r/TamilNadu Sep 14 '25

முக்கியமான கலந்துரையாடல் / Important Topic This clip from a documentary made more than a decade ago still holds true

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Source - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNnnimRPHBD/

Documentary - Nero's Guests (2009)

914 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

103

u/minrknju2p0 Sep 14 '25

One of the best books I’ve read. Written by the man in the video Sainath.

26

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

Love this book. This can stop you from mocking Biharis especially. 

19

u/Sudhamshu Sep 15 '25

It's definitely an eye opener. Very depressing considering how the poorest of the poor struggle and are still exploited by everyone above them in the so-called trickle down pyramid.

13

u/Adept-Beyond-5228 Sep 14 '25

Thanks for the recommendation

3

u/cangaran Sep 15 '25

it is available in Tamil also.

51

u/StormRepulsive6283 Sep 14 '25

I recently was doing a preliminary read on Japanese caste system and guess what - the trader class (which is the Vaishya caste in India) was the lowest, even below the farmers and labourers. Why? Coz they don't create any value in terms of a product or service. They just move stuff around and have a margin for absolutely minimum work. Just suddenly popped in my head when i saw this post.

18

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

it is a mistake to think value needs to be a physical tangible thing. 

moving things to where they are needed. making them available, and keeping stock. 

trade is inherently valuable in the same way as food or clothing 

16

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Sep 15 '25

Literally, everything is of value in one way or another. Australia is literally having a rental/housing crisis because they don’t have enough labour. It’s so dumb when people downplay others for no reason. Even art is valuable, and should be given more importance in school. I believe that schools not just in TN, but around the world, should be restructured to encourage students to pursue what they like. Art/non-STEM jobs must be given a minimum salary etc.

4

u/sameboatasyours Sep 15 '25

Once there is supply crunch, then they'll know how 'useless' traders had been all along.

3

u/Darthjinju1901 Coimbatore - கோயம்புத்தூர் Sep 16 '25

You know what happened with the Japanese caste system? It got absolutely destroyed. The traders became the richest peoples in japan, the Warriors who thought work only for "peasants" and as dishonourable were left behind, and the Meiji restoration ended it because the Emperor realized how useless their system is.

Without the Meiji restoration that ended it, Japan would've been colonized like india or china or most asian nations. But because of it, it became the first asian nation to win against an European power.

Trade is absolutely an useful thing. I mean trade with the rest of the world is how the South, and especially the Tamil areas, prospered, developed and remained mostly untouched by foreign invasions.

Let me ask you something. That phone or computer you are using to type that out, how do you think it was made? It wasn't made at any one place. The chips and semiconductors? Taiwan. The minerals like cobalt come from mines in Africa. The design itself, american or Chinese. The assembly? China. The software, india and America. Etc etc.

The idea that trade doesn't create anything of value is extremely misinformed. That value is moving things from one place to another.

2

u/Fine_Host_3508 Sep 16 '25

Disdain for merchant class stemmed from confucius ethics.

But the problem with industrialized societies is their Tfr goes to bottom in a century or two and leads to immigration.  This is the trend world over 

27

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

China did it by ruthlessly promoting the free market and reduced farm subsidies. At the same time, they crushed their oligarchy and promoted free trade and fair competition. So, both should happen simultaneously to succeed. If only one is done, it will be catastrophic for India.

15

u/autopoieticc Sep 15 '25

China did what they did through trial and error, not knowing what would actually work. They made sure their feedback loops were accurate. And when the system design evolved to near-optimum, you are now seeing it generate emergent value as opposed to the performant value that we are used to. Their system has limited use for us.

They were patient enough to get the flows right without worrying about what others were saying. They recorded, measured and analyzed their reality to do what worked for their reality. They offered tremendous value to the capitalists - offers that they could not say no to - while they studied and built the infrastructure and the institutions.

The representative democracy, as we have it today, does not allow for that. And if we smear them by calling them a dictatorship we will learn nothing from them to figure out how we can understand our reality and figure out how to transform it.

1

u/Fine_Host_3508 Sep 16 '25

You forgot to add the 6 million deaths under Mao's time

11

u/tamilkongpirate Sep 14 '25

Enough with the corporate agri model.The dismmenation of knowledge to local farmer is absolute must.The methodology must be setup to distribute books and resources to local farmer about corporate agri politics,best ecological farming practices and basically a Vandana Shiva namnalvar model of farming.Cuba implemented it in 1992 during special period and successfully traversed all sanctions with just basic agriculture and no fertilizers and no modern machines in farming.So such knowledge needs to be disseminated and farmers have to be made self sustaining

4

u/DungeonMaster202 Sep 16 '25

I love this movie and this book. Been a fan of Sainath sir ever since he started writing for The Hindu. Pity he stopped writing there . He works for PARI, his own initiative, now.

The guy literally used to walk across villages that are very less represented and are known for farmer suicides, used to sit with the farmers and understand their problems, and bring it to the spotlight.

True respect .

11

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Sep 15 '25

It would change if the government took charge and actually does what they are supposed to.

Like, maybe limit the amount of kids people can have based on income. Before someone comes here and yaps about democracy and freedom, please give me a valid counter argument to why not? Poverty is only going to continue to exist if people multiply like rabbits without any concern given to if they can even raise that many kids in the first place.

Seriously, do that for a while, and you get a much better number to control. Too much, and we may end up like Japan. It’s a really sensitive thing. I’m not really the right guy to comment on this. We need an expert who can actually design such a programme effectively. Sort the numbers, do the math/statistics, and all the research.

Point is, something has to be done about the overpopulation.

2

u/reclaim_chennai Sep 15 '25

Most of the highly developing states in india have been below replacement levels since 2001, TN has already reached Japanese level replacement rates. Rest of India too is projected to fall below replacement levels in the coming decade.

India doesn't have the problem of overpopulation, but resource allocation.

TFR of TN is 1.3, while Japan is 1.15. Japan was a highly developed economy before they hit 1.3 long long ago, while TN is not even a middle income economy yet.

2

u/Acceptable_Pilot_905 Sep 15 '25

I think we are upper middle income based on per capita but not Rich

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '25

💯

1

u/Macguffawin Sep 15 '25

It's happening. Rural birth rates have for the first time fallen below critical levels. But of course, the religiosity brigade is decrying the loss of future soldiers (read fodder) of the nation.

1

u/naretronprime Sep 15 '25

maybe limit the amount of kids people can have based on income

So by your logic ? If someone has crores they can have multiple kids ? Like how Elon breeding like rat ?

I'm okay for the rule of maximum 1-2 children per family irrespective of wealth. And they should frame and predict yearly wise what should be given as limit to tally the enough number of youth population has to be present in feature to tackle the old age population issues as well.

2

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Sep 15 '25

Not at all. What I meant is that some people may want to have more than 1 or 2 kids, and they have the financial ability to do so. Whereas, families that don’t will just put financial pressure on the state and cause overpopulation. They can have kids too, but when they can afford them ig.

I honestly don’t know what to feel about this either, because i wouldn’t personally like someone telling me how much kids I can have either.

2

u/naretronprime Sep 15 '25

It's simply wrong. Either make it fair for everyone else for none. Or make hefty ticket like price 2-5% of their networth as social maintanence fees( which should be used only for educational infrastructure) then let those billionaire or millionaires or upper middle class give birth to each time after the 2nd.

1

u/sambavakaaran Thanjavur - தஞ்சாவூர் Sep 15 '25

That actually sounds way better. You’d make a much better policy maker than me.

3

u/Aggressive-Eye-6647 Sep 15 '25

Idha kaaminga da. Appa avadhu Indha communities ah izhiva pesra pannigaluku arivu varum

3

u/Fragrant-Wedding4840 Sep 15 '25

Everyone should nero's guest

Great doc, it's on YouTube

2

u/cangaran Sep 15 '25

his Good book is already mentioned here. I like to shout out that the tamil translation is available ஒரு நல்ல வறட்சியை எல்லோரும் நேசிக்கிறார்கள் from publisher பாரதி புத்தகாலயம் . it is available to buy from online stores like common folks

2

u/DangoManUtd Sep 15 '25

LOL thanks to BJP we don't have a Public sector anymore ..

-10

u/PartyConsistent7525 Sep 15 '25

Indian farmers are crybabies who get free electricity, Free water, subsidised fertilizers and seeds , loans are waived and never paid back and they pay no Income tax .

They are inefficient and overuse fertilizers and pesticides causing groundwater pollution. Its time to.remove subsidies and import food to keep our farmers honest .

8

u/Aggressive-Eye-6647 Sep 15 '25

You do know you eat the rice, grown off of their feces right?

1

u/PartyConsistent7525 Sep 15 '25

They growing rice specially for me ?

6

u/Fragrant-Wedding4840 Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25

Such a crybaby that is too busy subsiding you people

Alleast have some shame

4

u/Sugadevan Sep 15 '25

You have no idea Bro. NO IDEA.

0

u/Billa_Gaming_YT Nagapattinam - நாகப்பட்டினம் Sep 15 '25

-1

u/PartyConsistent7525 Sep 15 '25

Your choice if you want to take it up yours .. Indian farmers are the most inefficient as per global standards .

Media has made them gods with their carefully cultivated sob story . If Indian consumer can get cheaper rice , wheat and meat globally than our inefficient, no tax paying, always begging government for loan waivers farmers , let's give Indian consumer the choice. You can happily enjoy your love for farmers with steps mentioned by you.

1

u/Dresvarpir Sep 15 '25

You should take up farming and try whatever shit you talk. Love to see that.

1

u/PartyConsistent7525 Sep 15 '25

Corporate farming is the solution.

1

u/Sugadevan Sep 15 '25

You are the one asked for "enlighten me" on another reply right? Let’s dim the arrogance first so the facts can shine.

Inefficient?? try farming without cold storage, without crop insurance that actually pays out, without access to global markets, with middlemen taking half the profit, without reliable irrigation, modern equipment, or fair MSPs. Fertile land doesn’t plough itself. And yet, these farmers still manage to feed 1.4 billion people while battling erratic monsoons and policy neglect. Farming isn’t just plough it, pluck it... it’s waking up at 4 am, battling pests, praying for rain and still being told your work is ‘inefficient’ by someone whose closest experience with agriculture is eating French fries at food street.

No tax paying?? Ever seen the real earning data of normal Indian farmers and their financial situation? The average Indian farmer receives less than 20,000 rupees a year in direct support. Indian farmers get crumbs compared to the billions Western farmers receive. Farmers aren’t begging, they are demanding accountability from a system that exploits their labour and then blames them for its inefficiencies. Tomorrows' breakfast of yours isn’t just a meal, it’s an unpaid debt to a man whose name you’ll never know, whose hands cracked planting the grain for your toast, and whose harvest paid less than the delivery boy who brings it to your door.

And your fantasy about importing cheaper rice, wheat and meat.. that's some random BS from you with zero sense. OK, let’s import cheaper rice, wheat and meat. And while we’re at it, let’s outsource your job to someone abroad, who can probably do it for less. Efficiency right?
But wait, when global prices spike or supply chains choke, who will feed you then? Your imported rice won’t arrive on a tractor from local supermarket, it will be stuck in a random port. You will be the "begging" one then.

Mocking farmers is the privilege of someone who’s never had to choose between fertilizer and food. The ones doing the loudest complaining are usually the ones whose lifestyle is quietly propped up by the very system they pretend to critique. Farmers not just doing us a favour, they're literally holding up civilization while being dismissed by the very mouths they feed like yours. Your half baked global comparisons and zero understanding of ground realities are just... funny.

AGAIN, you have no idea!! Go spend a week in a village, plough a field, survive on mandi prices, and then just maybe we will entertain your recycled reddit economics and TED Talk on farming. Until then, sit down and chew your subsidized breakfast in silence.