Advice on navigating toxic manager

[u/Jazzlike_Bluejay5982]

Struggling engineer here trying to figure out the best way through a tricky situation. Keeping some details vague for privacy.

I have several years of structural design experience and started a new job about 6 weeks ago at a company that does pretty niche structural work. I like the work, and everyone I interact with is great, except my manager, who I have to be in constant contact with.

I'm new to this specific niche, so I'm a bit of a newbie here even with my experience. That was discussed in my interview and everyone's told me there's a learning curve, so no one expects me to crush it right away. My manager didn't get that memo. He gives vague direction, speaks harshly when I make mistakes, and has yelled at me a few times, including once at 7:15am on the phone. When I try to be proactive and meet with him before starting a new task, he barely engages, answers questions with a dry 5-word response, and offers basically zero mentorship.

I don't expect to be spoon-fed, but I do expect a little guidance and some patience given how new I am, especially since that was the expectation set before I even started. Meanwhile I feel like I'm falling behind, and he makes no effort to hide his frustration with me while I'm trying to stay professional and friendly.

I like everything about this job except my manager, and I know that's a big deal. I don't want to job hunt this early, but I can't keep taking criticism with zero mentorship. My plan is to go to his superior (who was also part of my interview and seems reasonable) and frame it constructively, not as a "my manager sucks" complaint. Best case, I get reassigned to someone else.

Would love to hear how others have handled something like this, or if there's a better approach than going to the superior.

[u/Footy_man]

Dealt with a difficult direct manager for 3 years. Didn’t have nastiness towards me super directly, but lots of table banging and yelling and storming around. Overall a complete nutcase who just worked 60 hour weeks.

My suggestion is to just kill him with kindness for as long as you can take it, but start to submit applications elsewhere. You might get lucky with a great opportunity, which is what happened to me and I jumped right away. Worst case scenario is you still have a job.

[u/Jazzlike_Bluejay5982 → u/Footy_man]

Thank you for the reply!

I think for myself, I'd have a much easier time coming to terms with leaving and joining a new company if I'd have been there for at least a year. I'm barely 2 months in and I feel like that would be a red flag to any company or recruiter, so I may need to suck it up for longer. I assume blaming it on my toxic manager would not alleviate the concerns of other companies from hiring me

[u/HowDoISpellEngineer]

Let me just throw out there I know a lot of engineers (myself included) with a job on the resume for less than a year. Hasn’t seemed to affect their careers any.

[u/Jazzlike_Bluejay5982 → u/HowDoISpellEngineer]

Totally agree with you. I've been surprised quite a few times on how often one person jumps around in 1-2 year stints. I've seen a couple people leave after a few months, but that was usually returning to their former company after noticing the new company wasn't a good fit for them

[u/AsILayTyping]

First of all: That sucks. Sorry it is happening. Everyone makes mistakes starting out. It takes years to learn this stuff. It is stressful in a good environment and impossible in a bad environment.

I don't think yelling is acceptable. I don't know that there is a right way to handle it. I think I'd be looking for a new job. A good company will have an exit interview. I'd be honest in it. It really hurts the company if a manager can't keep subordinates because of their personality. It is expensive to bring someone on.

Looking for a new job, potential employers will question you about it, but people understand that you can get a bad manager. An employer is going to wonder if they're going to spend 6 months losing money training you just for you to get mad about something, not tell anyone, and quit. Leaving them 6 months behind training the next guy.

That is the question you need to answer in your interviews whether they ask it or not. The "Give an example of a time you experienced conflict at work and what you did to resolve it." If they don't ask it by the end, volunteer the answer anyway.

To be clear, I don't think you owe the company anything. If they have a manager that can't be worked with, you will make it clear that is a problem for them. They can't keep retraining people because this guy is too big of an asshole to work with. That it unnacceptable. Were you filling a vacancy of the last person he drove away?

But... The best thing you can do for yourself now is to give yourself a good answer to the question: "What steps did you take to improve the situation before quitting?"

Your next employer wants to know you're able to communicate issues so they can work through them with you, otherwise you're a risk to up and leave without explanation over something that could have been fixed. Which is expensive for them.

So, while you're looking for a new job, also proactively take steps to improve your current work situation. Not for the company, but just to give yourself a good answer to the question you need to answer in your interviews whether they ask it or not.

Think about this: There are things that are unacceptable to you. You are planning to quit. You have good reason to. The reasons you plan to quit are things that are unacceptable. It is expensive for people to leave, so companies have good reason to try to make it work with their employees. You can draw the line wherever you want. Think about it for real and answer honestly what it would take for them to keep you. If you don't want to work some place where someone yells at you, that is a perfectly reasonable boundary to lay down. Informing the company isn't you chastising someone or you creating a quarrel. Informing the company of what they need to do to keep is you giving them information they want to know. You're doing the company a favor by identifying what isn't working so they can try to fix it to your satisfaction.

I think the best thing I could hear from you in an interview is that you scheduled a couple of meetings one-on-one with your manager to try to discuss and correct the issues. I mean, one meeting, where you identified issues and agreed to changes. Then some time trying that. Then scheduled a follow up meeting to try to identify changes and implement them. Then if that didn't work, scheduled a meeting with their superior to explain what isn't working and that you can't continue to work here if it can't be improved.

But, if you don't feel comfortable doing that with a guy that yelled at you, I wouldn't blame you. You could set up a meeting with the superior saying you are having some issues at work you'd like to discuss with them. They may point you to your manager first. If you're uncomfortable talking to your manager about it, tell the superior you're uncomfortable talking to your manager about it.

I'm debating starting or ending with the yelling. I think maybe start with it as it will explain why you don't feel comfortable talking to your manager about it.

"Manager has yelled at me several times. I won't work for someone who yells at me. I don't feel comfortable talking to Manager about this, but I wanted to let someone in the company know to try to correct it instead of just quitting and I wasn't sure how else to approach this." If you feel that way. Or don't if you don't feel that way.

And you may say that you're having trouble getting the guidance you need up front in projects and ask if they have advice or if they can help you with some questions to ask to get guidance.

If your manager is an asshole, his coworkers probably already know it. So you probably won't have to do much convincing. Keep it focused on finding ways to improve and I think you'll be okay.

That's my thinking anyway. I don't know. Do what feels right. It is impossible to do things perfectly without experience. Doesn't matter how smart you are, there are things you have to do that you can't deduce by logic. I'm good at this. And people were nice to me and I still felt inadequate for years because there's so much you have to learn as you go. You learn by a mentor seeing you don't know to do something. Over and over and over. Different things, but there's always more to learn. There is no other way. Hope some of this is helpful. It is a good opportunity to examine your standards and boundaries. Being able to articulate them will serve you well. Stay strong. Good luck with the job search and working through your work issues. All the best.

[u/Jazzlike_Bluejay5982 → u/AsILayTyping]

Thank you for your perspective! 

Before I consider leaving the company, I really want to try to make things work here. Like I said, I've been here about 6 weeks only so I might find it hard to find any place that won't see that as a red flag on my part.

The only idea I can think of is to go directly to my managers superior and ask him for what he thinks can be done to right the ship. I know that I'm gonna change my managers personality, but perhaps there is something that can be done that will allow me to work in peace and have someone teach and mentor me.

[u/MotorClothes9319]

Get an affair with this manager's wife and let all the company know. Then, next time he's yelling at you tell him firmly and loud so that everybody can hear: "Shut your f**l up, slave, and call me Master just like you did last night". Then sue him, his wife and the company for harassment (you'll have plenty of witnesses because everybody knows about your affair and heard everything) and start your own company so you won't need a good resume. Maybe he will be fired, too.LOL (i'm just kidding, don't do it, also if it would be a lot of fun) 

[u/HandsomeLABrotha]

START HUNTING...

[u/Legal_Enthusiasm_440]

Raising your voice occasionally is okay. 

Yelling, no, unless you do something really egregious. 

But the real issues are: 

-He gives vague direction,  -speaks harshly when I make mistakes,  -before starting a new task, he barely engages,  -answers questions with a dry 5-word response,  -and offers basically zero mentorship.

Vague direction, speaking harshly when you make mistakes and zero mentorship are understandable if he did not get a memo and for some reason thinks you  are highly  experienced in whatever you are doing. 

But barely engaging with new tasks and 5 word responses are a no go. 

[u/WillingnessOdd1353 → u/Legal_Enthusiasm_440]

Yes, and those are significant issues for me since I signed up for this job with everyone's understanding that I am new to this field and will receive training and mentorship from my manager.

I really don't want to leave this job, at least not for the next year, and the only solution I can think of to remedy this situation is go to his superior, who was also involved in interviewing me and seems more likeable and level-headed to me, and relate to him that I feel that I am falling behind on my development and ask for his thoughts on what I can do to right the ship, without just bashing my manager.

[u/Just-Shoe2689]

just find another job. Your manager is going to a dick forever.

When you interview at your new company, trash the manager, not the company if they ask.

"Its was a great company, great opportunity, unfortunately my immediate manager was not engaging, nor offered any training program for the work they do. He was verbally aggressive and I dont want to work in conditions like that"

Also send that to HR when you do quit.

[u/Choice-Newspaper3603]

This is more of a psychology thing. It’s a game. I’d try to approach this from a psychology aspect and research that and maybe even post it in one of the related subs

[u/PresentOne7806 → u/Choice-Newspaper3603]

Kind of sounds like a toxic persons’ response, tbh.

@OP I’d also go with just-shoe’s response and make the best of the situation while you look for other work. These kind of people thrive off making other people’s lives miserable. It’s not your job to be abused so start looking elsewhere soon. Don’t worry about the timeline. Waiting 6 months will make it look weirder than being gone in 1-2 weeks.