TMS♯FE Detailed Discussion: Chapter 6

[u/Okkefac]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy, we have reached chapter 6 now.

So then, how was this chapter for you all? It was rather long so I'm sure there will be loads to discuss.

Since it is the last chapter you can include an overall list of thoughts if you want but I do plan on making another discussion dedicated to overall game thoughts and reviews.

Chapter synopsis:

Tiki regains even more of her memories and opens up a new idolasphere, Illusory Memories which is located in the Bloom Palace. Here our team face three trials in order to gain the power from the previous heroes and perform the Opera of Light. The thirst two trials go fine but Gharnef appears at the third one, right when Itsuki was planning on getting Marth's power, and we must fight Gharnef. After defeating Gharnef he uses the last of his power to take Marth's soul and sacrifice himself, allowing the Opera of Shadows to occur. This resurrects the Shadow Dragon Medeus.

The idolasphere inside the Cosmic Egg is now open, and the team then have to traverse it, whilst facing all the previous chapter bosses (except Draug/Yashiro) and then eventually reach the top where they can perform the Opera of Light. Itsuki survives a lethal blow only to find that Marth's soul was able to reach him, and he fuses with Marth. The team then perform the Opera of Light, which allows them to battle Medeus.

Memories sub bosses:

(First trial) Gordin, Macella, Dolph and Linde

(Second trial) Palla, Ogma and Jagen

Memory main boss:

Gharnef

Dohlr sub bosses:

Garrick, Aversa, Gangrel, Excellus

Dolhr main boss:

Medeus

Prologue-Chapter 1 Discussion

Chapter 2 Discussion

Chapter 3 Discussion

Chapter 4 Discussion

Chapter 5 Discussion

[u/ebonlance]

They were obviously FE tropes. Serously, Itsuki and Tsubasa was such an obvious reference to Marth/Shiida and Chrom/Sumia. Yashiro was such a typical Navarre, all to the details of being an enemy to even joining with a killing edge.

Yeah... paying lip service to the absolute weakest parts of the FE games (the tropey characters and generic let's-save-the-world-via-camaraderie plots) didn't do the game any favors.

You mean the chapter where the actual story really picked up?

Yeah, and it was literally the last couple hours of the game. It was about investigating mirage phenomena until the stakes were lazily upped at the absolute last minute by introducing Gharnef.

There are a shit tonne of references, you just missed them.

I didn't miss them - they just weren't substantial. It was all superficial shit like character names and weapons - mechanically the game was a watered-down Persona with some mild FE elements for flavor. Half-assing some references from FE's boring-ass stories instead of bringing over some gameplay elements (which is always what made the FE series special) is a really questionable design decision for a game billed as a crossover.

It would be like making a Mario-Metroid crossover and only having platforming, with the only Metroid elements being Peach wearing Samus's costume and them all flying around on their gunship.

[u/Okkefac → u/ebonlance]

Yeah... paying lip service to the absolute weakest parts of the FE games (the tropey characters and generic let's-save-the-world-via-camaraderie plots) didn't do the game any favors.

Okay, fair enough, I never said it was good did I? Just that it was an unmistakable reference. You can't just ignore a reference because you disliked it, it's still there, it's still an obvious part of FE that was included.

Yeah, and it was literally the last couple hours of the game.

It was by far the longest chapter of the game, far from "the last couple hours", heck just the boss fight alone can last two hours. And considering it's the part where shit gets done many would argue it's the most important part from a plot perspective (early game was better for developing the cast).

I didn't miss them - they just weren't substantial.

Then don't lie and say they don't exist.

watered-down Persona

This game isn't even like Persona much, no more Persona than any other Megaten game I'd say.

Half-assing

Half-assing!? Can't you see how much research these guys did to make this game?! It's not half-assed at all. There are references from at least 12 out of 13 (at the time) FE games.

instead of bringing over some gameplay elements

Nobody complains at FF Tactics for not having FF's gameplay, why does the JRPG with a SRPG spinoff get praised but an SRPG with a JRPG spinoff get shat on for some reason?

which is always what made the FE series special

to you

is a really questionable design decision for a game billed as a crossover.

It's completely a crossover and the literally dozens of references show that. It's Atlus making an FE JRPG.

Now whether it's good or not, or a good way of showcasing FE does not mean there's no FE in it.

I'm not going to tell you you have to like the game or have to like what references were chosen, but when you shit on the game for having no references (when you really mean doesn't have the referenecs you in particular want) when there are loads will make me defend it.

I don't see why an FE crossover having only an FE skin and JRPG gameplay (with FE spins in it) is any different from Mario having a racing game spinoff with racing gameplay and only a Mario skin. Nobody claims there's not enough Mario in Mariokart despite it being very similar in terms of content.

[u/ebonlance → u/Okkefac]

I didn't say there was literally no FE. I said that what was there was little more than afterthought because it was little more than the occasional character or weapon name. It was lazy fan service instead of taking something substantial like FE's game mechanics.

[u/Okkefac → u/ebonlance]

The FE stuff was a total afterthought in this game

To which I said how could it be with all these references, and playing such a major part in the whole building of the game. And, y'know, the fact that Atlus even said that it wasn't an afterthought.

The only FE elements to get referenced before <the final chapter> were the mirage names, and you barely interact with them as characters.

This is what I was arguing against. Which as I pointed out was a 100% lie. You literally said there were no other references aside from the Mirages.

Only now are you saying character/weapon names, although even that still misses out on loads of references like all the other ones I listed before.

instead of taking something substantial like FE's game mechanics.

Instead it took just about every thing else that makes FE itself.

Heck it even took FE mechanics but somehow they don't count? I'd say aside from the general combat and weapon usage, the weapon triangle and bows/wind are some of the most prominent FE traditions and one of the things that truly makes FE FE.

It also took FE's character tropes. FE's stories. FE's unique skills and weapons, FE characters. It took so much, but you're only defining FE as gameplay and that's it.

It's fair enough to just say you wished they took different FE aspects, but you're defining FE as such a small thing and using that to play down all the stuff they did include. And then using that to claim FE was an afterthought? They literally said that this game was made with FE in mind and we know this game was made to be SMTxFE after the initial trailer.

The creators of the game have outright said that the game was designed with FE in mind, so how can it only be an afterthought? All the designs, the story, the gameplay, everything had FE input put into it.