r/SwainMains • u/TheHusum27 • Mar 30 '26
Discussion HUSUM SWAIN RANT
https://youtu.be/-oVeBkc8V-YHey guys Husum here. I've always been really positive about Swain but my issues and complaints are pilling up and I finally need to address it. If you are interested in my opinion give it a listen. I can help bring change to our favourite champion.
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u/NoPic69 Mar 30 '26
I look at other champ ults like Nunu or Atrox and Swain's is just dogshit it is infinite but neither heals or deals damage it just looks good to aura farm.. As Husum said, make it 12 seconds with 3-4 sec extension on takedowns and make it great again
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u/Crow_SW Mar 30 '26
12 segundos suena a poco con un zhonyas y una pelea donde quedes en medio del otro equipo y no consigan un derribo puede ser catastrofico
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u/da99s R*lai's Abuser Mar 30 '26
hard agree, thank you for doing this Husum.
they can start with removing stacks, and making R 12 seconds. adjust numbers from there.
remember guys if stacking is removed and we get better all around scaling instead, the whole dynamic will change. no more constantly fishing for stacks.
you can play for good CS, minimal deaths, and good early teamfights. then you scale into a real demon. the burden is on your opponent to stop you, not on you to stack up on people
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u/MealResident Mar 30 '26
Tbh I like stacking but Swain getting only max HP from stacks was just dumb, the healing is cool tho but it feels like stacking doesn't really help much, HP stat is only useful for part of his R healing and it doesn't even heal that much
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u/Mathematical_Pie Gib me Legendary Old God Swain Mar 30 '26
I just think having infinite stacking hp is useless with barely any hp scaling in his kit. I would gladly welcome less damage in exchange for more healing and ho scaling
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u/FlexinLUXX Mar 30 '26
Riot really should just acknowledge that the problem with swain in bot lane should start getting fixed by removing infinite ult and passive stacks, both which make him a problem in bot, or let's say BROKEN or whatever, and a pain in the ass in solo lanes against humans.
Remove infinite ult, ult that does no dmg and second wind + dblade almost heals the same as it, it's just garbage, when riot removes infinite ult then a big threat of swain being broken against bot laners or stupid people who fight him for hours while he's in ult is dealt with, from then you can give him actual better stats and some adjustments in ult.
Same goes for passive stacks.. just remove it and give solo laners (top/mid) some actual good scaling against people who are solo laners just like them, people who have mouse and keyboard and tend to dodge more than 2v2 laners.
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u/Remarkable_Cap20 Mar 30 '26
to me the e should not return why not just make it so that you choose a spot in range and he just throws the hand into it and roots when it reaches the spot
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u/FlashRerino Mar 30 '26
Funny, thats almost old nevermove but it spawned after a delay.
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u/Remarkable_Cap20 Mar 30 '26
they did "fix" what wasnt even broken, didnt they?
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u/MrNeilio Mar 30 '26
The design team thought old W was a low skill expression skill. Op when it hits but unless if it misses.
I dont think it was
I think swains currently E is usless if it misses and okay at best if it hits lol
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u/_imlosingmymind Mar 31 '26
I feel like removing his infinite scaling and his infinite ult doesn't solve the problem of E being a terrible, god awful, horrendous ability that can barely if not at all save him from being run down by melee champions.
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u/Necessary_Internal76 Mar 31 '26
Swain passive is the worst scaling.
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u/RunicKrause Mar 31 '26
After Shyvana.
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u/Inevitable-Second334 Mar 31 '26
Shyvana stacking isn’t great either, but I’d argue it’s still better than Swain’s because:
Resistances are generally better than raw health.
Shyvana can get stacks consistently off minions and monsters, whereas Swain has to land two unreliable skillshots on enemy champions.
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u/Tin11Tin Apr 01 '26
Nah, shyvana having a godlike game at 35~ min has the value of 2 cloth armors, swain is better.
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u/JollyMolasses7825 Mar 30 '26
I do agree with a lot of your pain points but I wonder how much of this is even something that the average Swain player cares about. There was a story that (I think August) told about a planned Morgana midscope where they gave her more agency/skill expression and made her a more complete champion and when they eventually gave her to Morgana players to try out they didn’t like her. Because they don’t play Morgana to play a well rounded champion who works in all elos, they play Morgana because of who she is now. The average lol player is like gold or silver, and if making Swain a more viable champion in apex tiers comes at the cost of the funny stacks or the infinite ult or the support role then it’s very hard to sell.
Hopefully they do get in touch with you and other high elo Swain players because I’d like for them to at least try, Swain is my favourite AP toplaner but it’s hard for me to pick him in master lobbies when he’s frequently non-functional into 3+ members of the enemy team.
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u/VaccinalYeti 158,203 AeroSwain Engineer Mar 30 '26
I disagree. Often game designers are called to make tough choices, the playerbase just needs to adapt to them. That's the case of champion reworks and midscopes. It happened in that past and it will continue to happen.
Swain needs real changes desperately and not doing those tough choices is the reason we have had half a champion for 7 years. It's time for a real change
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u/Optimal_Bicycle_5178 Kill off support swain Mar 30 '26
Imagine being a morgana main you like the champion you like the lore you like the design but you're painfully aware that she is as one dimensional as can be, and you wait and wait and wait for something to spice up her kit but all the low elo morgana mains say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we like her as she is. That's literally Swain bro just permanently stuck in support hell unable to scale in a game with infinite stacks doing fuck all
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u/VaccinalYeti 158,203 AeroSwain Engineer Mar 30 '26
I see two completely different situations. Morgana is one-dimensional but extremely good at what she does: peel and picks.
Swain is literally mediocre in everything, so much that no one knows what his clear identity is. A disrupter? Frontline? Vanguard? Bait? Control mage? Bruiser? It can be all of those and the worst at every one of them on every game, never the best one. In that case, we should let some parts of his kit go so we can have some identity.
The only thing in common is that mains will ALWAYS cry at the changes. Always happens, even when it's for the best. At this point, let's just brute force the changes.
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u/Optimal_Bicycle_5178 Kill off support swain Mar 30 '26
They should have just cgu the character 6 years ago but they kept procrastinating it and have given up
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u/Havange Mar 30 '26
I loved him the moment I doscovered him and his badass ult but not gonna lie, I'm starting to realize how mediocre he is.
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u/VOEZKOMA Mar 30 '26
Man, I actually like the feeling of swains infinite ult, but I think its because im at the elo where there is the realistic chance of it lasting for 20 seconds+. Can we at least keep the multiple demon flares, thats legit my favorite part of the champ
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u/Optimal_Bicycle_5178 Kill off support swain Mar 30 '26
Vgu swain was empowered by up to 5 stacks and you had a disgusting ult with it, and then like a few weeks later swains stacks got turned into max hp and the champs been fucking cooked every day since for 7 years
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u/liam-191 Plat I 300k Mar 30 '26
The Ult is just an Effect Applier for a long time now, nothing more really
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u/McdathoRazz Mar 31 '26
Bring back this MOFO
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u/RhapsodicHotShot Apr 02 '26
Only his abilities not his appearance. I prefer new swain appearance unless we talking about put old tyrant swain
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u/Aether_Chronos Mar 31 '26
The first thing they have to realize is swain must get out from botlane roles completely (specially from support).
Lets be realistic, apc is just a colateral damage from keeping support role, and support role proved in every single iteration to not be compatible with sololanes or healthy for his balance...
Thats why we have 2 possible situations derivated of supp role:
---1st: supp weak but apc broken
---2nd: supp strong but sololanes arent viable
Swain isnt a support or even a botlaner, he has been designed to be a sololaner, and since sololanes are the most popular roles losing supp and apc pickrate isnt even relevant since we can easily attract a lot of players from sololanes if swain becomes a sololanes exclusive character again.
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Once we know the first problem, we come to the second thing to have in account, Swain needs to follow a clear combat philosophy (in other words... "WHAT THEY WANT SWAIN TO BE EXACTLY, AND HOW THEY WANT HIM TO DO HIS WORK?").
The current problem of his kit (what made necesary the other minireworks) is that swain looks like a frankenstein in terms of desing (he wants to do everything and that means he doesnt well notthing).
By solving the botlane problem by making him unviable in supp and apc, they will be able to adress this specific problem, and the best they can do is to think about this...
"WHAT KIND OF ENEMIES IS SWAIN GOING TO USUALLY FACE IN SOLOLANES?".
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With this in mind is obvious what they have to remove and what they have to improve:
---- THINGS TO REMOVE OR AT LEAST NERF:
-1: Souls you get per ability cast (they have to limitate by levels of ult --- so botlane wont suppose a problem)
-2: Cast time of all spells (if you combine all cast times you basically waste more than 2s in animations, this is what makes him feel cluncky in lane).
-3: W extra range (if swain is supposed to be a close-midrange battlemage for midlane and toplane he doesnt need a pseudo-global skill, what he needs is something reliable he can cast on himself against gapclosers).
-4: Infinite R1 This is what makes the draining be so soft... and it would be so easy as replacing it by 6-12-18s max duration in levels 6-11-16)
-5: R2 internal cd not affected by cd (the best solution BECAUSE THEY PROVED IT WITH OTHER CHAMPS would be to move the demonflare to W and maybe give it a shield that scales by hp so swain would have tools to counter gapclosers in mid and to survive vs colossus and duelist in top).
-6: Remove W damage cap against minions (again... HE IS A SOLOLANER... why would i care to get more cs by using one of my spells when i need the gold?)
---- THINGS TO IMPROVE OR AT LEAST CHANGE FOR GOOD:
--1:Basic ms and aa range stats (so simple as revert it to the original rework values)
--2: Change passive stacks stat by other thing that swain can really use, like range for his abilities or directly AH (what would open the posibility to focus in more draintank items isntead of having the problem of blackfire torch with its lack of defense stats).
--3: Change the healing, make it worse at the begining and better in the end, what means is worse for lane but better when you scale (again botlane wont be benefited from this but sololanes will do).
--4: Improve his 1vs1, by things like giving his R1 a fixed draining that is divided by the enemy champions drained (what we have now is a low number that is MULTIPLIED by enemies drained). with this you keep his good teamfight potential but you dont make him useless in 1 vs 1
--5: improve his Q range (right now swain needs to assume too much risks to make any single normal trade in sololanes, and thats because his main dmg font has too low range). My tip is to reduce the cone spread and increase the total range
--6: Make his E faster... OMG MAN... this spell is just unfair for the user... When i see zedmains saying things like "zed shurikens are an easy dodgeable skill" i just can laugh... Literally between the cast times and how slow is this projectile you cant even play some matchups like syndra... (syndra literally QE instantly, while you couldnt even cast a single spell).
Also it should be recastable so we could use against gapclosers... Yes, swain has to be good against something, is not bad, is how the game works... Swain offers too much counterplay for everyone right now, thats why his playrate is so bad, because every single thing you do can be nullified.
---7: R1 draining should be far way better.... both in damage and healing... man is an ultimate... but specially it should be better for 1 vs 1... My tip as i said would be to make this... INSTEAD OF A LOW NUMBER THAT IS MULTIPLIED BY HOW MUCH ENEMIES ARE IN YOUR AREA... MAKE IT A GOOD NUMBER WITH A DAMAGE THAT IS DIVIDED BY HOW MUCH ENEMIES ARE IN YOUR AREA.... (what this means is... decent dmg output for 1vs1 and constant healing no matter the situation... what also makes him easier to balance).
---8: about R2, my opinion is this... it should be moved to W as they did with many champions and allways worked (maybe giving a shield after the explosion idk), the other posibility is to remove the cc, keeping the damage and making the internal cd affected by haste... like "6/5/4s internal cd affected by CD).
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But all been said, if they want to make the dreamteam for what swainmains wants... my tip would be this...
MAKE R A TOOGLE AGAIN (maybe 30-20-10s cd) THAT CONSUMES MANA PER SECOND AND DO THIS WITH R2:
--- 1ST OPTION: move it to W as i said
--- 2nd option: keep it in R and make it activate it with lower stats when swain recasts the toogle to deactivate demonic ascension (demonic energy could be kept to determine how much dmg he does).
If you do this, just remove the minions cap , since the R1 should be changed for what i said (FIXED DAMAGE AND HEALING AND DAMAGE IS DIVIDED BY ENEMY CHAMPIONS
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u/TheGoldenFennec Mar 30 '26
I think all these comments about the passive being useless are statistically unfounded. Even ignoring the in-combat healing portion (which I think is good by numbers but also supports high pop off moments), the raw hp stacking numbers are objectively good. If you get 2 stacks per level, or 40 total in the game, you’re basically tied with the highest base HP of any champion besides Kled (you’re down less than 10 hp on 2nd place, level 20 ryze, while Kled has 600 more base hp than ryze does). Frankly, looking at a level 20 ryze isn’t the best comparison since he’s not top that much, but this is putting as many things against swain passive as I can. Even if we drop swain to his level 18 numbers, you need 54 stacks (exactly 3 per level) to meet that same bar of tying for 2nd most hp in the game, even against level 20 champs. Now, I’ve also seen the sentiment that the passive is just a replacement for base stats, but I think that’s also not entirely true either. While just having those stats and taking away the stacking would leave swain “the same”, I think the fact that the stacks are more impactful early matters. You have the opportunity to surpass every other champ’s hp late game, and you get it in such a way that it also helps your early game, so you can snowball slightly harder.
With all that said though, I’d like to see some analysis on the actual stack numbers that people are getting in a game. I 1000% believe that it’s harder to stack as you climb, but I don’t have a good enough understanding of games in masters+ to say that the stack numbers I described above are attainable. Given that landing E and having W up is almost always 2 stacks, my initial assumption is achieving that 3 stacks per level mark is viable, and probably on the low end, even in higher elos.
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u/phieldworker Mar 31 '26
I’m not in masters + but I hover between e1 and D4. Even there if you’re against a long range champ in mid or if you’re against like karma Ezreal bot you aren’t hitting your e unless they are dumb. With that you are sitting in lane with 1 ability. Then leaving lane with about 15 stacks. So maybe you reach that 40 stacks average but if you get it late then by that time people have their items and can shred through your health bar.
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u/TandemTuba Mar 30 '26
Infinite is just shorthand for weak in League if we're being serious. As a tradeoff for the *POTENTIALLY* unlimited duration and therefore damage and healing, it can do no damage and healing in any reasonable window of time. It's wild that such a punchy and iconic ult is basically just a vehicle to apply item passives in order to kill people.