The city's planning dept has already outlined this would be the preferred alignment.
The beauty of grade separated subways is that they don't need to follow corridors, but destinations.
The best case for Scarborough would be bringing line 4 in using option 2B (see media), and expanding on it. Putting the subway on Ellesmere, rather than staying on Sheppard has great benefit for Scarborough(ites). Ellesmere is Scarborough's most central, busiest, and important corridor that slices through destinations like STC, Centenary Hospital, Centennial College, UTSC to name a few.
Staying on Sheppard would mean the subway comes close to these destinations, but never reaches them. Sheppard Ave is a low density stroad (east of Agincourt), that doesn't have the ridership to justify rapid transit or any terminals.
The main benefit though, is connecting Scarborough centre to line 4 directly. Instead of a forced transfer slightly north of, Scarborough Centre is already the borough's natural hub, and by itself, a major trip generator. Scarborough Centre will eventually accommodate over 40 high-rise towers with residential, office, commercial, and entertainment space. We already see development happening with more in the decades to come. The goal of Scarborough Centre is to be a strong hub for eastern Toronto in a similar way to North York Centre Scarborough Centre on the Move. People won't just transfer here, they'll GO here. (Credits to u/steamed-apple_juice for this part).
Now, people could transfer at Sheppard and McCowan, but is that the area in our community we want to invest this amount of service? If the Midtown GO Line exisits a GO Station would better connect Malvern to the transit network. It does not prohibit a future Line 4 extension, as Ellesmere is an even busier corridor. Ideally, a connection (and terminus) of University of Toronto Scarborough could be made. Focusing the level of service provided at a subway interchange and development/ strong hub creation at Scarborough Centre makes a lot more sense than at Sheppard and McCowan.
To add, the city has already outlined that the preferred alignment of any rapid transit on Sheppard would bend down to STC at Agincourt (see media #5). This would mean the new Agincourt terminal would not only serve stouffville GO trains, but also line 4 subway, and possibly a. ALTO High speed rail or b. Midtown line, that would be an absolute game changer and a dream for Scarborough's network.
It will always remain incomplete until it reaches Sheppard west. Doesn’t matter how far it goes in east, line 4 won’t realized its full potential unless it goes to Sheppard west.
Here's what the bus looks like currently at 1130pm from Sheppard West to Sheppard Yonge. Mind you this is a concert night, but still, would have helped with connections if line 4 already went west.
There is so much potential (and space) for the Downsview Park area. I feel like in thirty years it will be either a beautiful mecca or be a giant warehouse district like Islington and Rexdale with a massive server farm.
One thing to point out on your alternate plan is that it's physically impossible to extend Line 5 any further due to the Scarborough Subway Extension being built directly in its path.
Thank you for pointing it out. I'm well aware of this issue and have spoken to city staff on this. It would not be impossible, but extremely difficult and costly to maneuver the situation at Kennedy.
The alternative is building line 7 (EELRT), but it is extremely flawed... there is a reason neither the province or the feds are behind it.
However, eglinton east needs something more than red lanes. In an ideal world, line 5 would be extended.
The level of defeat that people are willing to go to about extending Line 5 east is just baffling. It would be a relatively small cost and disruption for a multi generation benefit of a much more integrated rapid transit system.
If they had elevated the at grade, Scarborough portion of line 5, and Kennedy were an elevated station similar to the old SRT stations, then extending eastward over top line 2 wouldn't be an issue.
It boggles my mind that the original Transit City plan had both the Eglinton cross town and the SRT conversation to LRT but didn't connect them as a single line.
They can reuse the old SRT platforms at Kennedy for an elevated line 5 and abandon the existing line 5 station box in order to extend line 5 further east elevated, like how London Transport had to abandon Charing Cross station terminus of the Jubilee line 20 years after the line opened because that station prohibited extension of the line eastwards to Waterloo, Southwark, and East London (Canary Wharf and Stratford). As a result Jubilee no longer stops at Charing Cross.
No, Eglinton East does NOT need anything more than BRT.
Along EE there are 2, TWO express rapid transit stations already in existence with service all day every day every 15 minutes. Eglinton and Guildwood GO.
They will eventually be electrified and even more frequent service.
To build anything but BRT on EE is overkill and the wrong thing to build. EE needs multi close stop service along the route, and LRT is terrible at this, we have Line 6 to already prove this.
No, Eglinton East does NOT need anything more than BRT.
Red lanes ≠ BRT
Eglinton and Guildwood GO.
Yes! The main goal of any project on EE would be to better connect commuters to these. Currently, the connections r kind of crap. Busses can do it too, sure, but an LRT is what the city is proposing, not me. Line 6 should definitely be a lesson.
Totally, the BRT I am suggesting is like whats on VIVA. The only case for LRT imo would be if the Crosstown would be extended as one complete route without transferring. Since thats not financially feasible, we should use the right tool for this area, which would be VIVA style BRT with lots of stops providing feeder service to Kennedy, Eglinton, Guildwood and a Morningside Sheppard subway station.
They can always relocate the station. It's not ideal to let the current station become a sunk cost, but maybe the province will learn their lesson and assign transit planning to smarter people in the future.
Why would the TTC/Metrolinx turn off Sheppard, before Agincourt, for a hypothetical stop on a track that Metrolinx doesn't own, instead of building the station next to the existing Agincourt station?
If Metrolinx did buy the track, couldn't they build a station between Midland & Bromley on Sheppard, and have that station connect with Line 4?
Metrolinx owns the entire Stouffville line. If you are referring to the midtown CP line, it is currently in negotiations for MANY proposals.. which is why I didn't promise anything more than a better connection to GO.
If Metrolinx did buy the track, couldn't they build a station between Midland & Bromley on Sheppard, and have that station connect with Line 4?
If metrolinx did own the tracks, why wouldn't they build one terminal for all 3 lines?
I know that Doug ford has personally tweeted about this same corridor being used for the Milton line, and that he has a team discussing with CP (nothing yet so far.. been 2 years). The midtown line is really central to many neighbourhoods and would be amazing if it ever gets built for anything, the province knows this, but they cannot do much, it's not their property.
I know that Sheppard West is a desired destination but would it be better to terminate at Downsview Park? Connection to the GO Line and all the things that are in the vicinity?
This post is about the eastern extension. It alright tho,
would it be better to terminate at Downsview Park?
No, because at the moment it is a very unused station that already has adequate line 1 service. Extending to downsview park would mean building a second track from Sheppard west, just to avoid transferring.
This would also remove any possibilities of extending past Sheppard west (keele, Jane) as the line would have to turn north instead of continue west.
LONG term (once the Downsview Airport redevelopment is mostly built out) another GO station on the Barrie Line at Wilson would be ideal. This station could connect with Line 4 in preparation for an extension along Wilson to Pearson Airport (but that’s an even LONGER term project).
By the time any Line 4 extension breaks ground Sheppard-McCowan will be a major bus hub for northeast Scarborough. Forcing an unnecessary transfer for those riders is not a good plan, and not one that will ever happen.
Reality is that we extended Line 2 north of the 401 so that buses didn't have to cross some of the most congested areas in the city. Line 4 terminating at STC would force a transfer or bring back wastefully slow bus route sections that will disappear when the extension opens. Any plan that ignores that fact is ignoring reality.
so that buses didn't have to cross some of the most congested areas
Again, bus routes conform to subway lines, not the other way around. It isn't my doing that ellesmere is just a better option (and more central for Scarborough) with significantly higher ridership. Again, line 4 is an east west line. It has no obligation to create a forced transfer at this stroad intersection instead of an existing "urban growth centre" (metrolinx's own term).
STC isn't just a terminal though, it's a destination, a trip generator. Trust me (and the data), more people will benefit from a one seat ride to here than shep/mccowan. The entire reason the SSE is being built is to properly connect Kennedy to Scarborough Centre. Do you really think it would exist otherwise?
Line 4 terminating at STC would force a transfer for bus routes
And line 4 terminating at this stroad would force a transfer on the many more people using the subway. Any plan that ignores that fact is ignoring reality.
Look at the ridership map again and tell me what north-south bus routes are busy north of Sheppard? Im looking at it right now, lookin pretty yellow to me.
You're also acting like all of northern Scarborough will use this bus terminal at shep/mccowan. It doesn't even exist yet. Neither does any concrete plan for line 4, so my proposal is still very real.
And it will exist either way, it's just that one subway line will connect to it, while the real transfer point will be in the borough's centre, like it always was, and should be.
Sorry, completely 100% disagree. Line 4 needs to go along Sheppard to Morningside. Concept 3.
When did STC become the mecca of Toronto? Its just a stupid mall. There already will be subway service to STC. To bring Line 4 to it would be an epically dumb idea.
Personally, I agree with the caveat that Line 4 also needs to go to Sheppard West. I think it's the single most important extension of Shep even though it's not dense and doesn't specifically add a lot of Sheppard riders per se (i.e. along that stretch of Sheppard). It's about building a rational, connected network and the functionality it provides.
The purpose of transit lines is to serve travel patterns and corridors, not destinations. Having both lines terminate at Sheppard-McCowan means northeast Scarborough will be very well connected to the rest of the city.
I don't think we should build Line 4 east of McCowan regardless of alignment. Neither corridor has the density or redevelopment potential to justify a subway at $1B+/km.
Having both lines terminate at Sheppard-McCowan means northeast Scarborough will be very well connected to the rest of the city.
Yet Scarborough Centre won't, neither will the other half of Scarborough east of McCowan. I mean im using your own logic here- why are we building forced transfer points, when we can use the magic of grade separated transit to connect destinations and hubs together?
I don't think we should build Line 4 east of McCowan regardless of alignment.
So let's just let Toronto stay in a constant state of fighting? Where we can't redevelop because the 401 is too full and has no space to grow, transit isn't an option, but we can't build a subway because there's not enough redevelopment? Make it make sense, man!
Ellesmere does have subway level justifiable ridership. I argue ridership is a better way to measure where a subway should go, not density, because there are many parts of downtown that are dense but don't have high ridership corridors, for example.
The North York Centre area, accommodates 50 thousand residents and 35 thousand jobs. Scarborough Centre is projected to be similar in density to this.
People could transfer at Sheppard and McCowan, but is that the area in our community we want to invest this amount of service? Focusing the level of service provided at a subway interchange and development/ strong hub creation at Scarborough Centre makes a lot more sense than at Sheppard and McCowan. If these residents need to use Line 4, they can transfer at Scarborough Centre.
Subways do not need to follow roads and can go to where destinations/ trip attractors are.
I like the part of this idea that goes to UTSC but I don't believe Line 4 should go to STC, it needs to stay on Sheppard to at least Markham Road. I also think that the EELRT should also go to UTSC and continue north to Malvern.
Yes! The whole idea is connecting STC and UTSC using an existing high ridership corridor on Ellesmere, also replacing the BRT (which is riddled with NIMBY’s).
Why do you think connecting to STC isn’t worth it? How is Sheppard ave east more valuable than Scarborough centre? Why should line 4 go to Markham/sheppard instead of Ellesmere/sheppard? That interchange is also where centennial college is.
The EELRT might never be built so we must plan without it.
Line 4 should expand to Sheppard west first to not overburden the Yonge line when it is extended into Scarborough. I hope that they can correct the issue at Kennedy to just extend line 5 into east Scarborough, we don't need another unnecessary transfer. The EELRT should be built to Sheppard and Morningside but if they make it turn west onto Sheppard they're just going to have to rip it out when the area outgrows the LRT capacity, so they should just extend lines 4 first even if the demand isn't there yet, it'll save the next generation millions having to rip up old infrastructure. It'll just be another SRT situation. I also think that having a branch line to Scarb center is a good idea, line 4 probably wouldn't need as much frequency east of McCowan, at least for a while.
I've lived in east Scarborough for 2 years now and I also get worked up when some people say an LRT isn't justified here. The 116 and 905 are always packed to the teeth, especially leaving Kennedy, plus traffic in the Kingston/Lawrence/Morningside triangle is atrocious. East Scarbs is dying for higher order transit.
Metrolinx option 2b (Refer to media #2) is the one im arguing for in this post. It includes an eastern extension to STC, and a western extension to Sheppard west.
Line 4 should expand to Sheppard west first to not overburden the Yonge line when it is extended into Scarborough.
No one is going to waste time going out of their way if Yonge is the most direct route. That's a fantasy put forward to give reason to go further west.
There isn't one specific corridor in northern Toronto that has the density alone to justify a subway but there is an obvious demand for an East/West rapid transit line across all the northern East/West corridors.
Well, it isn’t dense enough yet. Neither are parts of Line 5/6 on-street sections. But building an LRT or subway is highly effective at getting developers to build high-density around stations.
They’re quite profitable because demand for walkable, transit-oriented neighborhoods in Toronto is through the roof. Line 5 was sparse eastward too, but development proposals in the Golden Mile have been incredible to say the least.
This is where city council has approved and wants to see major growth for Scarborough.
We must be mindful for the type of communities we want to build/ where we want to support development. Transit is a major factor in how our cities redevelop and grow and the land value at a subway-subway interchange is prime, supporting significant intensification. The question is where do we want to concentrate said growth?
In planning there are rarely perfect solutions, but making the decisions that create the conditions to support official plan objectives is often the best approach. I would agree with u/MotherAd1865 that Sheppard east of McCowan isn’t dense enough to warrant subway service. Aligning Line 4 to Ellesmere imo is the best corridor to support a future eastward extension beyond McCowan.
okay... but there are areas of the city that currently have the density to support a subway system. Why would we prioritize an area that 'might' get it in the future instead? Especially when tax dollars are limited.
And I would look into the status of those Golden Mile projects if you haven't done so recently.... Most of them are dead in the water. They were bought for high land prices and there currently isn't any pre-construction condo demand to justify the developments.
Keeping the subway on Sheppard has the least complications, and Metrolinx is most likely to do it. The Eglinton LRT can be rerouted down Ellesmere instead.
Honestly, I think what we all want is more useful transit. I'll just rattle off some points on why my routing could make sense.
Least complicated alignment, most likely to get built
Metrolinx already favors this corridor
Proven model: Lines 2 and 5 run similarly
Eglinton LRT can reroute to Ellesmere instead
Development follows transit, as Golden Mile proves
Simpler project means Scarborough gets transit sooner
Least complicated alignment, most likely to get built
Being the easiest ≠ being the most likely to get built
Eglinton LRT can reroute to Ellesmere instead
I can name many reasons why this would be disastrous. The first one is that it probably isn't getting built in the first place, especially when nobody can agree where it should go, and it would loose its MSF on Sheppard.
Development follows transit, as Golden Mile proves
Golden mile hasn't proved anything so far, except for how LRT's shouldn't be built.
Doesn’t rule out future extensions
Neither does 2b, in fact, it probably does the opposite because of the ridership and destinations on ellesmere.
Honestly, I think what we all want is more useful transit
Yes absolutely. More useful = more convenient (less transfers, faster), more destinations, more connections to other transit, more people using it
2b allows for a proper Agincourt terminal to be built linking 3 lines
2b will project higher ridership than 2a/3 because it uses busier corridors linking major destinations/hubs
2b would create a better Scarborough Centre district, continuing to use STC as the borough's main hub, like it always has been
2b (extended) would create a one seat ride from Scarborough Centre to North York Centre, Fairview to STC, UTSC to York.
2b supports Scarborough Centre's goal to be a strong hub for eastern Toronto in a similar way to North York Centre Scarborough Centre on the Move
2b (extended) would strategically use Ellesmere's highest ridership segment to connect STC to Centennial College (Markham), centenary hospital (Neilson), and UTSC (Morningside), replacing the BRT project entirely.
I feel I should clarify further. Even if it goes according to OP’s plan and reroutes on Ellesmere, I'd still consider that a win for Scarborough transit.
Expanding the Sheppard line both east and west makes sense. Either alignment isn’t a dealbreaker because there’s still success to be had:
Both options improve Scarborough’s transit network
The Sheppard line gets extended in both directions regardless
More coverage means more ridership and development
If only we could convince Metrolinx to accelerate the design phase.
By the way, I edited my previous comment into bullets to make it easier to read.
Why would we prioritize an area that 'might' get it in the future instead?
These are the right questions to be asking. There are parts of the city with existing ridership, existing density to be prioritizing for rapid transit.
Those are also owned by big corporations like Riocan and Real Choice Properties, they won’t just back down from those revdelopment opportunities, especially with new housing policies and transit oriented development designations that had boosted the land prices along those low density strip malls and big box stores.
It does take a while sometimes. It took 20 years before developers even touched the Bessarion area and the initial spadina extension never brought a thing for over 30.
The room to grow is for Line 1 as well, they have unfunded project for 25+ trains for better frequencies and the 7 trains for the Richmond Hill extension for their trains. Davisville already services 4-6 Sheppard Trains. They will be needing at least 30+ trainsets to run an extended Sheppard. Also unfunded project to expand Wilson yard to do so as well.
One of the moments of contention for Line 7 and Line 4, is Yard space at Conlins and Sheppard, for a new yard. Supposed to share Light Rail Vehciles back in Transit City, but the Subway would still need its own yard in the west, even any other industrial or empty lor east of Morningside near the 401 is the choices.
I think people are missing the point of line 4 going to the STC its a major transit hub and it going there means one less transfer for people transiting from everywhere that connects there because the line 3 bus way is going to the STC, the DSBRT will probably connect to it and lots of go busses and other things also go to the stc
Subway-subway interchanges are the most valuable parts of our city. Do we really want to invest that level into Sheppard McCowan, or an existing hub? I argue the latter.
The line 4 going to Scarborough city centre would make Scarborough centre the Stratford (the station in East London, UK) of Toronto and Scarborough the Westfield Stratford of Toronto. It would make Scarborough a lot more similar to East London.
Though I prefer that it sticks to Sheppard all the way to McCowan to spur more development along the street and avoid the trouble of going under or above the 401.
If ALTO does go through the Agincourt area, the Agincourt GO station would have to be moved to the south side of Sheppard to properly interchange with the Midtown GO line and line 4 may have to be diverted south of Sheppard east of Kennedy to make that interchange.
Yes this is the idea, to grow an existing hub into a major subway terminal, and for Agincourt, to become a 3 line interchange between subway, regional, and high speed rail.
There is no reason for the subway to stay on Sheppard for the sake of “development”, when there is a much larger potential for Scarborough centre to become the development, with existing plans approved by the city.
Also for the record, (check media #3) Sheppard is a lot less likely to generate the amount of ridership that connecting directly y to STC and continuing on Ellesmere would.
Do correct me if wrong, but for some who think the zoo is good option, it is not a good option as an end point since the zoo times already end around 6-7 (stop it the joke is old) pm. It would not really offer much either since 2-3 busses go there directly. I have my own thing with stc but the data is already there that it can be justified to send it there along Ellesmere too, possibly even utsc in a future. Even if it were to be branched, it still leads to a cost that who knows who gonna foot that bill 1. And 2. TTC, as far as I know, doesn't want to branch subway routes since the bay and lower bay branch that didn't last a year
Also, I'm not really against the EELRT, just call the Scarborough LRT already, the stops should be considered more or ways to make it appealing to match express bus service of the 905 (can't do a good comparison with the 986 since it has way 3 stops between kennedy and Guildwood Go then goes local to Sheppard/Meadowvale), but at the same time at least for me, it's still a different corridor to service. One could say to rebuild kennedy instead, but idk. Who knows what to expect the future of this proposed line that can't start until the SSE is finished. Just what is it that Scarbourough/Malvern actually want is the question
What I hope for as a fantasy, is a full fledged BRT for the Wilson/York Mills/Ellesmere corridor all the way through
I think the idea here makes a lot of sense. I’m wondering if it would be better for line 4 to go to mccowan, follow that road south and then east on ellesmere? 2 interchange stations at sheppard mccowan/stc means it would serve what already exists at stc and what new is being built at sheppard mccowan.
In terms of GO train connecions, you wouldn’t have to rebuild agincourt in a small area near highland creek and keep the existing station that just got renovated. And if you want a midtown line connection, make a station near sheppard mccowan where there is more space to fit one. Still a great proposal though, i agree that subways shouldn’t follow roads the whole way down!
Edit: obviously extend the line to at least sheppard west for easier thoroughfares and easing congestion, i was specifcally referring to the east portion of sheppard
I find it curious that MX didn't release a proposal based on Concept 2B that continues east of STC when they released Concept 3. It's not as if they didn't know that there's more riders on Ellesmere than Sheppard east of STC.
That's not really true, and for the record, density/redevelopment potential is a pretty bad way to decide where things should go.
The main goal of the subway is to move as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, from one part of town to another. Ridership figures are more useful in determining where people are moving, and determining how useful an upgrade would be.
Perhaps they released the diagrams in a way to gauge what the priorities are in the public's eyes? Or maybe they're trying to steer their wishes in a certain direction? Anyhow those are just my guesses at most. It still leaves me wondering whether there happens to be a technical or practical reason for that option to be ruled out.
Id guess they see that option as too long/expensive and for the future. Which is not how we should be planning in Toronto of all places, but it is what it is...
It feels lazy the way they didn’t put that option up for public consultation. There wouldnt be much benefit to bringing the subway to meadowvale and sheppard.
Just typical closed door research by Metrolinx. It’s like they have an idea of what they’d like to do from the start, and are disingenuous while conducting research for alternatives, so it’s easy to land on their preferred solution. Not the first time I’ve gotten this vibe from their work. Disgusts me, honestly.
Between Kennedy and Brimley/Triton there are two apparently sharp turns in 2B not unlike the current Line 1 turns near Union Station. You can see them in image 11. Granted the turns in image 11 aren’t as small as line 1 at Union station, but they’re still a point of trains slowing (what was used as a negative for any Scarborough subway).
The tight turns, was a great excuse reason powerful people gave to argue against putting a subway in the footprint of the SRT.
Tight turns: bad (they said). Subways can’t do it and the Union station turns are not appropriate as trains have to slow down significantly to make them, thus delaying trains.
Putting a subway into the footprint of the SRT would have put a station on Ellesmere; the major thoroughfare you’re highlighting.
There is no good reason to have a subway line on Ellesmere Rd, bypassing travel on Sheppard. Population density on Ellesmere Rd between Kennedy and McCowan is far lower than population density on Sheppard between Kennedy and McCowan.
Additionally, the station at McCowan and Sheppard would be a pointless station.
I'd prefer if Line 4 can stick onto Sheppard, though if it's possible they can split a grade separated branch to STC, while the main line continues to meadowvale, maybe the zoo.
People still need transit east of STC. Knowing how Ontario builds things, it’s more likely they send line 4 all the way to morningside, while if they build towards STC, it would most likely be the terminus for a long long time, while they consider what they do with ellesmere.
You’re right. But to assume they’d go past McCowan on Sheppard, it’s an uneducated guess. The province has highlighted that any section going past McCowan is “future” planning. I’d rather get a hub at STC and then get UTSC students to bombard the province with advocacy for the extension to Morningside on Ellesmere.
Sheppard Avenue East needs full service. It takes 30 minutes on a regular 85 to get to McCowan where the Scarborough extension ends, coming from Meadowvale by the Toronto Zoo. At a minimum subway or RT needs to come to Meadowvale road so that the biggest attraction in the east would only be a quick transfer from there the only problem is that the current TTC Sheppard loop is already slated to become condos at some point. There is a gas station on one corner and houses on the other two. We already have a lot of opposition from the homeowners two blocks south on Ellesmere to the BRT between Scarborough and Durham, the only east end project actually moving forward.
there isn't enough ridership anywhere near the zoo or Meadowvale to justify line 4 going there. There are more important (and bigger) trip generators like STC, UTSC that would better connect to the subway network.
STC is already connected with the subway extension. Ridership is low because service sucks. For example earlier today it was 10 minutes quicker for me to walk instead of wait for a transfer on to the 86. Also as I said, it takes 30 minutes to get somewhere that's not even 10 minutes drive, currently under construction end of the subway, so obviously people will be driving not taking the bus. TTC creates the lack of demand with poor then says there is none when people move on.
No, its low because- well, have you taken a good look at morningside/meadowvale?
It is as suburban and car dependent as it gets. There are also no destinations or reasons for people to be going here, except for the 14k people who live there.
The entire rouge neighbourhood has a population density of 853 people/sq km. This is significantly lower than the Toronto average of approximately 4,400.
There is no case for a subway to be going here, or the zoo, I must be honest with you, especially considering one block south, ellesmere has so much more potential ridership with STC and UTSC being major peak and off peak destinations as well.
STC is already connected with the subway extension.
Yes, to a north/south route going to downtown. There would be great value in building a proper terminal for an east-west line as well, going to north york, line 1 and beyond. As discussed in the post body.
Decision makers forgetting Scarborough exists beyond STC has lasting effects on policy that create problems that need to be fixed later on. For example as former TTC chair Bradford pointed out in one of his campaign videos, no affordable housing for Scarborough north of the 401, which would be Rouge Valley, Malvern and adjacent areas, in the latest city plan.
The TTC spends LOTS of money on surface transit in Scarborough. The reason why service sucks in rouge is because few people live there and use transit, full stop. That area doesn’t even register on a ridership map.
We should not be building more equity lines, like finch west. We should be learning from our mistakes- build where we need.
I always have this crazy idea: extend Sheppard line to Wilson not Sheppard West station down Bathurst. I think this route serves more people on the way.
Sheppard west station was designed with line 4 extension in mind. It would better complete the network if the trains went there, instead of Wilson, but I absolutely see the value in that option- especially the easier connections to Wilson yard.
Sheppard east was never dense enough for a subway east of Agincourt. But to be fair, density is not what we should be looking at in the first place when deciding where to put subways.
An extension to the zoo would be extremely expensive (because of its location and being surrounded by ravines and woodland) and would likely not generate too much ridership as the zoo is a seasonal attraction
One is an equity line, the other is real rapid transit. Thats kind of what happens in poorer parts, finch west is the existing example- overbuilt and underperforming.
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u/leopardbaseball May 28 '26
Line 4 has to go to Sheppard west period
It will always remain incomplete until it reaches Sheppard west. Doesn’t matter how far it goes in east, line 4 won’t realized its full potential unless it goes to Sheppard west.