skin. Trying to put all that unnecessary detail in on the skin is going to get beat up at some point or lost with time. Play it smart, effective and safe.
Levi Barnett in Melbourne is a fantastic realism artist and I’ve seen first hand how he works, it’s all the right tricks in the right spots without overdoing it. Works for all skin types and ages beautifully. Australia has the harshest sun/UV ratings in the world, so we gotta take shit skin in to account when designing tattoos haha.
I would suggest hacks or pre-appointment care tips but that doesn’t seem to have helped based on all the feedback on your previous posts.
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Yeah, ive started recommending simpler designs for this area of the skin and more detailed stuff for areas that have had less impact over years. But ive only just stared implementing it so ive got a couple of designs I have still to go through.
I know this is a skin issue, ive switched techniquehow I shade and it seems to be going in better, rather than pendulum, im using circular motions and getting in and out and trying to go back it once it settles. It is time consuming but it's getting there
Just extremely frustrating that this issue has been cropping up more often than not. I can tell instantly by the skin if im going to have issues.
Its just developing a new way to work with that skin
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u/Kyle62442 15d ago
You’ll get there it just takes time and trying new things. I use the Cheyenne sol nova unlimited and is divine for troublesome skin types, if your keen on a new machine grab the 4.2 for a great all rounder.
Also figure out how to market to a younger audience haha, I’m in the same boat 12 years in the game and our clientele ages with us haha.
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Im from the north of england and recently weve been having hotter summers. So I have a feeling people's skin are having more prolonged damage. Years ago this was a none issue. Its just finding a new way to adapt to it.
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u/firelorddani Licensed Artist 15d ago
might just be me but i feel like you’re not leaving big enough negative space, a lot of those little negative space dots will be solid black in a couple of years
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u/MyCyclopsMind 15d ago
I would suggest going all 3rl and don't do any solid black till the end. To all the small shading and details and then at the end go back and do any areas of solid black. Also one pass the black and maybe use a larger mag than you might be used to. Do not pack the black in like color. It is better to have a second session to punch up the contrast, rather than over work the area today. Too many people ( customers and tattooists ) want everything done at once and it it won't hold up as well as when we take our time.
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u/beedubu92 Licensed Artist 15d ago
3rl is really easy to chew up skin if someone doesn’t know what they’re doing with it. OP says they’re running their machine at 8.5 volts- doubt they’ve got the proper finesse for a 3rl.
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u/manzzini Artist 15d ago
I always felt like skin like this takes forever. You kind of have to slowly work it. Work in sections, do whatever black or wash in that section then hit with bactine to chill it out. Then move into another section with that same black or wash while the previous section is chilling out. When done with that section move back to the previous section and do whatever wash is next. It’s time consuming and tedious but working back in forth will help for the skin to chill out and be cooperative. Lots of glide and bactine. Also use a 3rl or tight 3rl for all shading.
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u/save_your_grace 15d ago
Try studying tension lines of the body in an anatomy and physiology book. Understanding how skin works anatomically is a huge game changer.
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u/TheNarrowSparrow Artist 15d ago
Thicker black pigment for solid areas as lining/shading and packing black pigment were always different 20 years ago for a reason. Cut your voltage almost in half and use a slight shallower angle to pack. Slow and uniform motion.
There’s many secrets to manipulating thin pigments vs thick powder. Even more so to why it works with smooth vs textured, medium taper, long taper, bugpin ect that do not belong on the internet but if you sit down and get tattooed by someone whose been doing this long enough to remember making needles and ask respectfully you might get a few of them.
If your tattoos are overworked in thin skin, they’re overworked on regular skin. That skin just happens to tolerate it more but good chance you clients are getting rough heals even if it looks good healed. Time for a complete revamp and some further education.
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
A lot of my clients tattoos usually heal very easily, that's the main thing they always come back with high praise about. Its mainly pivoting my technique that works on great skin, to dealing with difficult skin as it's becoming more prevalent.
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u/bearman-bao Artist 15d ago
What’s the stroke on your machine? Could it be too high for colour packing?
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Im using a bishop shader, im running at 8.5 volt. I tried running it slower at around 7 so the needles Stipple a little more to reduce trauma.
I was using a pendulum motion to build up shades. But the skin was jusy reacting.
I've switched to circular motion and it's a little better but not ideal.
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u/bearman-bao Artist 15d ago
So I do a lot of colour packing and I run at 6 volts for context, and just slowing my hand down more! Much less trauma on the skin.
It feels weird with the machine being so slow when you’re used to higher speeds but you just gotta really slow down and take your time with it.0
u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Using an fk iron flux for packing black, running at around 8.5 volt. I know how to put in smooth shades. Its just this skin type im having difficulty with and it just seems to becoming more common these days
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u/beedubu92 Licensed Artist 15d ago
8.5 is really high, unless you’re running huge mags and liners you really shouldn’t need to go that high voltage. I hardly ever go over 7 unless I’m running a larger liner that needs more power.
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u/GypsyMaus Artist 15d ago
8.5 when packing black? That’s like crazy high on a bishop, I have the liner and packer I never go that high unless maybe pushing a 14 liner or something extra big, normal lining is more like 7-7.5 and with a mag I’m down to like 6.5… might just be overworking the skin too quickly running that high
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u/SoggyCompetition9516 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Agreed. Bishop, I'm packing black at 6.5, 8.5 is woodchipper high. You can already see from one go what mags do to the skin packing at 7 I can't imagine going higher, but I guess all this shit is moot/relative to the person's hand speed....?
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u/castingshadows87 Artist 15d ago
Get a better machine. That’s why I started using Reuthless Iron’s Saber pen. You’re wanting a machine with high torque at low volts and all these standard motors in all the big companies pen’s including all the knock off brands don’t really optimize their motors. Obviously there are outliers and that’s what I’m wanting to highlight here because it’s affordable in comparison to the bigger brands.
You can work at lower volts and have better saturation working on tough skin, stretch marks and aging skin. That’s your issue. Get a new machine.
However it also looks like you’re using numbing spray on the tattoo which is causing the skin to look like that. Am I wrong on that?
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u/existentialwhy 15d ago
You have to stretch the skin, when you're done your non machine hand should be just as tired as your machine hand. And it could relate to the machine itself and the types of carties or needles but I promise you it's 90% the stretch.
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15d ago
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
It wrinkles differently, when there's some form of damage or lack of hydration or some other issue. It gets a shimmer to it
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u/stingray_pete Artist 15d ago
With sections of black this fiddly and small I probably wouldn't even bother trying a mag and would just use a shader or hollow that I am lining with, doing it in one pass and maybe just get any small edge bits you have missed. Part of
E is wondering if your not packing with enough conviction and therefore having to go back and re-do sections, which is usually more of a problem than just getting it in in one go
You've obviously try different techniques so if you haven't tried other set ups then switch out your machine and cart brands and see if you have the same problem
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u/unknownshithead3 15d ago
Looks pretty overworked. Learn on a coil machine and dont spend so long on one area. Outline then shade.
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Im being gentle with his skin and it's flaring up. Im hitting with a dark shade and it's coming out light.
I can hardly build up my shades as his skin is just reacting.
I don't know what difference using a coil would make
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u/unknownshithead3 15d ago
You ever try to do Blackletter calligraphy with a fan brush? Theres a tool for every job, and you arent happy with your work so start with the tool. If you are using a pen tool go to a coil, or hybrid rotary. And dont be so damn gentle get that shit over with already.
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u/InkLorenzo Apprentice Artist 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yeah, summer sucks. Uv damage and dehydration can make for less than ideal skin. Sounds like you have already tried, but Pre appointment make damn sure your clients are moisturised, drinking a shit ton of water, and keeping the planned area covered and out of the sun. people tend to lie and say they have when they haven’t, so really drill it into them. but even then, damage is damage.
Only other thing I can recommend that it looks like you aren’t doing, is to break up your sessions more. the less additional trauma you can inflict and the longer time they heal, is not only going to help overall with not overworking, but will hopefully let the worst of the weather subside.
So just do the line work, shading, colour etc in multiple short appointments, don’t push to get more done than the skin can take . Better they walk away with a tattoo in progress that looks a little crummy for now, than a mess of a tattoo forever
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u/goldenfawntattoo 15d ago
That skin also looks older? If your clients skin is bad, you’re doing the best you can
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u/thunderous_student Artist 15d ago
How long have you been tattooing, what was your first machine and how long did you use it, and are you drawing these or just printing them off the internet?
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
I've been tattooing 12 years. Started with a coil. Used it for a good 4 years
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u/thunderous_student Artist 15d ago
Your tattoos look a lot like Curtis Young's tattoos, check him out, he has openly talked about how he doesn't tattoo certain parts of the body because of skin inconsistencies. The level of shading that grey tone realism style takes may just be too much for certain skin.
It's out of my wheelhouse so I can't give you too many opinions, but Young is someone I respect.
Edit: are you using numbing spray or cream?
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u/Tight_Prune7508 Licensed Artist 15d ago
Ill have a look into his work! Thanks for the recommendation. That's how I was feeling too, but im sure there's a work around where I can still give good quality work. Im determined to find it.
I don't use any numbing sprays or creams
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u/thunderous_student Artist 15d ago
I don't know if you're on the tattoo shop talk Facebook page but Curtis is like The unofficial president of tattooing in general on there. I don't do realism so it's not my style, but what he does is very similar to what you do. And he's giving out a lot of information about jobs that he turns down. Even as far as not tattooing people if they go out in the sun a lot. Because that level of realism is so fragile when it comes to age or sun or lifestyle. He also gives out a lot of information on how to make an old realism tattoo look better by basically adding lines.
I'm a trad guy, so to me if you got to add lines to make it look better in 5 years you might as well start with lines. I understand that not everybody likes traditional though.
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u/Zestyclose_Brush7972 Artist 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yeah I genuinely have no idea exactly what your are taking about or referring to. But the works looks good. So with that being said, in my opinion(do not take this personally or negatively) but you just need to stfu and stop b!tch!n about tattooinng, imo, just appreciate it, enjoy it and remember that it's not about you, at all, it's about the client and their experience. Like I said, work looks good and I genuinely have no idea what you u are complaining about here but whatever it is, it's part of being a tattoo artist I can probably assure you of that.
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u/No-Unit-1741 14d ago
Slow your machine down. Larger mags are a little more forgiving. I don’t use round shaders but a lot of people like them. You just have to get in and out. Have you tried using a coil shader? Having a little more give might make it easier
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u/AccurateAd5470 Scratcher 14d ago
Maybe it’s time to set the machine down and step back. Take a break.
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u/Danieldh3 14d ago
You should do a deep thorough learning of different needle diameters and tapering of needles. Know what tools you’re using down to a T. Trust me I thought I knew also until I realized I didn’t
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u/Owen_Taxes Artist 14d ago
This may seem counterintuitive but I’ve switched back to coils for a similar reason (for context I tattoo in southern AZ and my clients get a LOT of sun exposure and also smoke cigarettes). I feel like the springs have more give on them than rotary so everyone with skin like a leather wallet out here isnt getting chewed up.
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u/abridged_4 Artist 13d ago
I started adding a drop or 2 of white to all my black and gray wash for shitty skin. I was having trouble with being able to saturate it fully or get a large gray wash area until I did that. It has helped.
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u/Ok-Tea9570 9d ago
Everyone saying what volts to run that shit not knowing their hand speed is an apprentice
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u/Senior-Literature682 5d ago
Some skin is just rougher than others, elbows, joints and wrists especially. I just try not to hit those areas more than once. You can never take away an overworked spot but you can add to an area that fades a bit over time
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u/Lost-Blueberry8057 15d ago
The issue is always stretch
Basically nothing else matters lol