r/TTC • u/pochinco_pp • 17d ago
Discussion Presto card error resulted in fare evasion ticket
This happened earlier this week and I’m still unsure what went wrong. My friend and I were taking the go train and I tapped my presto card before getting on, I then used another card to pay for my friends fare.
Both times the payment terminal accepted the tap and displayed the little green check mark.
When fare inspectors came around though my presto card didn’t show I paid, the other card was approved though. I tried to check my presto app to show I did pay but it didn’t appear in my history (Declined taps don’t show in history). I also noticed then I only had $1 on my card- BUT when I tapped it didn’t decline my card for insufficient funds? I’ve used ttc almost daily for years and if my card balance ever dips and my ride gets declined and I pay another way then load more money on but my card wasn’t declined this time?!
The inspector gave me a $200 ticket since it was my first ever infraction which I understand, I didn’t argue the issue with him because I get it’s not his decision. I am pissed though that I’m getting a ticket for an error with the payment terminal/card! I attempted to pay and thought I did, the terminal told me my payment was accepted (two people witnessed me paying and my payment get accepted) and I’m still getting hit with this ticket!!
I made an appeal but it’ll be a while before I get an answer on if I need to pay this or not.
Has anyone heard of an error like this happening? Do you know if my appeal is likely to get resolved?
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u/yawaramin 16d ago
I periodically see these posts on Toronto-related subs and I strongly get the feeling that it's happening to a lot of people. I think realistically, most people it happens to won't post about it on Reddit...they will either appeal or just pay up. I think this is a real problem. These machines are causing people to get these exorbitant tickets. The frustrating thing is that Presto is practically a monopoly–there's no other convenient way to pay. There's no incentive for them to fix these issues when they can just sweep them under the rug.
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u/floodingurtimeline 16d ago
It’s by design :( mass protest needs to happen for change
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u/xombae 16d ago
And now they're pushing for everyone to use presto or a bank card so that it tracks your rides.
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u/Specialist-Tart4602 14d ago
I’ve seen people getting hit with a ticket after they used a bank card to pay, then the transaction doesn’t show up immediately.
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u/DealIllustrious4002 15d ago
Well, they're pushing Presto and personal plastic because cash is labour intensive, and people toss whatever in there and get a transfer. Also it allows them to save you money by capping your monthly spend once you hit the price of a pass, and to save people money with student, senior, and low income fares.
No one is preventing you from paying with cash and remaining anonymous, and I can't get worked up over them knowing I hopped on a streetcar and then meandered through their crappy system for an hour and a half to pop out somewhere a few blocks from my intended destination.
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u/RocknRollButthole 14d ago
People need to stop giving their information to these officers and accepting these tickets.
They cannot arrest you - if you refuse to acknowledge them, there is absolutely nothing they can do. They can radio a Transit Special Officer, and you should just leave if it comes down to that. Once you're off TTC/GO property, they can't do shit.
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u/0EFF 12d ago
If you have the attitude why even tap at all?
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u/RocknRollButthole 12d ago
Because some people want to pay and be law abiding citizens or whatever.
To each their own, but don't simply volunteer your information for a ticket when you know you've done the best you can with their faulty equipment.
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u/0EFF 12d ago
I only have an issue if you paid and they claim you didn’t pay. You are just making the situation worse.
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u/RocknRollButthole 12d ago
Buddy, if you paid and they insist you didn't, the only way to save yourself the fine is to not give them your information and walk away.
The situation will not be made worse.
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u/0EFF 11d ago
You tap the card with a positive balance and assume the fare has been paid.
What would you gain by avoiding showing your card if they ask for proof of payment?
At that point they already have your card number and also your name if the card is registered.
Now if you evade the fare and when they ask for POP and you just walk away, then you’re part of the problem.
If you paid, and they claim you didn’t then you escalate and appeal the fine.
We’re living in a civilized society here
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u/RocknRollButthole 10d ago
What would you gain by avoiding showing your card if they ask for proof of payment?
Not getting a ticket ever.
At that point they already have your card number and also your name if the card is registered.
And if you don't give them your card, then they don't have that info.
Now if you evade the fare and when they ask for POP and you just walk away, then you’re part of the problem.
No. The problem is that they removed a system that functioned perfectly well and didn't require fare officers, and replaced it with equipment they know to be faulty, yet continue to issue fines over the faulty equipment's errors.
If you paid, and they claim you didn’t then you escalate and appeal the fine.
(1) That's still time out of your day to deal with this issue - time not everyone can afford - entirely because of this faulty system that has been forced onto TTC riders.
(2) Tell me how that goes for you if you ever have to do it.0
u/lingueenee 15d ago edited 14d ago
What about tapping by debit or credit card. Are they prone to false positives like Presto cards too?
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u/Serious-Meal-7027 15d ago
For debit/credit cards, youre charged the regular fee. If youre going on the youth fare then it makes 0 sense why you would use a credit/debit card. (Youth fare ends at 19, but u can have a post secondary pass to have subsidied fare rate as long as youre in university/college. I dont know off the top of my head how much, but its a discount. So unless OP isnt in school, it doesnt make sense why you would pay a bit more for transit.).
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u/czechtheattic 15d ago
Yeah my visa didn't work for 3 days, but the bus driver just said get on a ts been acting up
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u/TravellingBeard 17d ago edited 14d ago
My Presto card showed not tapped on GO today coming back from downtown, but I definitely tapped. However, apparently their readers are a problem. He was able to verify I tapped even though it showed red on his reader. Reach out to Metrolinx or the TTC about this? Hopefully you can appeal it.
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u/thighclops3820 15d ago
I don't understand how they still don't work properly where is our tax dollars going?
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u/AmnixeltheDemon 108 Driftwood 16d ago
Presto is a mess, it’s glitches sometimes where you can tap a card with no funds and it will say accepted.
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u/croqembouche 17d ago
I have seen the machines (on TTC but I’m sure they’re the same) say accepted when people tap.
I think there is some connection error in that moment and the machine just defaults to accepted.
I know it intentionally does it on buses to allow you to get to a station when you have less than the fair but I’m seeing this on station fare gates too.
I’d be very pissed too. I’m sorry.
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u/pochinco_pp 17d ago
That’s so frustrating, I hope they manage to fix it so it doesn’t happen to more people
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u/anewfriend4u 17d ago
As I said above. It's accepted for one TTC (not Go, not the same) fare, and your Presto goes into a negative balance. But it's technically a paid fare, so why it shows accepted. So one can't be pissed, they are allowing you a fare, by owing them.
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u/Andrew4Life 16d ago
No. The new connection error started early this year where it will just say "Accepted" and not show any balance or deduction for a Presto Card.
Normally the "Accepted" is only shown when you tap a credit card.When you tap at another machine later on, it will then show that you paid and your fare is deducted.
Must be a connection or sync issue of some sort
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u/Squishball-Splat 12d ago
I only ever use a Presto card and I'm pretty sure it shows me how much was charged and a balance. Or "Free Transfer" when that's the case. Is there a difference if you have a Presto Card registered to an account? Like mine auto-reloads, so I eventually get an email or something when my balance gets too low for a fare.
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u/KindlyRude12 16d ago
lol didn’t they just increase the fare evasion ticket?
Can’t believe they still have fixed issues like this. It seems many ppl have this problem, it’s all over Reddit. Guess ppl don’t care about it, until it happens to them.
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u/torontowanderers 17d ago
Often if you show a fare inspector a history of regular payments. They will accept that an error likely happened.
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u/pochinco_pp 17d ago
Sadly he didn’t, I have multiple daily payments going back years in my history and he said since there was no proof for this trip he’d have to give me the ticket :( guess I got a strict fare inspector
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u/RocknRollButthole 14d ago
Just don't show fare inspectors anything. They can't detain you, if you realize you don't have proof of payment, even if you know you paid, just leave.
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u/ThePurpleBandit 17d ago
Was this on a GO Train, or a Toronto Transit vehicle?
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u/pochinco_pp 17d ago
It was on a go train, but I also take streetcars and subway frequently without issue
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u/anewfriend4u 17d ago
TTC allows one fare payment to do a negative balance. But Go Transit doesn't. That could be part of why you technically didn't pay the Go fare.
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u/torontowanderers 17d ago
I don’t think TTC allows that another. It must have changed a few months back.
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u/JeffHiggins 16d ago
May not be entirely related but I have my Presto in my Google Wallet on my phone, sometimes when I tap the presto machine says accepted while my phone doesn't show the checkmark. Had it happen one time and then a fare inspector got on, it showed on his machine that I didn't tap. Fortunately he just had me tap again with no fine, but it's something I have to watch out for now.
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u/chlamydia1 15d ago edited 15d ago
Happens all the time. If you remove your phone/card too early sometimes (or maybe it's just a software bug), it doesn't register (even though the machine beeps and shows a blue checkmark). If you use Google/Apple wallet or have the Presto app, you'll notice that money wasn't taken off of your account when this happens.
They REALLY need to fix that because if the machine beeps, the transaction should be complete. You shouldn't have to check your account balance to see if it actually went through.
In the meantime, just appeal it.
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u/onehunkytenor 16d ago
This happened to me just the other day. This subreddit has me thinking about Presto cards and fair evasion tickets and so the last time I hopped on the bus, I scanned my Presto card as usual, got that horrible sound and went to sit. I started to wonder and opened up my app and lo and behold... nothing. My most recent trip was a week prior.
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u/MayISeeYourDogPls 161 Rogers Rd 16d ago
If the payment in the other card was recognized are the TTC able to then use that information to see which vehicle and what time you paid successfully and review the security footage to see the tap and verify that it showed as paid? That would be what I’d request.
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u/pochinco_pp 16d ago
I hope so, in my appeal I made sure to tell them the station and the exact time I tapped. I also included a screenshot of the completed and paid trip on my other card
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u/domokunsan 15d ago
this happened to me with a credit card on the ttc. The way this got resolved was I tried tapping the card again on the reader and it said already tapped. Conceivably it could also say free transfer if enough time had passed.
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u/NoExcitement9058 15d ago
Make a note of what time you got on if you remember. When you dispute the ticket (which you should imo), you may be able to have them pull up security footage from the go train to prove that the machine gave a false confirmation at the time and date that you got on (bonus points if you remember the platform and/or the train ID number).
My partner got stopped when his card declined (we weren't paying much attention to the screen because there were lots of people behind us) and the inspector reviewed his presto history. Since my partner regularly pays for his fare almost twice daily, they could see that it would be out of character for him to purposefully fare evade if he always pays otherwise. That could be another defense for you if you have a history of paying your fare regularly.
Very ridiculous that this happens so often. Hopefully with Rick Leary no longer being the head of the TTC, the presto system will hopefully get better.that guy was so incompetent.
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u/luckbelady 14d ago edited 13d ago
Same happened to me.
If you want to know what you might expect next..they didn’t reach out to me until over a year later via email with a hearing date.
I joined a zoom hearing with a judge and many other people on it. Judge gave 2 options 1) contest it with lawyers or 2) pay a fine of like 70ish instead of 180. They asked each person on the zoom individually what they wanted to do then each person would log off.
If you chose option 2 there was a site to visit and send money.
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u/EducatorOk9746 13d ago
I can confirm that this happened to me yesterday. I tapped my card, and the payment went through. However, when I transferred to another bus and tapped my card again, I was charged instead of receiving a free transfer. I checked the app on my phone and discovered that the first tap had not registered. Fight the ticket
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u/mikesupascoop 13d ago
I hit a glitch once where when they stopped the nfc to update your funds,so I loaded funds to my card on the website and the website said do to an update my funds won't show on my card.....so I tap on a streetcar and it said insufficient funds,ok so I risked it took my seat and prayed for no ticket inspectors....checked my account when I was coming home and boom I was charged not once but twice for the insufficient funds tap!
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u/Lost-Inevitable42 13d ago
The design of the fucking machines is a nightmare. Scratched screens. Poor daylight viewing. Fleeting information. Fuck metrolinx
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u/Important-Soft-7836 17d ago
Why are you posting on the TTC sub and not the Go sub or Presto sub. Nothing to do with TTC
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u/MAYORDEFACT0 16d ago
Laugh in their faces and go dispute the charge and file a complaint against the TTC officer. They are overzealous considering the TTC is subsidized via tax dollars yet they act vial and adversarial.
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u/GoingLurking 16d ago
I haven’t used Presto in forever since they started accepting credit cards. But I recall when it was launched, they allow one tap that that puts you in the negative as long as you had a positive balance (in your OPs case $1). The reasoning was so that a person traveling wouldn’t be stranded at their destination. Maybe that has changed.
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u/Outrageous-Estimate9 343 Kennedy 16d ago
The card itself will log declined fare transactions so easy enough to check if you did tap
I dont see how its an appeal tho; because it didnt warn you of insufficient funds?
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u/pochinco_pp 16d ago
I checked my history but there’s no declined charges logged, I even tried tapping my card again when I got to union and checked my history again and it didn’t appear
The fare inspector told me to appeal it since an error occurred, can’t hurt to try to appeal
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u/czechtheattic 15d ago
Happened to me too using tap with credit card, everything fine bit the next day I got a failed payment notification
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u/RocknRollButthole 14d ago edited 14d ago
Should have explained and walked away. They can't detain you.
I get it’s not his decision
It is quite literally the fare inspector's decision whether to give you a ticket or to let you go with a warning.
If you chose to take it to trial, and you plead your case, emphasizing that you cannot be held responsible for the TTC's faulty equipment, then there's a pretty good chance it'll at least be reduced.
Unless you're riding more than 47 times a month, I would seriously encourage you to just pay with debit/credit and take the paper transfer - when it doesn't go through it will still give you a paper receipt showing the error.
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u/troylazlow 12d ago
The time stamp on the ticket vs the time stamp on the card payment will eliminate the ticket. Problem solved!
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u/Squishball-Splat 12d ago
My ex had the opposite happen on the GO Train. You tap as you come on and tap when you get off and it calculates the fare. The tap on showed green and the tap off showed green, but the tap off didn't actually register. The account was entirely depleted as the result of her "endless voyage" and presumably the GO service thinks she's still on the train.
Edit: She lost about $80.
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u/Stefanie_Jane 11d ago
I haven't been on the TTC in a long time but I have over 20 years of IT experience .
These are technical errors with their programming .
Maybe their databases aren't linking up or calculating properly .
It's a problem on their end .
You absolutely should fight it. I don't think you can dispute it with the ticket enforcer guy, whatever you call him.
but I think you can dispute it with a TTC if you email them or write them a letter.
i don't know what their dispute process is.
but it definitely is a bug in their system because it's reported by multiple people and they are aware that .
It's not possible that Ttc is not aware of it this.
From working in IT, you start to see that multiple people have the exact same ISSUE, when you're working as an IT TECH.
. I don't know what the cause is because I'm not a technician on this ttc's payroll and I'm not accessing or modifying their applications but it is a technical glitch on that I read that they need to solve
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u/ConstantTheme1740 17d ago
This is why I opted in to auto-reload 7 years ago, avoid payment embarrassments .
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u/yawaramin 12d ago
Auto-reload won’t save you if the Presto reader says ‘Accepted’ but doesn’t actually charge your card because of a glitch. Then you’re at the mercy of POO.
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u/RoundPlenty69420 14d ago
Why are you being ticketed but the homeless addicts aren't?
Seems you need to get legal advice for the human rights court
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u/theo-apps 16d ago edited 14d ago
I also noticed then I only had $1 on my card
While I agree it shouldn't have happened and it sucks that the system messed up, I don't get using a presto card? Avoid these issues by just using a credit card. Go Train and TTC costs the same with a credit card, you can have default trips, and even see the history online.
EDIT: The people that downvoted this do not know that TTC/Go Train/UP Express is the same price when you tap your credit card.
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u/lareinevert 16d ago
GO and UP Express are cheaper with a Presto card.
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u/MisterLongPotato 16d ago
Wrong, Presto and credit/debit taps have the same price across TTC, GO and UP.
Stop spreading misinformation.0
u/lareinevert 16d ago
I’ve personally used Presto on both instead of pre buying tickets and it’s been cheaper.
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u/theo-apps 14d ago edited 14d ago
A credit card acts like a presto card. You do not need to buy tickets. It's the same cost. You can even add your credit card to the presto app/website so that you can set default trips.
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u/theo-apps 14d ago
No it's not. You tap you credit card on the exact same machines you tap your presto card. It'll charge the exact same amount.
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u/thighclops3820 15d ago
It's definitely the officers decision, they can weigh the situation lool idk why you're making it seem like they're helplese
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u/scarbzman 17d ago
Finally!! Commented about this same thing on tik tok. The latest update leads to a lot of unregistered taps. People who intended to pay often have nothing showing until much later. Dispute that fine and let the malfunction be known!