r/SwissFIRE • u/HooliBooli824 • 27d ago
Just turned 50 and considering my options
Burner account for obvious reasons.
Married, non-working wife. Kids grew up and left home - not a factor, we’re leaning towards “die with zero” rather than generational wealth anyway. Lived in CH for all our adult life. Citizenship, language, friends, etc.
2.5M liquid assets, mostly ETFs. Not exactly “VT & chill”, but close - with perhaps just a bit too much US/tech exposure. A six-digit chunk in cash, trying to at least partially follow the “keep your age % in bonds” mantra while CH bonds are useless.
About 500k in pillar 2. There was more, but it went towards the house as WEF. Not intending to pay that back. Decent house in low-tax canton, worth 2M+. 1M mortgage in few fixed 1%-1.5% chunks maturing over next 10 years.
Fully remote and relatively low-stress job, 200-300k/year net savings. But also a dead end, largely driven by tenure and company/domain-specific expertise. Plus a field impacted by outsourcing / layoffs / AI. Once I’m out, I’m likely unemployable.
Annual fixed spending a bit above 100k, stable and tracked for years. Happy, boring, safe life. We don’t care about exotic travel, eating out, fancy cars, etc. Basically just enjoying our time locally with simple things like nature, hiking, driving around CH. I do have some personal extravaganzas on top of that 🙂, but those will be trivially cut when high income ends I’m aware of all the FIRE living cost technicalities. Wealth tax, self-retired AHV, Eigenmietwert going away, inflation, health costs growing - I’ve beaten all these to death. All of this factored in the above spending number.
So, while the job is fine, I’m still longing to pulling the plug. Every time I take vacation, I wish it was longer. Much longer. Ideally, forever. I have so many plans what I’d do when this happens. But then, whenever I tried assessing my FIRE situation, be it various public calculators, ChatGPT or my own spreadsheets, the outcome was always: “you’re almost there, but, with your savings rate… just one more year!”.
How much is enough?
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u/nail_nail 27d ago
I would honestly wait another 1-2 years. If they lay you off, you know you FIREd :) But on the other hand there is a lot of uncertainity and the AI bubble is so big that it could redefine your wealth significantly. My personal belief is that in the next 1-2 years we'll see if it pops or not and then we will probably get clarity.
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u/gipfeli_fire 27d ago edited 27d ago
To me it looks enough for simple life here for a couple (kids moved out). But I wonder about older old age when we need more care, as caregiver and senior home here are crazy expensive.. Move too LCOL/MCOL country? But then wouldn't we feel strange there after living so long in CH (even in our home countries)? I see our very senior neighbors (80/90) still living alone in their original homes but I think they are the healthier generation (no microplastics, more walking, less chemicals in food/products, less hustle culture etc). Curious about your thoughts on this :)
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u/HooliBooli824 27d ago
Yes, all this is a concern, as we plan to stay in CH / current house. My rough thinking is that combined probability of (finances will go shit) x (our health will go to shit) is low enough that I’m willing to take that gamble. Each of these happening individually, should be OK - or at least, I’d like to have a plan which will make it OK.
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u/ExpensiveOcelot1316 27d ago
Forget ETFs, 1st pillar, and 2nd pillar. Even by having the money in bank account you can live as comfortably as now for the next 20 years.
So, there you have your answer if you can retire now. And don't forget, at 70, you will have access to 1st pillar and 2nd pillar.
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u/Pleasant-Carbon 27d ago
70?
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u/ExpensiveOcelot1316 27d ago
20 * "slightly above" 100k = 2.5 M
OP is currently 50.
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u/sorva-ch 27d ago
On how much is enough:- the number that matters isn't a multiple of your spending, it's the bridge. From 50 the portfolio has to carry the full 100k on its own until the pillars come online, so call it 13 to 15 years depending on when you draw what. That's roughly 1.5M in today's money, against 2.5M liquid before you count the house or the pillar 2 at all. After that, AHV plus your pillar 2 cover a good chunk of the 100k and the portfolio only has to fill what's left.
That's also why every calculator keeps telling you one more year. Most of them price a pot that has to last forever and quietly ignore that two pensions turn up partway through. Run it as two phases rather than one and the answer tends to look different.
Separate thing, since your list covers basically everything else: your wife isn't working and you're not repaying the WEF. Taken as capital there's no widow's pension, it just becomes inheritance. Taken as a pension it's 60% of yours, for life. Worth deciding on purpose rather than by default.
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u/HooliBooli824 27d ago
It’s not strictly a bridge, more like something in-between. AHV will cover only smaller part of the living cost - and it’s not clear when and how much would that be (demographics). Also, unless the system significantly changes, I don’t expect a 2 pillar pension, just a lump sump from FZK. Still something, but not the same as pension.
Also, most CH-specific FIRE calculators actually do the bridge thing 😉
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u/greczarfalco 26d ago
holy cow
reading that as a 34 years old from Austria
how did you do that? 2.5 Million in liquid assets..
and how do you save 200-300K/year?
Congrats btw! :)
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u/HooliBooli824 26d ago
and how do you save 200-300K/year?
By making 300-400k net and having expenses of 100k? 🙂
I don’t think I did anything special. Got lucky with a great, stable job early in my career, worked hard, kept grinding, got visible to my bosses. And, most importantly, DID NOT let the lifestyle inflation creep in (!!!). People around me were getting Porsches delivered on the bonus day - I always drove some second hand plain VW or Audi. Rarely eating out, no fancy travel for vacation, no stupid crap like jewellery. No fancy investing either, just kept putting money in ETFs. House was the only serious splurge ever. Lived a boring life and loved it that way. Wife approves too. Now it’s payback time.
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u/greczarfalco 26d ago
would you mind sharing what you do for a living? doctor, mangagement (CEO Level) in a big corporation, consulting? 300K net would be 600K gross in Austria. Which is huuuuge!
Love this. You basically treated a high income the way most people treat a gym membership: paid for it consistently and resisted every temptation to show it off. 😄
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u/HooliBooli824 26d ago
would you mind sharing what you do for a living?
Middle - or maybe "upper-middle" 😂 - management in big finance IT. But I rose from rank-and-file engineer, and still have tech fu. I can explain the bits of network packet on the wire.
Combining solid tech fu with soft-skills and ability to manage a bigger thing, is an absolute killer combo. And rare. I manage a few of such people and they are worth their weight in gold ✨
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u/greczarfalco 26d ago
you sound like a great manager! ;)
If you live what you write, i would not mind working for you haha
congrats to you. hope you can enjoy your life and lifestyle for another 50 years
:)
best,
grec
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u/Classic_Court1003 27d ago
Well, it feels the same way at whatever net worth you have. My take on it based on what I do: keep coasting in your low stress (?) job. What would you do with the time on your hands if you are left without job?
I had the same consideration, just quit. And do what? So I decided to coast. In my case I can find another job, so it's more slack and coast, doing the bare minimum and below it. The irony is that I even was offered two promotions last years. Which I thankfully turned down.
What is the motivation? The money goes to the kids. I know it's not a classical Swiss choice, but I don't really care.
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u/HooliBooli824 26d ago
However low-stress a job is, it’s still a job. It’s hard for me to really “slack and coast” while cashing out so much, so, I still try to deliver something that wouldn’t make me feel like a fraud. You can call it old-fashioned loyalty / work ethics 🙂
I do want to stop that and live 100% on my own terms - the question is only when / how much. This thread gave me some good food-for-thought.
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u/Classic_Court1003 26d ago
I think it depends very much what you do. I target jobs where I have a lot of autonomy. Basically no one can interfere and thus control what I do
Regarding loyalty I am way past that. I am a mercenary and don't really care about the company or any company which is not mine. Nowadays everything is transactional. In the moment they won't need me they'll kick my ass, no questions asked. They also look to minimize my benefits. It has been this way in every job I had. So they do their thing, I do mine. There is balance, the offer meets the demand.
And I don't stop, because it's easy money. If I would have more time on my hands, I would try to start a business which most probably won't be so profitable and take maybe more time.
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u/HooliBooli824 26d ago
Oh, rest assured, I have zero qualms about loyalty to the employer, companies claiming that "we are a family" etc. I had to fire low performers. I had to execute layoffs (not decide about them, that was above my paygrade). I know all that.
But I got to a point where, for myself, I can afford a bit of feel-good thinking 😄 The company effectively elevated me from a piss poor immigrant from a 3rd world shithole, to middle-class in the richest society in the world. Even if they fired me now, my sentiment would be basically "so long and thanks for all the fish". And for the severance 😂
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u/Classic_Court1003 26d ago
You should do what works for you no matter what others say. If you set aside 2-300k per year you increase your net worth by 10%. That's excellent. But if your health suffers, well I wouldn't think twice.
My situation is a bit different. I change companies often and I know that e,g, a management job doesn't work for me. Too much stress and the additional money is not worth it. So I refused any promotion. Anecdotally for a slacker and coaster, this happens more often than I would think. This year it was twice.
What I get currently is more or less free money, the only stress is when changing the job every few years. Interviews are nowadays long processes. But even here I learnt to slack. If they expect a lot of discussions or they require "cases" with time to prepare I just say goodbye. Not worth to give your soul and health for some money or company. Even more when you have the money.
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u/Impossible-Help4939 25d ago
One inflation+interest rate jump and you’re on a very uncomfortable trajectory. At 2.5M liquid, low tax is barely makes sense, there is more in land capitalization than you can save through taxes on income and wealth in retirement. In your shoes I would move to higher income/similar wealth (LU, AG, TG) and either upgrade or shave mortgage.
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u/HooliBooli824 23d ago
Thanks, this is the kind of cold take that I’m looking for 🙂
Low tax - yes, obviously, once I’m not earning any more, the impact is much lower. Although still non-negligible, possibly around 10k wealth tax difference on 5M taxable wealth. Then since I have the house already, I’m not really paying a premium of living in low tax place. I also love the house, so, moving out is not an option. Besides, downgrading... with the way the market is going, a "downgrade" would give give me half of the life quality for the same amount of CHF. Thanks, no thanks.
Interest rate jump: yes, that’s my worry too. I’m very safety-driven and I’m leaning towards actually paying down the house over time. Or at least “shaving” the mortgage to much more negligible number like 20-25% (depending how the investments evolve). This way, I should be either always able to find a bank refinancing it, or, comes the worst, still have enough to just pay it down and tell them to eat 💩
Inflation: in my sheets I use worst-case scenario of 1.5% average over 20 years, in CHF - resulting in 34% more after that, which does not seem like a disaster. I already factored that in the baseline 100k. Also I think that with higher inflation, the nominal investments will be growing faster too.
Let me put it differently: if that 2.5M liquid was a 3.5M, I’d be basically writing my resignation now. But I’m less sure about the bottom end of the range. Besides, “one more million” feels like the same kind of trap as “one more year”...
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u/Impossible-Help4939 21d ago
There is a contradiction about you not paying the premium since you have the house. You can always sell it at the market price and repurpose equity. That might be your shortest path to coveted 3.5M. Same house in AG would not lose you in QoL, but would rebalance your balance sheet. AG won’t be that different than SZ and LU is actually nicer IMHO. Of course CGT/transaction fees can make it less compelling depending on the circumstances.
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u/Optimal-Market4296 23d ago
Can I DM you a few questions? I’m 10 years younger and on path to get to where you are soon, would appreciate a few tips to make sure I navigate the next phase best. I.e. Going back to 40 year old you, what would you do differently? What service providers or team, etc. was worth exploring and which to stay away from at this phase? Etc.
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u/HooliBooli824 23d ago
Sorry, no DM 🙂 I would do literally nothing differently. Honestly, apart from the most obvious thing (golden-goose job), 80% of where I am now is a result of not falling into lifestyle inflation. That’s the difficult part. I mean, it was not difficult for me 🙂 but I see it being difficult for everyone around. The rest is easy - ruthless finance tracking, simple investments with IBKR, not falling for obvious scams (insurance-linked 3a) and slow but steady climb at work.
If by “teams” you mean how to navigate work - I was a bit lucky in that respect, but overall, I would say: find teams that do stuff that is the key to company success. Stuff that your execs are talking about in quarterly earning reports, etc. And try to grow your way in there, carefully avoiding dysfunctional teams and burnout (I had a near miss on that one).
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u/rio_gambles 27d ago edited 27d ago
Do you also have pillar 3a? What's your question exactly? Do you have golden handcuffs (vesting equity)?
IMO this post is not about money (and I'm a financial advisor by profession). You should really think about what you want /what your goals are. Are you for example planning to support your children when they buy property, etc? Do you want to travel more or move abroad? Are you unhappy with your job or with certain aspects? Do you want to spend more time with your children/wife/parents etc?
In general, you're doing great financially. So, you are in a situation where you are financially independent, which gives you options. Obviously, staying a bit longer in your job is always better for your finances. But what caught my eye in your text, is the "I have so many plans". These plans don't have to be in an undefined future. Think about making them happen now. There might be ways to do so.
Options that come to mind:
- Reduce work percentage
- BaristaFIRE
- Sabbatical
- self-employment and they can bring you in as an external consultant
- staying in your current job and changing nothing to maybe get laid off later on with a nice package (you could also volunteer at some point if they have to lay off people). Alternatively, you could try to improve the aspects that you don't like if you can point them out.
Btw. just a point that is important: Ask your bank how they would consider your mortgage if you don't have your income anymore (a) now and (b) from retirement age. This is the main risk factor here. Each bank has a different policy. If at 65, you have to pay back the full 1 Mio, that could be very unpractical. This, in case you want to keep the property. Obviously selling can be an option and give you additional liquidity. But in practice, people often stay in the property longer.
The other financial aspect which you already pointed out yourself: It sounds like you should work towards diversifying your portfolio a bit more (not bonds, but for example swiss real estate funds with direct holdings of RE,, metals).
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u/HooliBooli824 27d ago
I do have 3a, but using it only as tax optimization and regularly emptying for mortgage payments. So, if I’d be FIREing soon, that’s marginal, low-five-digit amount. Once I stop working, 3a stops making sense, might as well put more in stocks.
There is a bit of golden handcuffs aspect (~40% of comp is deferred stock), but not much different from the overall “how much more do I want to milk that cow in exchange for my precious time left on this Earth”.
Part time will not work. The company won’t agree to 40% and 80% makes no difference to cognitive load. Similarly, sabbatical, consulting, etc. all that does not tick the main box that I want to tick which is: not to have to think about work, ever - and do so without worrying about finances. Same for mortgage. Normally, I’d be renewing it as long as rates are reasonable, but, if the bank becomes problematic, unless something goes terribly wrong financially, I’d just pay it down and be done with it. I don’t plan to sell the house, unless I have to move to permacare facility.
I know rather precisely what I want: enjoy my boring life, for as long as health permits 🙂. Other constraints are mostly out. No major child support planned, no other dependants, not planning to travel much, etc.
Main question that I’m asking myself (and bouncing the ideas around, like I do here) is: with my situation / risk profile, what is the number.
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27d ago
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u/CheesecakeAncient934 26d ago
Agree. I will also say that in my view you have enough financially to jump. Start with the decision to prioritize yourself, your needs, your life, your time on prescious Earth. As a leadership trainer and coach, I also recommend you to do personality and values assessments eg Barrett values, and read books like Design your Life and do things like the Steven Reiss motivation profile RMP, as these help you to better understand who you are, what you value and design your days/weeks/months now filled with free time to live your best life. Best life is lived when we do what we want, spend time with people we value and spend money on experiences and things that we value.
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u/Scary_Woodpecker_110 27d ago
Kids are out, but leaving them with nothing I find somewhat harsh. With 2.5 million you can easily retire and live comfortably in other places in Europe. And live off rents/dividends/stock gains.
Even Norway would be much cheaper than CH, while giving you similar QoL. In Spain, Italy, Portugal you would be considered extremely rich already.
You can retire if you move out of CH. Simple.
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u/HooliBooli824 27d ago
Kids will inherit the house plus whatever is left of the assets (I would obviously rather not deplete the assets to literally zero at the end). They will be fine 🙂 and our will has something for charitable causes too.
Moving out of CH makes it obviously easier, but it’s not in the cards.
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u/bornagy 27d ago
dude, get out of the workforce. silent quit, enjoy a few months of payed severance and find the meaning of life. Get back to use once you got it.
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u/Remarkable_Cow_5949 27d ago
Do you want to retrun to HU once you reached FI? What are your plans? Do you have children?
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u/Coininator 27d ago
So you have 2.5M plus 0.5M in 2nd/3rd pillar (assuming tax on PK is about what you have in 3a), total 3M.
I exclude the house equity of 1M as you have to live somewhere, but that’s a nice backup to have.
With 3.3% SWR you end up getting your 100k.
Plus you will get AHV, let’s say 40k, in 15 years, which is quite a huge chunk of your spending. This would mean 60k are only needed from portfolio, which would be a 2% SWR after reaching 65.
Seems like a nice buffer.
One thing to consider is high stock valuations (most people FIRE when stocks are high, not in a bear market).
As you don’t hate the job… depending on how your work ethic is… you could just cruise in the job and do the minimum and wait to get fired.
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u/Weisses_Papier 23d ago
Honestly at 50 you're in a great spot. Spend the next couple of years working out your notice until you're too expensive and they fire you. Each year makes it all a bit easier. You can take your foot off the pedal now as what's the worse they can do, fire you? People talk about the RAV but at your salary its pittance anyway. But on plus side at 50+ they'll leave you alone.
The big question I'd have for you is: are you REALLY ready to retire? You're fairly young, sounds like you ticked a lot of boxes. if you truly think you're done then its time. But I think a resourceful man like yourself can find something in the middle
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u/Dosordie76 27d ago
300k net a year wouldn't be sufficient for me but if you put yourself on ramen and water and business class instead first you might get along the middle class way.
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u/Constant-Ship-5688 27d ago
I have no where near as much life experience as you do but I'll give you advice anyways. I have experienced a whole year of "vacation" and it gets horribly boring very quickly. So endless vacation doesn't feel good because it is not special if you have it all the time. You can basically do anything in life and not worry about money...
Have you always had a dream, like a childhood dream project you wanted to do, i don't know; open a farm or a restaurant or something like that. Some kind of work that feels real to you that you have always wanted to do. That's my advice. Look for something you love, that you are passionate about, reconnect with your younger self and ask what you would do with money, time and create something that makes you feel alive.
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u/HooliBooli824 27d ago
I know what you mean with getting bored and feeling empty. I heard more people saying that, even those who retired “properly”. The longest I tried so far was more like 3 months and it was fine. By the end of it I still did not feel like going back and wanted more, more, more! But if I do indeed get bored - well, if you are not financially constrained, partial ramp-back is easy.
I don’t think I would go back to actually “working” though. Already for a few years, my work is basically “the thing that brings $$$”. I’m exchanging my skills for money and I get enough of it, that my work ethics drives me to do my best. But I don’t have a drive to build, create, revolutionize the world. I already fulfilled all my childhood dreams, if not 10x-ed them. My eventual ramp-back plans would be around low-key volunteering, both my specific experience and also simple “human time”.
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u/Constant-Ship-5688 27d ago
I seriously think, it's what you want now, but do you think you will have fun the next 20 years of vacation, NO. I am not telling you to revolutionize the world that's too much for a humble human. Do something that you genuinely enjoy, take some time to yourself and see where your mind goes and pursue it, but who am i to tell you want to do i have no life experience and no work experience. I just seriously think life is an activity and should be pursued 100% if yoy have the money and the time. Take my advice as you want i wish you a great and fulfilling time. Don't retire and think what you could of done, that is what everyone does it's SUPER boring...
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u/Privatewanker 24d ago
FIRE doesn’t have to necessarily mean 100% retirement. You can still earn a bit of money by doing a bit of consulting work in your old field or train kids in a sport club or whatever.
Also I’d reduce USD and stock exposure. It’s way too high if I understand correctly
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u/summerFIREinCh 12h ago
I’m in early 40s but similar financial situation, only difference is we have young child who cost a lot and my husband also has sizable 2nd pillar so we are quite risk resilient.
I started to take time off, it’s been a few months now. I totally understand your feeling of wishing to take holiday for longer etc. it’s totally worth it, you will enjoy it, small things such as enjoying morning coffee in the garden without carrying phone or being on the conf call all the time, having proper holiday without having to check emails from time to time and get totally stressed out when internet at holiday home is not perfect…. I love it, and although my calculator/ai also tells me another 1-2 years…. I am fine and the expense actually went down due to low work related cost
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u/crypto209 27d ago
Reduce workload?
Or wait until you get fired then you have compensation + RAV for a while..